|09-07-2013 09:55 AM|
|08-29-2013 07:41 AM|
|08-29-2013 07:14 AM|
|03-06-2013 12:27 PM|
|02-24-2013 11:50 AM|
|Jkrgv||Read back a few threads I wrote the info in a bit more detail. It bolts on directly|
|02-24-2013 11:06 AM|
Visit the dyno sheets. Then post something of relevance
|02-24-2013 08:36 AM|
|schnizdawg||There use to be an old trick of drilling a bunch of half inch holes on the bottom half of the air filter box to increase flow and give that sound you are looking for from a CAI. I did this on a buddy's miata like 15 years ago and the results were amazing. It sounded just like the CAI on my car at the time. Has anyone tried this? It's a free mod and may fulfill all of those who are interested simply in the gargle of a CAI. If you are going to attempt this, ONLY drill the bottom half of the air box to look like Swiss cheese! If you drill holes in the top half you are bypassing the filter. That would be just plain stupid.|
|02-24-2013 08:09 AM|
|02-24-2013 06:14 AM|
|doufus1||CAI = Waste of money|
|02-23-2013 05:22 PM|
|02-23-2013 03:02 PM|
|ohioviper||Food for thought. In many cases less restrictive intake and exhaust can lower torque.Back pressure in an exhaust and smaller intake can increase low end torque.|
|02-23-2013 02:57 PM|
|Jkrgv||I know you were not trying go come across negative. I just wanted 3.8 owners to know we can still hope. We wish we all had 3.6 motors. But then I would still want to get it to 300 + hp. Oh well. 😃👍|
|02-23-2013 01:53 PM|
|02-23-2013 01:33 PM|
|Dmactampa||Interesting thread. I have the Airaid CAI. What was I expecting to get from it? A little deeper sound, and that's what I got. We're talking 8hp at best. What is 8hp going to do? Nothing but improve hwy gas mileage, which happens to be countered by any wind or hill you may hit. Torque should be the focus because that's what gets you moving. More torque, faster vehicle. Horsepower helps the motor power through the shift to throttle into the torque band. Even still we are talking a few lb ft at best. My opinion in the CAI is to complement an aftermarket exhaust to deepen the tone. If you're looking more more than that you'll be disappointed.|
|02-23-2013 01:13 PM|
|Jkrgv||I know the 3.6 is different not all of us get 285 hp out of the box. We have to work to get there and we still have a hard time getting close.|
|02-23-2013 10:40 AM|
|02-23-2013 08:39 AM|
|Jkrgv||I have an 08 jku with modified exhaust, superchip programmer(set at 93 performance), k&n complete intake system. I'll be the first to tell you it made a difference. I have in the past 8 months been reading posts and gathering info about install a dodge Viper throttle body on a 3.8. I want to tell you this is a great mod. The TB on the viper is much larger, bolts on directly, plugs in directly, and does not set off any warning lights. It was the cherry on the top of all the other mods. I have not put it on a dyno, but my rear end knows!! Lol. Really it's not an expensive mod the TB new from dodge dealer will cost 149-175 depending on dealer.|
|02-18-2013 02:25 PM|
|02-18-2013 01:31 PM|
Hmmmm, this sounds so.......strangely familiar
|02-18-2013 12:05 PM|
"In the case of the Challenger, a more aggressively designed intake air system is the enabler for the 13-hp (9.7-kW) increase vs. the other longitudinal fitments, allowing an airflow increase from 214 to 220 g/s. "
If you read through, the differences come in the intake manifold (2 designs) and the "intake system" (which could really only mean the tb, intake tube design and size, filter and airbox design and size.
But before people start running out hoping to get 13hp increase it should be remembered that there is a difference between engine hp and hp at the WHEELS! Manufacturers put the engine on a dyno, where we meassure the power coming from the wheels! Taking drivetrain loss into account as well as the fact that in normal conditions we're not revving our engines that hard, we end up with usefull power increase of pretty much what we saw in the jk that got dynoed
|02-18-2013 10:07 AM|
2011 Pentastar is Chrysler's new do-it-all V6
Pentastar Engines: Overview and Technical Details
|02-18-2013 09:23 AM|
Fellows & Ohio - you're not wrong about the torque. The P-star does its best work up high - the top end of the dyno chart, between 5000 rpm and redline, is generally where you see those 20 extra ponies between what we run in our JK and what someone in their Charger is running.
As to longer intake runners and the like - sure, that might be a efficiency loss in terms of the added flow, but if you provide less turbulent air to the actual engine it could be an efficiency gain in terms of how the engine actually breathes.
Yes, ECU tune is important - you just need to make sure the hardware supports the tune. Lots of folks tune their engines differently depending on the model. The Camaro and Firebird featured downtuned LS1 engines in my youth because no one wanted a pony car, f-body or whatever you call 'em running with anything like the BHP found in the 'vette. Porsche similarly neuters the Cayman to avoid a confrontation with the 911. BMW uses the exact same I-6 engine in different states of tune in everything from the 1-series to the 7-series. Granted, that wears a turbo and is easily tunable, but you cannot help but get a little pissed when you realize BMW gave your engine another 20-25 ponies in a different tune for different model.
@Bloodfart - not sure on cams. I think there are two different head designs, so that could be a factor. Does the compression differ between P-start tunes?
Honestly, I bet you could take the P-star in the JK and throw in different heads, new throttle bodies, freer flowing intake, redesign/swap the exhaust manifold, eliminate the cats, upgrade the exhaust, adjust the valve timing, and then re-match the fueling and ignition timing for an engine producing substantially more power than the stock offering across the RPM range - though you'd want to trailer that rig. For the ROI, you'd be better off going with forced induction - so I believe.
|02-18-2013 07:31 AM|
|02-18-2013 05:08 AM|
I would imagine the change in manifold is more for design and placement of the intake pipe and air cleaner than anything.I would also venture a guess that the reduction in hp in the wrangler is a marketing ploy to keep people that buy Chargers ect from getting pissed when they read the a Jeep has the same hp as them.Or possible that while using the same engine in several different models they want to make it appear unique while it is not.
In other words no secret sauce just smoke and mirrors. Tune the ecm to what they want and market.
|02-18-2013 03:46 AM|
So why would Jeep bother putting a different manifold on the Wrangler? Would it be to exchange high end power for low end torque? It's important to know the purpose the vehicle is going to be used for before rigging everything on the engine to mimic a performance car.
Also, there is more to it then just assuming all restrictions are bad. Maybe in the 70's this was true, but now if you were to lose the catalytic converter you'd lose low end torque and your engine would actually run worse without EGR. Some cars come with variable length intake runners, if all restrictions were bad, why would they bother with the longer intakes?
|02-18-2013 12:14 AM|
|02-17-2013 11:55 PM|
|ohioviper||I think its the obvious many are overlooking. The tune on the ecm is where the power is at.|
|02-17-2013 11:22 PM|
|02-17-2013 11:02 PM|
The only thread I saw linked in here with actual numbers was the one for PieFace - I can go back and read it again, I suppose, but I got it the first time - even traded some PMs with him during and after.
PieFace really went the extra mile to make that data available - and what it ought to tell all you super savvy engine builders, tuners, racers and all around knowledgeable fast guys is that when Chrysler says the key difference between the different states of tune in the different 3.6L engines is primarily down to the intake manifold it might be worth listening. And if you want the link to that, I recommend Google-Fu.
Seriously, ask yourselves how it is that this engine makes 20 more ponies stock in another vehicle after you look at the dyno curves we're all so in love with. Look at the chart PieFace put up - it doesn't take a genius to realize the 3.6 chokes to death in the Wrangler around 4500 rpm. If you want it to really breathe and make the power it's capable of you're going to want to do something about that - and by something I mean you're going to need more than just a filter that feeds more air to an overly restrictive intake system.
If you want an intake upgrade, great, buy one. If you want a new exhaust, great, buy one. However, don't slap on a few parts that marginally increase airflow by addressing components other than those most restrictive in both the intake and exhaust and then talk about all the magic happening.
Maybe I'm jaded, but it's pat. I've read enough periodicals in my life to recognize something - that lots of folks adopt the exact same writing style when they take their personal views to the internet. From motorcycles, to BMWs to Jeeps everyone loves to rave about their "butt dyno" and "throttle response" - you could literally interchange the proper nouns for the same article/review and derive most everything that has even been written about filters, exhausts, tuners, chips, cats, throttle bodies, whatever.
So, call a spade a spade - if you want to enjoy the great sound and the extra handful of ponies, go nuts. Don't throw up the "WRX does this" and "my 'Vette gains XX HP" smoke and mirrors - maybe they did, but I don't see the data and it's not germane in the slightest. I love the name calling and the sensational claims as much as anyone in these threads - but, please, if we're going to natter on about hard data can we actually have some?
Does anyone have any idea what the actual mass flow rate is on the JK's intake? Do we want to guess that maybe it's around 213 or 214 g/s and that, perhaps, the 305 hp tune flows around 220 g/s? I'll go out on a limb - we know the 3.6 is offered with two intake manifold designs. One tune on the 3.6 develops between 286-292 bhp and the other is around 305 bhp - would it not be reasonable to conclude those intake manifolds might have something to do with that?
If it were me, and I really wanted more power out of my 3.6, I'd be looking really hard at how to get the higher flowing intake manifold under my hood - then I'd worry about whether I needed a snorkel, a CAI, and new filter, whatever. Better yet, get forced induction and really start to make some power where you actually use it.
|02-17-2013 10:30 PM|
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