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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-11-2009 10:33 AM
jdhallissey Dave nope- not changing lol. Still supporting obama, Because there are still worse things bush passed that screwed me over.
03-11-2009 08:56 AM
Dare2BSquare
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Show me the danger of government.
This is what I was referring to. Jefferson seemed to know that over time governments tend to gain more and more power at the expense of the freedom of the people. We have allowed it. And now we are "paying the piper".
03-11-2009 07:40 AM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare2BSquare View Post
Which one do you not understand?
My understanding is that Jefferson thought government, acting on behalf of the people, should regulate the banking industry and be wary of exactly what has happened over the last 10 or so years. He also seems to think the government should not try to take guns out of the hands of the populous. I’ll evidently have to defer to you regarding IF I understand as you have taken the role of teacher with your rhetorical question.
03-11-2009 07:32 AM
jpdocdave
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhallissey View Post
skeet actually your knowledge of politics and Jupiter are somewhat scary. I am on a jeep forum but I have learned more then just jeep here thanks guys and gals.
the brain washing of the obama voter is taking shape, soon he will see the light.
03-11-2009 03:17 AM
jdhallissey skeet actually your knowledge of politics and Jupiter are somewhat scary. I am on a jeep forum but I have learned more then just jeep here thanks guys and gals.
03-10-2009 09:52 PM
Dare2BSquare
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
OK. Let me restate. Show me the danger of government in the Jefferson quote. We all know communist states gone wild is a real blood bath. We can add to it some fascist atrocities, an inquisition or two, and our own civil war. People love to kill each other and they can bend any ideology to this end—some more than others.
Quote:
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who
are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense
of taking care of them."
Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results
from too much government."
Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and
bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against
tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson
Which one do you not understand?
03-10-2009 09:36 PM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Show me the danger of government. This is specifically a warning against a too powerful banking industry.
OK. Let me restate. Show me the danger of government in the Jefferson quote. We all know communist states gone wild is a real blood bath. We can add to it some fascist atrocities, an inquisition or two, and our own civil war. People love to kill each other and they can bend any ideology to this end—some more than others.
03-10-2009 09:35 PM
Scout
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
As long as we can retain the freedom to have Jeeps as well as the places to drive them.
Yeah, ok cool. I thought I wandered to the wrong forum again. Thanks Skeeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
ya, i was gonna bring this up anyway. jeeps are pretty bad on gas mileage, and they're really effecting our carbon foot print. i think we should ban jeeps all together.
My doesn't leave a footprint because I never drive it!
03-10-2009 09:33 PM
jpdocdave ya, i was gonna bring this up anyway. jeeps are pretty bad on gas mileage, and they're really effecting our carbon foot print. i think we should ban jeeps all together.
03-10-2009 09:32 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout View Post
I like Jeeps. This is a Jeep forum isn't it?
As long as we can retain the freedom to have Jeeps as well as the places to drive them.

ETA: I don't post often in Jeep tech related threads because I recognize that there are far more qualified people here. When I see something I think I can help with I do.
I engage in the political threads because I'm a political junkie and I enjoy a good debate, If my political posts become a problem for the membership or management, by all means say something and I'll gladly tone it down or stop all together.
I don't want to cause problems here.
03-10-2009 09:26 PM
jpdocdave whats a jeep?
03-10-2009 09:25 PM
Scout I like Jeeps. This is a Jeep forum isn't it?
03-10-2009 09:16 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Show me the danger of government.
Communist Body Count

Quote:
Communist Body Count

Scott Manning
December 4, 2006

The following estimates represent citizens killed or starved to death by their own Communist governments since 1918. These numbers do not include war dead. The governments are sorted by body count (highest to lowest).

All numbers are mid-estimates.

While this list is as complete as I have been able to determine, it is evolving. Some numbers are incomplete and there are still five Communist countries that have the potential to kill more of their citizens. Over the next year, each government will be profiled in detail on this website.

A detailed bibliography is listed at the end of this page. Feedback is more than welcome.


Communist Body Count: 149,469,610
border

Rank
Country
1

China Flag
People's Republic of China
Body Count: 73,237,000
1949-Present (57+ years and counting)

R.J. Rummel originally estimated China's body count between between the years of 1949-1987 to be 35,236,000 (Rummel 1994). This excluded 38,000,000 million that died of famine during the Great Leap Forward. After the release of Mao: The Unknown Story, Rummel became convinced that the Chinese government was directly responsible for the famine, thus increasing his original estimate by 38,000,000 (Rummel 2005). 1,000 was added for Tienanmen Square in 1989 (Courtois 1999).
2

USSR Flag
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Body Count: 58,627,000
1922-1991 (69 years)

The body count only covers the years 1923-1987 (Rummel 1996).
3

Russia Flag
Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic
Body Count: 3,284,000
1918-1922 (4 years)

This body count does not include the 6,210,000 killed in the civil war (Rummel 1996).
4

North Korea Flag
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Body Count: 3,163,000
1948-Present (58+ years and counting)

1,663,000 is attributed between 1948-1987 excluding the Korean War (Rummel 1994). 2,500,000 is the mid-estimate for those who starved to death between 1995-1998 (U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea 2006).
5

Cambodia Flag
Cambodia
Body Count: 2,627,000
1975-1987 (12 years)

The body count estimate is complete (Rummel 1994). The offical country name was Democratic Kampuchea during Pol Pot's reign and then known as People's Republic of Kampuchea afterwards.
6

Afghanistan Flag
Democratic Republic of Afghanistan
Body Count: 1,750,000
1978-1992 (14 years)

The body count estimate is complete (Courtois 1999).
7

Vietnam Flag
Vietnam
Body Count: 1,670,000
1975-Present (30+ years and counting)

The body count covers the years 1945-1987 for Vietnam/North Vietnam and excludes 1,062,000 from the Vietnam War (Rummel 1994).
8

Ethiopia Flag
People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
Body Count: 1,343,610
1974-1991 (17 years)

The body count includes 10,000 political assasinations during 1977-1978, 1,000 children killed in 1977, 110 massacred in an Orthodox church in 1975, 80,000 during the civil war between 1978-1980, 250,000 that died in 1982 through Transit Camps, and 2,500 killed in a bombing raid (Courtois 1999). Another 1,000,000 is added for the famine during 1984-1985 (BBC News 2000).
9

Yugoslavia Flag
Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Body Count: 1,072,000
1945-1992 (47 years)

The body count only covers the years 1945-1992 excluding 100,000 from the Tito Partisans between 1941-1944 (Rummel 1994).
10

Chinese Soviet Republic Flag
Chinese Soviet Republic
Body Count: 700,000
1931-1934 (3 years)

The body count only includes the Jiangxi and Fujian provinces (Chang 2005). Although Mozambique has 700,000 to its name, the Chinese Soviet Republic produced more bodies in a shorter time period and the estimate is low.
11

Mozambique Flag
People's Republic of Mozambique
Body Count: 700,000
1975-1990 (15 years)

100,000 civilians murdered between 1986 and mid-1988 (Young 1991) and 600,000 starved to death between 1975-1985 (Courtois 1999).
12

Romania Flag
Socialist Republic of Romania
Body Count: 435,000
1947-1989 (42 years)

The body count only covers the years 1947-1987 (Rummel 1997).
13

Bulgaria Flag
People's Republic of Bulgaria
Body Count: 222,000
1946-1990 (44 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997).
14

Angola Flag
People's Republic of Angola
Body Count: 125,000
1975-1992 (17 years)

The body count only covers the years 1975-1987 (Rummel 1997).
15

Mongolia Flag
Mongolian People's Republic
Body Count: 100,000
1924-1992 (68 years)

The body count only covers the years 1924-1987 (Rummel 1997).
16

Albania Flag
People's Socialist Republic of Albania
Body Count: 100,000
1946-1991 (45 years)

The body count only covers the years 1944-1987 (Rummel 1997).
17

Cuba Flag
Republic of Cuba
Body Count: 73,000
1961-Present (45+ years and counting)

The body count only covers the years 1959-1987 (Rummel 1997).
18

East Germany Flag
German Democratic Republic
Body Count: 70,000
1949-1990 (41 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997).
19

Czechoslovakia Flag
Socialist Republic of Czechoslovakia
Body Count: 65,000
1948-1990 (42 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1968 (Rummel 1997).
20

Laos Flag
Lao People's Democratic Republic
Body Count: 56,000
1975-Present (31+ years and counting)

The body count only covers the years 1975-1987 excluding 47,000 war dead (Rummel 1997).
21

Hungary Flag
Hungarian People's Republic
Body Count: 27,000
1949-1989 (40 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997).
22

Poland Flag
People's Republic of Poland
Body Count: 22,000
1948-1989 (41 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997). Excludes 1,585,000 from ethnic cleansing between 1945-1950 (Rummel 1994).
23

Yemen Flag
People's Democratic Republic of Yemen
Body Count: 1,000
1969-1990 (21 years)

The body count only covers the years 1969-1987 (Rummel 1997).
FrontPage Magazine

Quote:
Eugenics and the Left
By John Ray
FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, September 25, 2003

Everybody now knows how evil Nazi eugenics were: How all sorts of people were exterminated not because of anything they had done but simply because of the way they had been born. And we have all heard how disastrous were the Nazi efforts to build up the "master race" through selective breeding of SS men with the best of German women -- the "Lebensborn" project. Good leftists today recoil in horror from all that of course and use their "Hitler was a conservative" mantra to load those evils onto conservatives. But Hitler was a socialist. As he himself said:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

So it should come as no surprise that Hitler's eugenics were an intergral part of his socialism and that the great supporters of compulsory eugenics worldwide in Hitler's day were overwhelmingly of the Left. Left-influenced historians commonly blur the distinction between a belief in eugenic or dysgenic processes and actually advocating a state-enforced eugenics program but we can find the facts if we look carefully. And it was American Leftists upon whom Hitler principally drew for his "inspiration" in the eugenics field.
03-10-2009 08:29 PM
2much
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Show me the danger of government. This is specifically a warning against a too powerful banking industry.
read the op.
03-10-2009 08:19 PM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2much View Post
I think that was me, I don't think Adam Smith a Thomas Jefferson have competing veiws, they both realized the danger of government.
Quote:
"Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than
standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the
banks, will deprive the people of all property until their children
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Show me the danger of government. This is specifically a warning against a too powerful banking industry.
03-10-2009 08:17 PM
2much
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Someone made a post with Adam Smith quotes to support the idea that we should not regulate business. I followed up with that Jefferson quote to make the point that we have always had competing ideas. Even if you decide to exhume the founding fathers you find they had differing ideas. I tend to find this quote from Jefferson particularly prescient at the moment.
I think that was me, I don't think Adam Smith a Thomas Jefferson have competing veiws, they both realized the danger of government.
03-10-2009 08:13 PM
jupiterboy Have a look at the Glass-Steagall Act.

Quote:
As a collective reaction to one of the worst financial crises at the time, the GSA set up a regulatory firewall between commercial and investment bank activities, both of which were curbed and controlled. Banks were given a year to decide on whether they would specialize in commercial or in investment banking. Only 10% of commercial banks' total income could stem from securities; however, an exception allowed commercial banks to underwrite government-issued bonds. Financial giants at the time such as JP Morgan and Company, which were seen as part of the problem, were directly targeted and forced to cut their services and, hence, a main source of their income. By creating this barrier, the GSA was aiming to prevent the banks' use of deposits in the case of a failed underwriting job.
There were a series of meltdowns from the late 19th century through the depression. This is one of the acts that was repealed based on the lobby efforts of Phil Gramm financed by UBS.
03-10-2009 07:27 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
To repeat, we had this same crisis a hundred years ago. Laws went on the books in 1907 making the moves that created this mess illegal. The laws were know and lobbyists were payed. Politicians did the dirty work and took the laws off the books so it could happen again.

It is the same old scam, brushed off and made bigger and better.
Which laws specifically would have prevented this?
03-10-2009 03:20 PM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare2BSquare View Post
Yes it is. Maybe he copied it from one of your previous posts.
I’m old, but not that old.
03-10-2009 03:18 PM
4point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare2BSquare View Post
Yes it is. Maybe he copied it from one of your previous posts.


Good one........
03-10-2009 03:16 PM
Dare2BSquare Yes it is. Maybe he copied it from one of your previous posts.
03-10-2009 03:08 PM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare2BSquare View Post
Well, if I did, then I would give you credit. Who did you copy it from? I recieved the whole thing intact in an e-mail from a friend today.
Someone made a post with Adam Smith quotes to support the idea that we should not regulate business. I followed up with that Jefferson quote to make the point that we have always had competing ideas. Even if you decide to exhume the founding fathers you find they had differing ideas. I tend to find this quote from Jefferson particularly prescient at the moment.
03-10-2009 03:06 PM
jupiterboy To repeat, we had this same crisis a hundred years ago. Laws went on the books in 1907 making the moves that created this mess illegal. The laws were know and lobbyists were payed. Politicians did the dirty work and took the laws off the books so it could happen again.

It is the same old scam, brushed off and made bigger and better.
03-10-2009 03:05 PM
Dare2BSquare
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
I think you copied that last one out of one of my previous posts.

Well, if I did, then I would give you credit. Who did you copy it from? I recieved the whole thing intact in an e-mail from a friend today.
03-10-2009 03:00 PM
jpdocdave thats amazing, its that simple, and its obviuosly not something new.
03-10-2009 02:56 PM
jupiterboy I think you copied that last one out of one of my previous posts.
03-10-2009 02:39 PM
Dare2BSquare
Tommy Was A Wise Man!!!

Quote:
"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe,
we shall become as corrupt as Europe."
Thomas Jefferson

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who
are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it
goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the
wars of the world."
Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense
of taking care of them."
Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results
from too much government."
Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
Thomas Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and
bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against
tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the
blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

And here's a Very Interesting Quote:
In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read
what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

"Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than
standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the
banks, will deprive the people of all property until their children
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
You tell em, Tommy!!!!!

Go to it, Jupiterboy!!!

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