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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-08-2013 02:33 PM
mcdull
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodfart View Post
You need Google Earth. Preload the maps over wifi and you're set every time
You can do it will Nokia Map too, this feature has been available for many years. You can select states or countries and I've used it many times in Asia and Middle East (except Israel which for whatever reason map is not available). It will take about 2 minutes to lock your first location if there is no data connection.
03-08-2013 02:08 PM
bloodfart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post

No one is complaining about the digital world. I embrace it and use it all the time...probably more than you do. But I also have my brain as a backup. It takes more to corrupt my memory than a dead battery, a software error, or a glitch on a circuit board. Your iThings may not all break at once, but they can certainly all fail over the space of a few days....or even a few hours. I've lost count of the number of groups with multiple electronic devices that we've had to rescue. When you get lost or break down in the wilderness where there is no cell coverage, and the battery dies in your iPhone, and then dies in your iPad (or you drop it and it refuses to boot up), and then dies in your wife's cell phone as you wander for days attempting find your way back to civilization or at least a water source, you'll be wondering why you never learned to use a compass or map or how to navigate by the stars.
Especially these days when you have a USB port and a 115V outlet, you would geniunely have to be dumb and careless to run out of battery power or gas while wheeling. That's basic preparation. Also, if you are unable to backtrack on your own route, then you've either been smoking crack the whole way out or there is no hope for you as a human being. There is no need for you to take shortcuts or try new ways to get back, you just backtrack on your footsteps, and as long as you half paid attention on the way in you'll be fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
It IS, in fact, sad that someone has to turn on an electronic device to be able to tell where the sun will rise or set...or to find the north star...or even to figure out where in the hell they are. I've lost count of the people with attitudes like yours that we've had to haul out of the backcountry.
Things may be different in the US, but in canadia kids know their east from their west. And again... if you're unable to backtrack on the TRAIL you just came up on, knowing how to read a map is the least of your worries imo. I mean really, you are not backpacking in the backcountry, you should be following some sort of trail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
And those new 3D sat maps that you seem to be so fond of? They are notoriously inaccurate and hard to decipher. The elevation profiles in all GPS devices have always left a lot to be desired. All I can do is chuckle at your claim that they have put topos out of business. There's a reason why every rescue group in the country uses topo maps...augmented by (not replaced by) electronic data.
They are not perfect by any means, you are 100% right here! There have been plenty of times when what looked like a relatively flat area ended up being a huge hill once we got there. But did that trully impact me in a major way? Not really, i could tell that the general area had steep bits so i went in prepared to run into these issues. So if it's even 75% reliable to give you a clear reprezentation of elevation changes, that's still awesome because it leaves some mistery and excitement in actually getting to your destination. Also, having a topography layer on your map app is not hard

But where I think they shine is in the extra details you get from satelite, like being able to see if the trail gets really narrow in some sections or if there are other seasonal hazards like occasional washouts of the trail. Google earth is amazing if you also add the extra layer of pictures taken by users! A lot of times a trail may look easy on both a map and on satelite imagery, but you might find from the pictures posted along the route of your trail that there are downed trees everywhere or that sections have been damaged by mudslides. That sort of information is trully priceless, even if he obstacles have been cleared, and it's only going to get better imo. The apps in the new phones and tablets are basically a swiss army knife of all posibilities, aided by the easy location by gps. Yes you should know how things work, but to what point? Are we gonna refuse to use calculators? Are we still going to teach kids how to adjust a carburetor in case we run into an EMP appocalypse? I exagerate, but you know what i mean
03-08-2013 01:04 PM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodfart View Post
Yeah, yeah, yeah, young people are stupid, dont know anything, and everything should be done like back in the day... Question: do you take them to a slaughter house too, to see where food comes from and learn how we used to get food in the old days?

Complain about the digital world all you want, spend thousands of dollars for all I care, but the fact of the matter remains that while you're still going about it oldschool, us young folks will be miles ajead of you. When i'm out there and i have my iphone and ipad and my fiance has her phone; with the satelite maps of the area we travel in loaded on all 3 devices, i'm really not worried. Why? Coz all 3 are not going to break at once! Rather than wasting 10-20 minutes triangulating and ESTIMATING where i am on the map, the blue dot finds me instantaneously. Also, the new 3D satelite maps have pretty much put toppography maps out of business, since you can see the changes in elevation clearly on your screen.
No one is complaining about the digital world. I embrace it and use it all the time...probably more than you do. But I also have my brain as a backup. It takes more to corrupt my memory than a dead battery, a software error, or a glitch on a circuit board. Your iThings may not all break at once, but they can certainly all fail over the space of a few days....or even a few hours. I've lost count of the number of groups with multiple electronic devices that we've had to rescue. When you get lost or break down in the wilderness where there is no cell coverage, and the battery dies in your iPhone, and then dies in your iPad (or you drop it and it refuses to boot up), and then dies in your wife's cell phone as you wander for days attempting find your way back to civilization or at least a water source, you'll be wondering why you never learned to use a compass or map or how to navigate by the stars.

It IS, in fact, sad that someone has to turn on an electronic device to be able to tell where the sun will rise or set...or to find the north star...or even to figure out where in the hell they are. I've lost count of the people with attitudes like yours that we've had to haul out of the backcountry.

And those new 3D sat maps that you seem to be so fond of? They are notoriously inaccurate and hard to decipher. The elevation profiles in all GPS devices have always left a lot to be desired. All I can do is chuckle at your claim that they have put topos out of business. There's a reason why every rescue group in the country uses topo maps...augmented by (not replaced by) electronic data.
03-08-2013 11:57 AM
Mr.Dave true, if you wanted trails/terrain. I dont know how well the iphone can cache imagery from google earth, but i suppose it would work. I am just saying for navigational purposes on road (which is what he was talking about). And d*mnit....i love that user name.
03-08-2013 11:14 AM
bloodfart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Dave View Post
Here is my opinion...I love google maps on the Iphone, but people ar correct...it sucks anywhere outside of town. I bought one of these, and it is amazing, no cell service needed!

https://www.orangegadgets.com/shop/p...?products_id=1

How these are not popular I will never know, especially with the bigger iphone screens coming out. Iphones are also getting cheaper, they are gonna release the 5s and 6 at the same time come this fall. 6 will have an even bigger screen.
You need Google Earth, not Google Maps. In google earth, the software saves all the map areas you scan over, so you can simply cache the area you're going into before setting out on the trail, so you have it even in areas without cellphone coverage.
03-08-2013 11:11 AM
bloodfart
Quote:
Originally Posted by twxsby View Post
Moabite's right! As for you younger folks, do learn how to use a map and compass. As I watch my 3 girls grow up, they have/will learn things as I did. It seems there is a generation of people who know nothing except how to use the on/off button, and when that doesn't work, they are useless.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, young people are stupid, dont know anything, and everything should be done like back in the day... Question: do you take them to a slaughter house too, to see where food comes from and learn how we used to get food in the old days?

Complain about the digital world all you want, spend thousands of dollars for all I care, but the fact of the matter remains that while you're still going about it oldschool, us young folks will be miles ajead of you. When i'm out there and i have my iphone and ipad and my fiance has her phone; with the satelite maps of the area we travel in loaded on all 3 devices, i'm really not worried. Why? Coz all 3 are not going to break at once! Rather than wasting 10-20 minutes triangulating and ESTIMATING where i am on the map, the blue dot finds me instantaneously. Also, the new 3D satelite maps have pretty much put toppography maps out of business, since you can see the changes in elevation clearly on your screen.
03-08-2013 10:36 AM
Mr.Dave Here is my opinion...I love google maps on the Iphone, but people ar correct...it sucks anywhere outside of town. I bought one of these, and it is amazing, no cell service needed!

https://www.orangegadgets.com/shop/p...?products_id=1

How these are not popular I will never know, especially with the bigger iphone screens coming out. Iphones are also getting cheaper, they are gonna release the 5s and 6 at the same time come this fall. 6 will have an even bigger screen.
03-08-2013 10:15 AM
twxsby Moabite's right! As for you younger folks, do learn how to use a map and compass. As I watch my 3 girls grow up, they have/will learn things as I did. It seems there is a generation of people who know nothing except how to use the on/off button, and when that doesn't work, they are useless.
03-08-2013 09:38 AM
Emoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
Check out the Garmin Montana 600. I've been teaching Land Navigation to one of the country's busiest Search and Rescue groups for more than 20 years and have used countless GPS units. The Montana 600 is now my dream GPS. You can download genuine USGS topo maps (the standard by which all other maps are judged) and detailed satellite imagery...and the screen is big. And yes, it is touchscreen.

Mine is set so that I see the USGS maps when zoomed out to wider angles...and the satellite image when zoomed in closer. It's easy to see trails, spurs, even individual rocks and trees, in the satellite images. And it's nice to see a daytime image when you are out on the trail at night...as we often are with SAR.
Another Montana owner here (650T) and it is a great unit. One of the features that should appeal to us Jeep owners that most car GPS units do not have is that the Montana is WATERPROOF. I wouldn't go diving with it, but having on on a motorcycle riding for hours in heavy rain is no problem.

For that matter, I think that any of the Garmin "motorcycle" units (really just hardened/waterproofed car units) such as the various "Zumo" models, should be given a close look by Jeep people. Having owned a couple of them, I can vouch for their usefulness. There are RAM mounts for dash or windshield.
03-08-2013 07:46 AM
cyclone88 This is EXACTLY what I want to do...for the power routing part at least. I got that Daystar dash mount and want a cleaner way to get power to my phone. Looks like a new project for this weekend!
02-12-2013 11:34 AM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioviper View Post
Do any of the bigger screen (5") Garmin units allow you to load topo maps ?
Check out the Garmin Montana 600. I've been teaching Land Navigation to one of the country's busiest Search and Rescue groups for more than 20 years and have used countless GPS units. The Montana 600 is now my dream GPS. You can download genuine USGS topo maps (the standard by which all other maps are judged) and detailed satellite imagery...and the screen is big. And yes, it is touchscreen.

Mine is set so that I see the USGS maps when zoomed out to wider angles...and the satellite image when zoomed in closer. It's easy to see trails, spurs, even individual rocks and trees, in the satellite images. And it's nice to see a daytime image when you are out on the trail at night...as we often are with SAR.
02-12-2013 11:31 AM
Dammit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioviper View Post
Do any of the bigger screen (5") Garmin units allow you to load topo maps ?
No idea. Are they touchscreen? I'm having a vision of my see-through compass sitting on my iphone while it tries to decide if I want the topo map bigger, smaller, or facebook...
02-12-2013 11:28 AM
ohioviper Do any of the bigger screen (5") Garmin units allow you to load topo maps ?
02-12-2013 11:20 AM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
When using that one, keep it pointed at about 75 degrees on the freeway...and somewhere around 5 degrees on the trails. If lost, please set it to 0 degrees until you figure out where you are.
75?
Keep that up for too long and your secondary compass will point you toward E (for east) instead of F (for forward).
02-12-2013 09:58 AM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dammit View Post
You mean the compass in the speedo bucket, right? That's easy...
When using that one, keep it pointed at about 75 degrees on the freeway...and somewhere around 5 degrees on the trails. If lost, please set it to 0 degrees until you figure out where you are.
02-12-2013 09:49 AM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dew View Post
No its not!


I always keep a roadmap in all my vehicles. Probably end up using them once or twice a year if even that. I guess its a habit I picked up from my dad who always had a Thomas guide in all his vehicles.
Well...I'm not sure if your answer is facetious or just ignorant. It looks like you posted a photo but all I see is a red X. The sun is, indeed, a star...just as every star that you see at night, if you see any, is a sun.

And typical roadmaps are worthless (except as kindling) out on a jeep trail. I almost always have a USGS topo map when in the backcountry. The same USGS topo maps are also in my GPS.
02-12-2013 09:48 AM
Dammit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
Actually, a map is the smart man's gps...coupled with a compass. No one should rely solely on a mechanical device (gps, cell phone, etc.) for navigation...especially on a backcountry trail. Those things have a nasty habit of running out of battery power or simply failing altogether.

The ability to use a map and compass is more important than the ability to turn on a gps. A good map and compass should always be with you on the trail. You should know how to determine a bearing to an object in the field, how to set the compass to follow a certain bearing, and how to transfer either of those to or from a map. Being able to determine your location on a map through triangulation is also a very valuable skill. Knowing where you are usually gives you a good idea of where you need to go.

And there is something to be said for being able to navigate by the stars. The sun is a star. When trying to talk lost people off of a trail, we often tell them to drive toward the sun, moon, etc. Of course, we usually need to have a rough idea of where they are. It didn't help much when a lost person called in once and all he could tell us about his location was that he was "right under the Big Dipper."
You mean the compass in the speedo bucket, right? That's easy...
02-12-2013 09:39 AM
Dew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
The sun is a star.
No its not!


I always keep a roadmap in all my vehicles. Probably end up using them once or twice a year if even that. I guess its a habit I picked up from my dad who always had a Thomas guide in all his vehicles.
02-12-2013 09:22 AM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
A poor man's GPS: a road map. LOL


Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Actually, a map is the smart man's gps...coupled with a compass. No one should rely solely on a mechanical device (gps, cell phone, etc.) for navigation...especially on a backcountry trail. Those things have a nasty habit of running out of battery power or simply failing altogether.

The ability to use a map and compass is more important than the ability to turn on a gps. A good map and compass should always be with you on the trail. You should know how to determine a bearing to an object in the field, how to set the compass to follow a certain bearing, and how to transfer either of those to or from a map. Being able to determine your location on a map through triangulation is also a very valuable skill. Knowing where you are usually gives you a good idea of where you need to go.

And there is something to be said for being able to navigate by the stars. The sun is a star. When trying to talk lost people off of a trail, we often tell them to drive toward the sun, moon, etc. Of course, we usually need to have a rough idea of where they are. It didn't help much when a lost person called in once and all he could tell us about his location was that he was "right under the Big Dipper."
02-12-2013 07:50 AM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
A poor man's GPS: a road map. LOL


Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carver001 View Post
Your words and manor give view to your youth, young soldier. In time you will find a man's oft repeated ability to expertly read a map, navigate by the stars, or even dead reckoning in a moonless night are of little consequence in the face of the ruthless power of the...ANTI-NAVIGATOR, or as I say in polite circles, the wife. It is only the GPS which she will not question and I suspect they share an unnatural bond of the kind not known to the male of the species.
I always have my Atlas with me. My wife gets so mad that I use the Atlas instead her GPS....whatever...
I have an Atlas in each of my vehicles (hers too, but she does not use it)
I also keep several state maps in the the saddlebags of my motorcycle, along with a good old fashioned compass.

With that said, GPS does have its advantages in terms of looking for a specific address or location.....or quickly find other items along the way.
02-12-2013 03:34 AM
flyinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusthol View Post
The google maps on the phone only works if u have service. Out in the boonies my phone won't work. I like the dash pod thing.
If you know where you're going in advance, plug the info into the Navigation app and you can set it to cache the entire route. Note, this works for sure on Android phones. I don't know about the newly released Navigation app that Google finally gave the iPhone guys a few weeks back.
02-12-2013 03:01 AM
bloodfart
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottV63
I use my smartphone and google maps/navigation in the states, but when I go to Canada, data use cost big bucks so that is not an option. The GPS holder on the dash kit above is a great option. Not stuck on the windshield and a little closer to me so I can read the thing. I got a cheap phone holder clip that will take the place of the GPS and fits the dash kit.
You need Google Earth. Preload the maps over wifi and you're set every time
02-12-2013 02:59 AM
bloodfart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusthol
The google maps on the phone only works if u have service. Out in the boonies my phone won't work. I like the dash pod thing.
That's why you download Google Earth too. It caches whatever area of the map that you go over (when you have an internet connection), and only loses eat when you yourself clear it. I scan out on the ipad the area we want to explore at the highest resolution possible, then the built in gps does the rest. It's perfect and costs $0
02-12-2013 01:55 AM
Carver001
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
A poor man's GPS: a road map. LOL


Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Your words and manor give view to your youth, young soldier. In time you will find a man's oft repeated ability to expertly read a map, navigate by the stars, or even dead reckoning in a moonless night are of little consequence in the face of the ruthless power of the...ANTI-NAVIGATOR, or as I say in polite circles, the wife. It is only the GPS which she will not question and I suspect they share an unnatural bond of the kind not known to the male of the species.
02-10-2013 06:19 PM
SilverSport A poor man's GPS: a road map. LOL


Sorry, I couldn't resist.
02-10-2013 05:27 PM
panthermark My wife has Tom-Tom....so that (and our smartphones) is the reason why I passed on nav. On a long road trip, we can take the Tom-Tom with us, and throw it in the underseat lockbox when we arrive where we need to be.
02-10-2013 04:03 PM
ScottV63 I use my smartphone and google maps/navigation in the states, but when I go to Canada, data use cost big bucks so that is not an option. The GPS holder on the dash kit above is a great option. Not stuck on the windshield and a little closer to me so I can read the thing. I got a cheap phone holder clip that will take the place of the GPS and fits the dash kit.
02-10-2013 03:15 PM
MattK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjeupie View Post
I don't understand what you're trying to say here...
He has a street Garmin GPS device for when he's on the road. He will then switch it out to another Garmin device for off-roading that has trail and terrain maps.
02-10-2013 03:10 PM
Sjeupie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carver001 View Post
-The Garmin power adapter is a mini USB. For driving on the street, Jill gets to sit up there (I for one, don't want Jack telling me what to do) and when we're off road, one of the other Garmin products will take power from the mini USB and I should be able to get/make an adapter for the 17mm ball.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here...
02-10-2013 01:09 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusthol View Post
The google maps on the phone only works if u have service. Out in the boonies my phone won't work. I like the dash pod thing.
Good point....
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