|01-26-2013 06:44 PM|
Speaking of lighter issue, Anybody ever brew beer before?
I am working on a 90 minute I.P.A. right now. I am scared of the result because I have never tried this complicated of a recipe before, but can't wait to see how it turns out.
Last batch was an Irish Red and it turned out really good.
|01-26-2013 06:36 PM|
So, just throwing this out there. If my views made anybody mad or something I apologize. But like many others on this thread, it probably isn't going to change because of somebody else's opinion.
Unfortunately guns are a subject that mankind will never 100% agree upon.
So like Vroom said, we might as well agree to disagree and leave it at that. Talk about a happier subject, and move one.
|01-26-2013 12:24 PM|
|01-26-2013 11:32 AM|
I started this thread as a point of humor and its degraded into unpleasantness from all sides. Which is counterproductive for ALL...regardless of intentions.
Common sense states...You dont argue with an idiot. You cannot change their mind. Common practice states...idicy is usually a matter of which side of the debate you side with...the OTHER person is always the idiot.
Pragmatism states that you express your point of view. The other person expresses theirs, and whomever can generate the most EVIDENCE to support their position...wins.
Unfortunately...in emotional debates (politics and religion), evidence is the very first thing to get flushed in preference for "gotcha" sound-bites. Guns are an especially volitile topic since they seem to have the ingredients for a religious AND political fight...with a generous sprinkling of conspiracy, hate-mongering and fear-motivations.
The fact is...as we have seen throughout the world, and through out history. If you take the guns away, the bad guys will have fewer guns....Thats a fact. The good guys will have fewer guns...thats a fact. The bad guys will then have a statistically HIGHER power quotient than will the good guys. And in the end, if you take the guns away...the REALLY bad guys...the sickos....just strap bombs to themselves. Thats a FACT. Crazy all ways finds a way.
Once again...we have allowed our attention to be diverted away from the problem... mental health. And onto the symptom...guns, bullying, violence...
Our Bi-Cameral legislature was designed specifically to avoid REACTIONARY governance. But instant media and the clamoring for face-time with the camera to look like they are "Doing something" forces bad things into catastrophic calamities and it becomes a Keystone cops comedy of showing who can make the most grandios gesture of "how much they care" and the polarized tug of war between political idiologies spins into a battle that is more against the other side of the isle than for any particular set of values.
"Whatever the other side says is wrong and in fact is so wrong that I will have to take the most extreme, opposit position possible just to show that I am so much different from them...oh...wait...what were we talking about, again?"
I've often thought that it would be benificial to all if an OP had the power to close the thread that they started once they felt that their question had been answered, or their topic had been exhausted.
If I had that button, I'd push it cuz this issue is done. Neither side is interested in changing their opinions. Neither is actually very interested in the foundations of the opinions of others. This is just serving as a stage for each to wrap themselves in their causes and wave their flag about how right they are and how much of an idiot the other side is.
Find and Fix the crazy...and most everything else falls into place...without needing to circumvent the constitution.
Now....lets all go back to fighting over who has the coolest bumper or how stupid the other guys seat-covers are.
|01-26-2013 11:21 AM|
|01-26-2013 10:55 AM|
|The Green Machine||
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were round
ed up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total... of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
|01-26-2013 10:47 AM|
|The Green Machine|
|01-26-2013 10:00 AM|
I tend to keep my mouth shut on that one, because hi-caps are a really touchy part. I don't particularly oppose legislation limiting sales of them, but then again if I still had any guns I would have more than I would ever need. Statistics show you do not need it for defense.
Of course, making mags once you have an angle and follower templete is not a very advanced skill. Springs can be attached together if ya don't know how to make em. I have even heard of unskilled metal workers making 10rnd stick mags into 72rnd drums.
And I'll be headed to the show tomorrow, getting some inkwork done today
|01-26-2013 09:01 AM|
You can choose to walk away, I have chosen to stand and "fight" with either action or word. But for now, I am off in my jeep to visit a gun show today and see what I see. I'm going to have a GOOD day
|01-26-2013 08:52 AM|
|BlueRidgeYJ||But since there are no more boolits to buy all I can do is beat things with a stick, and dead horses are better than live ones.... lmao...|
|01-26-2013 02:42 AM|
I know, always so contrary...
|01-26-2013 12:40 AM|
|cavediverjc||Guys, I think it's evident that you aren't going to change Ed's mind. He has his opinion and we have ours. His is as "right" as ours. Seems kinda stupid to argue with someone knowing you'll never change his mind to your way of thinking. He has a right to voice his opinion and we have ours. I think we're just beating a dead horse at this point, and I'm sure Ed feels the same way. Maybe we should all just agree to disagree and move on.|
|01-25-2013 03:36 PM|
Okay, forgot about hog hunting, I would definitely want more than one 30 rounder for that. Especially if your are using the .223 round the majority of AR's accept. Hog's don't always fall on the first shot, and you do not want one of those things charging you. And like Doublebarr said, you don't want them getting away either. Those things tear up all the crops, and there can be decent money in hunting them. People, especially farmers, will pay to get them off their land.
Personally I also like the M1 for this, bigger bullet = hopefully the hog drops on the first shot. But the drawback is you only get 8 shots in a clip. And the reloading is kind of clumsy on them. So this sort of supports your argument for more rounds too.
|01-25-2013 02:06 PM|
Well, I think we're in complete agreement then. *shrug*
|01-25-2013 01:51 PM|
Those high capacity magazines and that Tek9 were banned..
Still used it. Cracks banned too, i dont see people stop doing it. Proposing regualtions, especially constitutional rights on the citizens of this United States is tyrannical.
|01-25-2013 01:28 PM|
|01-25-2013 01:17 PM|
When you are eradicating this pest (there is no limit on numbers you can harvest because they are an invasive species and need to be eradicated as much as possible), they run in groups of anywhere form 5 to easily 30 or more in one "herd". The goal of hog hunting is NOT one kill to feed your family, but again to remove an invasive species to protect the native flora and fauna along with the protection of crops and resources for food animal production. When you find a "herd" you want ALL of them dead, because ONE pregnant hog can and usually ends up birthing at least 10 viable piglettes who then go on to reach sexual maturity long before one year of age and then each of them birth at least 10 viable piglettes, who then go on to do their thing. That original hog goes in search of a mate within 2 months of birthing her piglettes and will have at least one more litter in that same year, each of those successive members of the litter then going on to have their own litters. You want to take out the entire group.
One shot, reload, then another shot, reload then another shot if you're lucky then the group is gone into the brush, scrub, hills etc, with a "Traditional" sporting weapon and you better be a good shot to hit all three of those pigs with each of those three shots. If you have a high capacity mag with a "Modern" sporting weapon such as an AR-15 you can shoot (providing you can hit what you aim at and practice) a full mag of 30 or more and take out 10 or more pigs in that same time, thus being much more conservation and environmently friendly, you know, saving habitat and such by getting rid of more of what is destroying it.
So yes Virginia, there is a Sporting reason for a weapon DESIGNED to be more efficient and productive than previous years models, such as an AR-15. AND it is used quite commonly in that application. Many "varmit" hunts are done with AR-15's beyond hogs, such as coyote, fox, gopher and other pest species, and it's not to give the gun a reason for existing, as sportsmen don't sacrifice accuracy and the best tool just to "protect the reputation" of something that is not the most efficient tool.
Want to tell me again, after learning something that I am assuming you didn't know due to the stance you are taking on the tool, that there is only one "valid" reason the weapon exists and it is not necessary nor an actual sporting designed weapon? I wouldn't do that if you want to continue to honestly discuss the topic.
|01-25-2013 01:08 PM|
Turn on and watch the news or do a google search. The media is finally reporting (read: admitting) that the AR15 was located in the car and was never used during the attack...all handgun. Some moron medical examiner, before conducting any autopsy made a comment to the effect of "He must of been using some sort of high power rifle" and the media ran with it.
|01-25-2013 11:53 AM|
|Jiffydarren||Boy, this seems like the right thread for my story. I was out on a boat with my buddy and we had all of our guns with us on the boat and we were going across a lake up in the rockies... it was a HUGE lake... Anyway, some other guy ran in to us and tipped our boat just far enough for all of our guns to fall in to the lake, right in the middle of the lake, and they all sunk all the way to the bottom. Sucks, man I'm pissed.|
|01-25-2013 11:47 AM|
My mistake Blue ridge. I got so hung up on the Assault Rifle thing i forgot it was named after Armalite.
But see what the media does? The news kept calling the rifle used in sandy hook an assault rifle. Now everybody is up in arms about Assault Rifles.
Here's an example of how bad it's gotten. I am watching a concealed carry pistol at auction for my wife. She doesn't like my .45 so we are downgrading to 9mm. Anyways, there is a 5 pack of 30 round AR mags going for the same price as the pistol. That is crazy. Before sandy hook you could get a p-mag brand new for $15, or the used metal military style for $5-10 if you bought them in bulk.
|01-25-2013 11:05 AM|
|Mom sold the Jeepster||Free citizens don't need Constitutional authority to act. Government does.|
|01-25-2013 09:58 AM|
It's like boiling a frog. Drop him in boiling water and he'll jump out. But drop him in cold water, turn the heat up slowly, and he'll just sit there and cook.
And Feinstein is a bee-yotch. Who hires these useless people? Oh yeah- us, the electorate. Yuck.
|01-25-2013 09:41 AM|
As far as the gov't trying to regulate guns.... This is just the start. Just like Australia,China, Germany and others. Right before the S.H.T.F. If you don't like guns. Don't buy them or own them. But don't try to push your views on all when it's only a very few that cause the problems. Criminals and psychopaths will still have them or just find another way.
If you are ok with giving up more of your rights as an American that's fine. But I will not! This is a big one. If it were ever to happen it would continue with more and more until you have nothing. And you would have nothing to say about it and no way to defend yourself or your family. Be ready to be a gov't controlled drone...you might find yourself willing to work for food and gov't supplied shelter, pay ungodly taxes,and just work til you tip over. Could be a little far fetched,but in other ways might not be so far off. Check out how other countries are that are run by dictators and no citizen rights. You stand up for what you believe and the next day you're gone.
|01-25-2013 09:38 AM|
|01-25-2013 09:33 AM|
Viper, AR stands for Armalite, the company Eugene Stoner worked for when he designed the AR10 & 15. Also, all legislation I have seen (except 2 speeches by Republicans) reference them as mags. In 1944 Nazi Germany designed and built the Sturmgewehr 44 "Storm Rifle", more acurately translated "Assault Rifle". This is what the AK, M16, and most other evil rifles call Grandpa.
Ed, columbine was pistols. Plain and simple. And IEDs, which have been illegal for a long time. So was VT. And ONLY pistols - why is this hard to grasp? Aurora had a shotgun (long rifle), pistols, and an AR. Newtown has very conflicting reports, he certainly killed himself with a pistol. NBC reported the AR was in the car while Lanza lay dead inside (but that's a diff conversation). What political assasination has happened with an AR? I can think of one attempt. Since 1944, care to name the pistol assasinations?
Assault Rifles (as you call them) do not pose a threat to the populace at large. Guns do, or they don't. 1 kind does not pose a more serious risk, and if they do police don't need em either.
All this is in addition to the American Ignorance of laws prohibiting a standing national army, the purpose of my right to own military weaponry. It was guns from the armorer, not the gunsmith, that they were talking about. It was B Franklin who petitioned the govt to purchase and hand out military arms to the populace of PA to form protective militias, some 30+ years before he signed the Constitution.
|01-25-2013 07:08 AM|
sorry, i know they aren't trying to take away all of them, i got carried away. I was just trying to make the point that even if they did, it wouldn't stop things like this from happening. There are sick people out there, like you stated, wearing weird costumes and such. And they will find another tool with which to do harm to others.
and yes, i can agree that you do not need a 30 round magazine. If you can't hit a deer with the first 29, then you aren't gonna hit it with the 30th. It just pisses me off that the politicians making up this legislature can't even name the part correctly, which gives the impression that they don't know a thing about the gun they are trying to regulate.
|01-25-2013 02:44 AM|
Yes, there were multiple guns at each incident and some of the killers had additional handguns and magazines that would not be restricted by the proposed legislation, but all of the shooters carried and killed with at least one weapon and/or magazine that would be restricted. I don't know if you meant to imply somehow that they used ordinary, everyday 6-shooters, but it's just not the case.
I have a theory that I'm mulling over about these particular killers...each of them dressed up in a "costume" to do the murders, I believe. They all wore commando-type gear to some extent. The VA Tech shooter sent videos of himself to the news on the day of the shootings, posing and posturing with his gear and guns. The Aurora shooter was head to toe in black tactical gear. The Columbine shooters were into the Matrix look. Not sure about Sandy Hook as reports differ but some said he wore black tactical gear. So it seems to me that there's a fetishistic, macho-fantasy appeal at work here, one that maybe could only be complete if they used the "right" guns. Like I said, not a complete thought but something I'm formulating.
p.s. Viper, is anyone trying to take away ALL the guns? If so, I haven't seen that report.
|01-25-2013 12:44 AM|
The problem with more rules and regulations on gun control, is that only the people that were already following the current rules and regulations are going to follow the new ones.
This will not effect the criminals, that are making a bad name for firearms, one bit. They will get what they want on the black market or from some salesman in a dark alley anyway.
2. Go ahead and ban assault rifles. Push the criminals toward other cheaper guns, like that $180 mossberg shotgun at walmart. Far more dangerous weapon for a shooter to take into a room of people IMO. How about we take away every gun on earth, melt them all down, and make a huge statue out of them. Still won't stop another Sandy Hook. The gun was a tool, they will find another tool. Look at the Taliban and their suicide bombs. And what, pray tell, are all the law abiding citizens going to protect themselves with when that happens? Pepper spray? Stranger danger whistle?
3. An assault rifle has full auto capabilities. An AR-15 is only thought of as such because some dummy decided to name it Assault Rifle-15. The M-16 and M-4 it is modeled after are Assault Rifles, and there are already laws in place preventing people from buying the parts necessary to turn an AR-15 into an M-16.
4. They want to limit the capacity of "clips". The last firearm I can remember that used "clips" was the M1 Garand. Produced in WW2. It's called a magazine Washington. The lawmakers shouldn't be allowed to make any new laws about a gun when they can't even name the parts of said gun. If they think an AR-15 uses a clip, then they don't even understand how the thing works.
I agree with what one of the members said about the gun makers getting rich right now. Go ahead and call up an AR15 manufacturer, any of them, ask how long the waiting list is to get a rifle if you order one today.
My heart goes out to all those who lost love ones in the Sandy Hook attack. There was no excuse for what that guy did. But this has happened before, will happen again with or without a gun. But messing with 2nd amendment rights is going to create far more problems than it solves.
I apologize to any I may have offended but this whole thing is a sore subject. I grew up in the south, learned to hunt with rifles and shotguns. I shoot competitively in CMP and NRA competitions. I'm not saying I'm good at it, it's just what I enjoy doing. The only thing we ever hurt is a piece of paper with a bullseye on it. Taking my right to bear arms would be taking a way of life away from me. But that is nothing, there are many who still live off the land, the only food on their plates is what they hunt. I would love to see how it works out for anyone who tries to take their guns.
|01-25-2013 12:42 AM|
|01-24-2013 11:57 PM|
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