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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 10:57 PM
Ditchdoc Ok I'm going to shut up now and make some boritos.
Today 10:55 PM
Ditchdoc If I remember right I think it's called harmonizing force multiplication and that is a damper works so well on eliminating it because a dampener prohibits the harmonizing of the unsymmetrical motion amplification.
Today 10:55 PM
suicideking I'll also throw in to have your tires balanced. I had some wobble starting a while back and my tires were way out of balance.

GY MTR are known for being difficult to keep in balance.
Today 10:52 PM
JoeBot13
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPi1 View Post
Explain the JK with DW and 1200 miles, cured by installing a new stabilizer... I'm just relating real life information from first hand experience. We deal with a huge variety of jeeps every day. Again, fix the obvious problem first. As a shop, it's hard to sell a customer ball joints, and not fix the problem. I start with the simplest fix first.
Cured or hidden?
Today 10:46 PM
Ditchdoc Gee, and all this time I thought death wobble was cause by unsymmetrical travel of the track bar and steering link and this may sometimes act as a wave generator causing the wobble. Bleh who needs physics.
Today 10:41 PM
JPi1 Explain the JK with DW and 1200 miles, cured by installing a new stabilizer... I'm just relating real life information from first hand experience. We deal with a huge variety of jeeps every day. Again, fix the obvious problem first. As a shop, it's hard to sell a customer ball joints, and not fix the problem. I start with the simplest fix first.
Today 10:23 PM
JoeBot13
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwaxmyjimmy View Post
Nah you need to work out, remember I proved that the other day lol or was that Doug lol. One of y'all couldn't bust something loose and I had to put the man hands on it lol. Do the double wrench trick. Most those bolts are 21mm then throw a 24 mm on the other end for more leverage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Buy a 24" breaker bar. Anchor against the ground like I did here. Now you have 2 hands to lean into/hang on the bolt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKCWLER View Post
I use a 15" crescent wrench which opens to 1-7/8" or the control arm nuts and wedge my foot against the frame. I have HF torque wrenches in 3/8" & 1/2". I have a 35 year old California Tool torque wrench that got out of spec when I let a friend borrow it.
I definitely need to plus up my tools, I have just enough to get me by. But it sure would make my life easier if I had all the right tools. What I do now is pin or clamp the box wrench down then find a place to push against with my feet while pulling the torque wrench. One day I'm going to punch myself in the balls. I think that 24" breaker bar would save my manhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPi1 View Post
First thing to learn about being a mechanic: fix the obvious problem first. A jeep came in about a year ago, new JK, about 1200 miles on it, customer complained of DW. First thing I looked at was the steering stabilizer, which had rock damage. Test drove it, one of the worst cases of DW I've driven. Replaced the stabilizer, drove like new. No need to look at anything else with that low mileage. That customer has since brought it back for complete suspension and requested the Fox ATS stabilizer because his first experience made him a believer in having a good stabilizer. When we have a case of DW now, it's (1) check stabilizer and replace if necessary. Test drive. (2) track bar and all related components, replace or repair as needed. Test drive. (3) Ball joints, check and replace as needed. To this date, we have never had a DW problem we couldn't fix by using this method.
To be honest, after I blew up my stabilizer on Achey Breaky, I ran without one for nearly 3 months until I got around to buying a new one. I have stock steering with high miles, never once in that time without a stabilizer did I get death wobble or even a slight shimmy. I noticed a slight increase in bump steer, but that was it. I did put it back on because it does serve a purpose, but I severely doubt that a bad stabilizer would be the cause of death wobble. By that logic I should have never been able to get above 25mph without my teeth shaking out of my head. A stabilizer's only purpose is to reduce bump steer. If other components are out of tolerance then that bump steer causes oscillation in the axle, aka death wobble. Fixing death wobble with a stabilizer is analogous to fixing a pipe leak with duct tape, really expensive duct tape, sure it will stop the leak for a while but the leak is still there and will need to be plugged eventually.
Today 10:00 PM
Zombiehunta666
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwaxmyjimmy View Post
Yeah those jam nuts are 1 5/16". I was talking about the bolts that attach your control arms to the axles and frame but yes those Jam nuts you need to make sure they are right too
Copy that.
Today 09:57 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPi1 View Post
First thing to learn about being a mechanic: fix the obvious problem first. A jeep came in about a year ago, new JK, about 1200 miles on it, customer complained of DW. First thing I looked at was the steering stabilizer, which had rock damage. Test drove it, one of the worst cases of DW I've driven. Replaced the stabilizer, drove like new. No need to look at anything else with that low mileage. That customer has since brought it back for complete suspension and requested the Fox ATS stabilizer because his first experience made him a believer in having a good stabilizer. When we have a case of DW now, it's (1) check stabilizer and replace if necessary. Test drive. (2) track bar and all related components, replace or repair as needed. Test drive. (3) Ball joints, check and replace as needed. To this date, we have never had a DW problem we couldn't fix by using this method.
Stan what's the purpose of that stabilizer/dampener? Do you check all of the steering with the stabilizer connected or disconnected?
And how come I've ran without a stabilizer for well over a year and never had death wobble till my TRE went bad? It's a jk with apparently over 5" of lift bc some guy tried to tell me my frame couldn't be as high as it is, and no control arms to get the caster in spec. Can you explain that?
Today 09:43 PM
RKCWLER
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBot13 View Post
For me the hardest part is getting the leverage to put 125 ft lbs on some of those bolts ... My box wrenches aren't very long ... Maybe I'll make my own breaker bar/box wrench combo for the track bar and control arm nuts
I use a 15" crescent wrench which opens to 1-7/8" or the control arm nuts and wedge my foot against the frame. I have HF torque wrenches in 3/8" & 1/2". I have a 35 year old California Tool torque wrench that got out of spec when I let a friend borrow it.
Today 09:40 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBot13 View Post
For me the hardest part is getting the leverage to put 125 ft lbs on some of those bolts ... My box wrenches aren't very long ... Maybe I'll make my own breaker bar/box wrench combo for the track bar and control arm nuts
Buy a 24" breaker bar. Anchor against the ground like I did here. Now you have 2 hands to lean into/hang on the bolt.
Today 09:38 PM
JPi1
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwaxmyjimmy View Post
Stan tell me how you would diagnose his death wobble, such as the steps. After you give us your incite, I'll explain why you should NOT need a steering dampener.
First thing to learn about being a mechanic: fix the obvious problem first. A jeep came in about a year ago, new JK, about 1200 miles on it, customer complained of DW. First thing I looked at was the steering stabilizer, which had rock damage. Test drove it, one of the worst cases of DW I've driven. Replaced the stabilizer, drove like new. No need to look at anything else with that low mileage. That customer has since brought it back for complete suspension and requested the Fox ATS stabilizer because his first experience made him a believer in having a good stabilizer. When we have a case of DW now, it's (1) check stabilizer and replace if necessary. Test drive. (2) track bar and all related components, replace or repair as needed. Test drive. (3) Ball joints, check and replace as needed.
To this date, we have never had a DW problem we couldn't fix by using this method.
Today 09:37 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBot13 View Post
For me the hardest part is getting the leverage to put 125 ft lbs on some of those bolts ... My box wrenches aren't very long ... Maybe I'll make my own breaker bar/box wrench combo for the track bar and control arm nuts
Nah you need to work out, remember I proved that the other day lol or was that Doug lol. One of y'all couldn't bust something loose and I had to put the man hands on it lol. Do the double wrench trick. Most those bolts are 21mm then throw a 24 mm on the other end for more leverage.
Today 09:34 PM
JoeBot13 For me the hardest part is getting the leverage to put 125 ft lbs on some of those bolts ... My box wrenches aren't very long ... Maybe I'll make my own breaker bar/box wrench combo for the track bar and control arm nuts
Today 09:20 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiehunta666 View Post
Rubicon Express 3.5" super flex lift and Synergy tie rod with Fox steering stabilizer.
Yeah those jam nuts are 1 5/16". I was talking about the bolts that attach your control arms to the axles and frame but yes those Jam nuts you need to make sure they are right too
Today 09:03 PM
Zombiehunta666
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwaxmyjimmy View Post
Which bolts/nuts are you talking about? You probably need 1 5/16" then. It's a big wrench and kinda awkward but it ain't too bad. Assuming you've got currie steering?
Rubicon Express 3.5" super flex lift and Synergy tie rod with Fox steering stabilizer.
Today 08:17 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiehunta666 View Post
13/16 and 21mm are pretty small for what's on mine. I have a 27 and 32 and neither one fit. Can't quite remember if the one I needed was bigger then 32 or between 27-32. Either way the adjustable wrench I tried to use was to big in terms of the handle.
Which bolts/nuts are you talking about? You probably need 1 5/16" then. It's a big wrench and kinda awkward but it ain't too bad. Assuming you've got currie steering?
Today 07:47 PM
Zombiehunta666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
Motorcycles get High speed Death Wobbles "Tank Slappers" It usually has to do with the Caster, Trail and Steering Head angles. It is usually cured by the addition of a damper. If you think a death wobble is scary in a jeep you ought to experience it at 130 on a motorcycle.
That and steering head bearings.
Today 07:46 PM
Zombiehunta666
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBot13 View Post
I can get a 3/4" drive needle torque wrench into the tight places ... I'll use that and a box wrench
13/16 and 21mm are pretty small for what's on mine. I have a 27 and 32 and neither one fit. Can't quite remember if the one I needed was bigger then 32 or between 27-32. Either way the adjustable wrench I tried to use was to big in terms of the handle.
Today 07:32 PM
Gunner Hahahaha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1srcQMa_0
Today 07:28 PM
HDgasser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
Motorcycles get High speed Death Wobbles "Tank Slappers" It usually has to do with the Caster, Trail and Steering Head angles. It is usually cured by the addition of a damper. If you think a death wobble is scary in a jeep you ought to experience it at 130 on a motorcycle.
Speed wobbles @ 100mph on a dirt bike in the middle of the desert.... Scariest moment of my life.

I might have even pooped a lil... Just sayin.
Today 07:25 PM
Gunner Well it is proper for a race bike so you have quick turn in on the corners. But on the long straights when you wind it up then the geometry is compromised for high speed. Then the damper comes into play. Some of the very best ones are tunable on the fly depending on your part of the track.
Today 07:16 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
Motorcycles get High speed Death Wobbles "Tank Slappers" It usually has to do with the Caster, Trail and Steering Head angles. It is usually cured by the addition of a damper. If you think a death wobble is scary in a jeep you ought to experience it at 130 on a motorcycle.
Lol so I've heard but with proper geometry you wouldn't have to worry about the dampener like you said.
Today 07:14 PM
Gunner Motorcycles get High speed Death Wobbles "Tank Slappers" It usually has to do with the Caster, Trail and Steering Head angles. It is usually cured by the addition of a damper. If you think a death wobble is scary in a jeep you ought to experience it at 130 on a motorcycle.
Today 06:33 PM
JoeBot13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiehunta666 View Post
I find that I cant get a big wrench on half that stuff. Maybe its a jk problem if your getting torque wrenches on...
I can get a 3/4" drive needle torque wrench into the tight places ... I'll use that and a box wrench
Today 06:10 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiehunta666 View Post
I find that I cant get a big wrench on half that stuff. Maybe its a jk problem if your getting torque wrenches on...
I've torqued everything on mine before it's not that hard man. Even if you just do German torque specs (good-n-tight) and use big boxed end wrenches, 13/16 fits most of it, or a 21mm. Most the jam nuts I use, not factory stuff, are 1 5/16". That's for my rear control arms, what will be on my new 1 ton steering, and track bar.
Today 06:01 PM
Zombiehunta666
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwaxmyjimmy View Post

Check all your steering joints with big channel locks. If you can compress the joint any significant amount (more that a 1/16", obviously the more movement the worse) keep an eye on it and probably time to start getting some replacements, drag link ends/tierod ends are what I'm talking about. Check the holes where the trac bar mounts and see if they are ovaled any and check the heim and bushing on the track bar. What I do to check is have someone in the driver seat with the engine running and turn from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock back and forth at a decent speed to look for any movement, then I grab the drag link first and see if it resonates thru it. Then the tie rod, and then the track bar. You might feel a clunk on any one of them or all of them. But if it's steering related you won't feel it in the track bar and vise versa. But also if you've got multiple worn out parts they can compound together. Best thing is check everything, then torque everything to spec, and then check it again using the person steering it while you feel and listen for loose or work components. When I mean everything that's control arms and all when it comes to torquing everything.
I find that I cant get a big wrench on half that stuff. Maybe its a jk problem if your getting torque wrenches on...
Today 05:38 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKCWLER View Post
Then, please, let us know. I have not had DW since I replaced the track bar. I have the RE track bar. I replace the axle side bolt about two months ago with a true 10mm. But I am getting a little bit now. Not much to worry about though. Everything is tight.
Check all your steering joints with big channel locks. If you can compress the joint any significant amount (more that a 1/16", obviously the more movement the worse) keep an eye on it and probably time to start getting some replacements, drag link ends/tierod ends are what I'm talking about. Check the holes where the trac bar mounts and see if they are ovaled any and check the heim and bushing on the track bar. What I do to check is have someone in the driver seat with the engine running and turn from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock back and forth at a decent speed to look for any movement, then I grab the drag link first and see if it resonates thru it. Then the tie rod, and then the track bar. You might feel a clunk on any one of them or all of them. But if it's steering related you won't feel it in the track bar and vise versa. But also if you've got multiple worn out parts they can compound together. Best thing is check everything, then torque everything to spec, and then check it again using the person steering it while you feel and listen for loose or work components. When I mean everything that's control arms and all when it comes to torquing everything.
Today 05:09 PM
RKCWLER
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwaxmyjimmy View Post
The steering dampener/stabilizer is to minimize bump steer. It's when you have worn out steering components or track bar issues that you start getting death wobble. I'm still waiting on stand to offer his expert opinion on how he diagnoses death wobble, shimmys, and shakes. Not starting a pissing contest, just trying to get accurate info out there to educate everyone else. Hoarding knowledge is useless.
Then, please, let us know.
I have not had DW since I replaced the track bar. I have the RE track bar. I replace the axle side bolt about two months ago with a true 10mm. But I am getting a little bit now. Not much to worry about though. Everything is tight.
Today 03:57 PM
iwaxmyjimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
I did a flipped Currie on mine with a Bilstein I believe. It works really good at high speed. I've hit serious ruts at 100 and it just ignored it.
The steering dampener/stabilizer is to minimize bump steer. It's when you have worn out steering components or track bar issues that you start getting death wobble. I'm still waiting on stand to offer his expert opinion on how he diagnoses death wobble, shimmys, and shakes. Not starting a pissing contest, just trying to get accurate info out there to educate everyone else. Hoarding knowledge is useless.
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