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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-02-2013 04:10 PM
joe002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
Well I tried to make sense of your post, or rather the logic of the Jeep engineers purposely assuming temperature is related to speed/distance, but I failed miserably. Einstein might understand, or then again your tongue might have been deeply in your cheek.
OK, I left out this part... The sensor is up by the front of the grill. The Jeep engineers are assuming that if you aren't driving fast enough, long enough, then the sensor is just picking up the heat from the engine so the temperature will be off, so they didn't want complaints that the temperature reading was too high and decided to not display the temperature reading.
03-02-2013 04:02 PM
ratchettt
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe002 View Post
That's another Jeep engineering thing. If you aren't going fast for a certain distance then the engineers decided that the temperature sensor can't possibly be right so they don't update the display. When you're wheeling you don't hit the speed/distance thing...
Well I tried to make sense of your post, or rather the logic of the Jeep engineers purposely assuming temperature is related to speed/distance, but I failed miserably. Einstein might understand, or then again your tongue might have been deeply in your cheek.
03-02-2013 03:21 PM
joe002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
...Heading off the trail, someone asked on the frequency what outside temp the JK's indicated. Well, everyone who responded had low, morning temps. The original guy then said that for some reason, when 4L is selected the monitor freezes the then outside temp until disengaged. I verified this twice. Of course this is no serious thing, just nuts...
That's another Jeep engineering thing. If you aren't going fast for a certain distance then the engineers decided that the temperature sensor can't possibly be right so they don't update the display. When you're wheeling you don't hit the speed/distance thing...
03-02-2013 02:26 PM
ratchettt
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
Yeah, it is one of those things that I'm "mad" about...but not "hurt" enough to want to go to court over it.

Of course I feel the same way about our 368 watt sound systems that are really not 368 watts....or my heated seats that don't won't turn on until the vehicle is warmed up when it is below 20 degrees..... Maybe Chrylser is banking on my apathy.
Hummm. Was unaware of sound system power discrepancy. FYI, my seats fire right up when cold. Guessing, your seats must have a problem?
03-01-2013 11:52 AM
jadmt I was one that did not like how the auto worked on my 2013 at first and thought it was messed up but now I think it is perfect and I personally think it does work how it is supposed to ie how is is designed to work.
03-01-2013 11:11 AM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
Thanks for the PM. I hadn't checked back to the thread. Wanted to answer within the thread. Chrysler sent word via my dealer that the transmission is operating as it is supposed to. I say according to whom or what? Not the Owners' Manual. Nothing more the dealer says he can do.

Anyway, that's the last and final word. My only recourse is to litigate or try to live with the transmission. So far I don't need a law suit to deal with. Almost consulted with our town's most aggressive law firm about a class action. Realistically, I figure there is language somewhere about specifications subject to change without notice, and again I have enough business issues in this economy to not add to the pile.

AND please please advise if the rumored aftermarket fix becomes available. May I ask where you got this info?

-Joe
Yeah, it is one of those things that I'm "mad" about...but not "hurt" enough to want to go to court over it.

Of course I feel the same way about our 368 watt sound systems that are really not 368 watts....or my heated seats that don't won't turn on until the vehicle is warmed up when it is below 20 degrees..... Maybe Chrylser is banking on my apathy.
03-01-2013 11:04 AM
90mph
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
AND please please advise if the rumored aftermarket fix becomes available. May I ask where you got this info?

-Joe
I was surfing Jeep sites while traveling and lost connection during flt. I haven't been able to find article again. Will post here if I hear anything.
03-01-2013 08:30 AM
ratchettt
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90mph View Post
Any updates on this situation, I hate this transmission.
Thanks for the PM. I hadn't checked back to the thread. Wanted to answer within the thread. Chrysler sent word via my dealer that the transmission is operating as it is supposed to. I say according to whom or what? Not the Owners' Manual. Nothing more the dealer says he can do.

Anyway, that's the last and final word. My only recourse is to litigate or try to live with the transmission. So far I don't need a law suit to deal with. Almost consulted with our town's most aggressive law firm about a class action. Realistically, I figure there is language somewhere about specifications subject to change without notice, and again I have enough business issues in this economy to not add to the pile.

AND please please advise if the rumored aftermarket fix becomes available. May I ask where you got this info?

-Joe
02-28-2013 12:32 PM
90mph Any updates on this situation, I hate this transmission.
11-04-2012 04:18 PM
ratchettt
Took my transmission off road- Cullman Alabama Jeep Jamboree

I had a rare opportunity, for a rookie, to put my Jeep to the test, while being watched over by expert Trail Guides during the two days of the Cullman Jamboree, Nov 1 & 2. So I want to end my comments with my experience and overall feelings.

First, I'm pulling no punches. After traversing a ridge in 4L in 4 manual gear(I have the auto trans) we were advised via CB radio to expect a right turn for a steep descent. I tapped the paddle left to downshift to 1 (where I learned to start a descent with Hill Descent Control engaged, and then upshift as the hill allowed). Nothing happened. All had been well all day. I was locked in 4. After attempts to shift to N, R, and P did not help, several times I engaged D and found I was in NEURAL! I was always finally able to get 4 low engaged, but sweated it. Checked 4WD shift lever to see if it had popped out, but it was perfect. Made it down. Shutdown the engine. Turned ignition on and off three times without starting. Stared engine and all was normal again all day.

Heading off the trail, someone asked on the frequency what outside temp the JK's indicated. Well, everyone who responded had low, morning temps. The original guy then said that for some reason, when 4L is selected the monitor freezes the then outside temp until disengaged. I verified this twice. Of course this is no serious thing, just nuts.

On the highway headed home my ESC malfunction warning light came on four times. It stayed illuminated and the cruise control did not work. After stopping 4 times, cutting engine and short wait, the light would relight after engine start and then extinguish a short time later. The last stop and restart cured the problem for the last 100 miles to base.

So now. As a previous poster to this thread said, the auto trans of the 2013's in 4L shifts as did the 2012's. In the end this was paramount to me. He was right. For hill climes I used 3 manual, did the driving, and let my auto shift UP and DOWN as needed without my input. I'm willing to put up with anything for this. The vehicle, despite ALL the "it's a Jeep thing" quirks is totally awesome. I bonded with my vehicle and forgive all its quirks for the unreal performance. Attention to detail. Attention to detail is needed, but you couldn't tear my Jeep out of my hands right now.

So I think I have been converted, won over, baptized into the faith.
10-31-2012 03:50 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
My dealer called today with Chrysler's final word, which is a change was made to the ERS shift pattern between 2012 and 2013. This was not news to me. There is no plan to furnish a fix.

So I'm dropping the issue. Nothing more will happen unless Chrysler receives enough complaints, at which point I guess the squeaking wheel will get greased. They'll come around in time to tidying up dealer knowledge and correcting the Owner Manuals to agree with fact, I suppose.

I could write paragraphs about this walkaway, but I'm through.
That really sucks....
But what can you do.

I'm still waiting on Chrysler to update the Owners Manual on the tow ratings for the 2012's with autos....but I guess they have other things to do.
10-31-2012 03:32 PM
ratchettt
Caveat emptor

My dealer called today with Chrysler's final word, which is a change was made to the ERS shift pattern between 2012 and 2013. This was not news to me. There is no plan to furnish a fix.

So I'm dropping the issue. Nothing more will happen unless Chrysler receives enough complaints, at which point I guess the squeaking wheel will get greased. They'll come around in time to tidying up dealer knowledge and correcting the Owner Manuals to agree with fact, I suppose.

I could write paragraphs about this walkaway, but I'm through.
10-30-2012 01:41 AM
ohioviper
Quote:
Originally Posted by tractorshop View Post
The window stickers that I have seen may have a clue. The parts content section towards the bottom of the sticker has a line for the transmission. On the 2012's that I have seen, the source is DE (Germany?), the 2013's has US as the source. Anyone else noticed this?
My 2013 says DE.And it shifts the same as other posters 2013.

Copied from my window sticker pdf.

FOR THIS VEHICLE:
FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT:
TOLEDO, OHIO, U.S.A.
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN:
ENGINE:US
TRANSMISSION: DE
10-29-2012 10:59 PM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhard426 View Post
It's Like people don't know what the difference between a Manual and a Auto is ... I have never know any Manual Transmission in this World to shift back up to a selected gear......LOL , It will however down shift when in Manual mode so if you forget to do it , so you won't lug down the engine when you go to take off....... That is like that for the people out there that don't know how to drive a manual.....LOL again...
Not sure how long you have been driving but I drove my first manual some time around 1971 and I believe the first automatic I owned was some time around 2000 and have owned several of both since that time until know. I am guessing. none of the 3,4 or 5speed manuals ones I ever drove or owned shifted down or up on their own and none of them ever would easily slip into 1st from top gear without some major effort.
10-29-2012 10:50 PM
rockhard426 It's Like people don't know what the difference between a Manual and a Auto is ... I have never know any Manual Transmission in this World to shift back up to a selected gear......LOL , It will however down shift when in Manual mode so if you forget to do it , so you won't lug down the engine when you go to take off....... That is like that for the people out there that don't know how to drive a manual.....LOL again...
10-29-2012 02:10 PM
Geoscene The 2012 models were supposed to switch to the non-Germany sourced models but quality control issues forced Jeep to delay the switch to the 2013 - as an owner of a 2013, that doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling!

Although the design is almost identical between the two (Germany/North America)the software must have been substantially changed. As I mentioned earlier, I like the new manual function but I can understand others frustration with the documentation mistake. Jeep certainly needs to fix that.

If the two transmissions are virtually identical, it might be possible to re-flash the transmission part of the software back to the 2012 version. Jeep may not do this however, especially if Daimler has copyrighted that part of the code which is very likely. It would mean that Jeep/Chrysler/Fiat would have to re-license the code which could be pretty expensive.
10-29-2012 02:10 PM
tractorshop I just picked up our new '13 Rubicon this morning and read what Silverton34 wrote about the transmission programming. I had already noticed that in 2Hi the trans. operated in autostick type shifting if using it manually and just figured that was the same for Lo range also. Not so, as Silverton34 says, it operates in ERS mode, forgot to try 4Hi. Wow!
10-29-2012 01:38 PM
panthermark You are talking two different issues.

Not having a "lock-out" is a different issue than how the software works.

Not having a lock-out button or gate to prevent the passanger's knee from downshifting you is indeed an issue.

How the software works (2012 vs 2013) seems to be up how the driver feels about it.
10-29-2012 01:20 PM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
If I tap mine at highway speed it will shift to 5 or maybe 4 depending on rpm. Will experiment some more.
oh I believe if you hold it to the left it will shift all the way to 1st.
10-29-2012 12:58 PM
ratchettt
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
no go out and try it, get going about 70 in drive and then tap the shifter to the left 3X's and watch your rpms go sky high and your vehicle come to a sudden slow down due to engine braking. It is the same as if you shifted a manual from 6th to 3rd and dumped the clutch. It is not an issue when I am alone but when you have a passenger you have to tell them to be careful. My wife's purse pressed against the lever causing the downshift. I actually do like how it works other then
that.
If I tap mine at highway speed it will shift to 5 or maybe 4 depending on rpm. Will experiment some more.
10-29-2012 12:50 PM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
Definitely have talked to dealer, and they to Chrysler. Want to be fair and give my dealer and Chrysler more time. As to your issue, you are saying there is no RPM limiter that prevents this dramatic accidental downshift? Or that it needs resetting if there is?

no go out and try it, get going about 70 in drive and then tap the shifter to the left 3X's and watch your rpms go sky high and your vehicle come to a sudden slow down due to engine braking. It is the same as if you shifted a manual from 6th to 3rd and dumped the clutch. It is not an issue when I am alone but when you have a passenger you have to tell them to be careful. My wife's purse pressed against the lever causing the downshift. I actually do like how it works other then that.
10-29-2012 12:26 PM
ratchettt
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
Have you talked to anyone at jeep/chrysler about this? I originally hated how it worked as my earlier posts have indicated but after a month and 2500 miles I have gotten used to how it works and no longer give it a second thought. My biggest beef with it now is that a passenger can unknowingly downshift to any lower gear no matter how fast you are going. I think there should be some kind of safe guard so it can not be downshifted say to 1 or 2nd while doning 75 or 80 mph. I think that should be a safety recall as could cause an accident if you are in heavy traffic and all of sudden get shifted into 1st at 75mph.

Definitely have talked to dealer, and they to Chrysler. Want to be fair and give my dealer and Chrysler more time. As to your issue, you are saying there is no RPM limiter that prevents this dramatic accidental downshift? Or that it needs resetting if there is?
10-29-2012 12:11 PM
ratchettt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverton34 View Post
Granted it is an over-engineered system for the '13 Wranglers. The engineers that wrote this program were trying to be cute but failed. Look at the manual mode in GM trucks, it's simple, it works perfectly. Now that I have driven my '13 more and know exactly HOW it works it is ok but it really takes more thought to drive in manual mode than it should. And by the way, 4lo completely changes the operation again. The trans in 4lo operates exactly as the '12 did in 2hi, go figure. You just can't make some of this crap up.
OMG! I haven't had the opportunity to get off road enough to know this. Thanks for the heads-up. This is important operational info. I assumed wrongly both modes were the same. So 4hi operates as 2WD protocol on the2013's while 4lo uses the 2012 protocol?? We are going on a two day off road event this weekend, and I will be prepared thanks to you.
10-29-2012 10:32 AM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy Brown View Post
This happened to me twice on two seperate test drives. The salesman hit the shifter.

I doubt the will fix this. They may change it to a lockout button on the shifter for 2014. Thats my guess.
That would work for me and should be an easy retro fit too boot. It seems with how finicky the NHTSA is they would require it.
10-29-2012 10:13 AM
Lucy Brown
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
Have you talked to anyone at jeep/chrysler about this? I originally hated how it worked as my earlier posts have indicated but after a month and 2500 miles I have gotten used to how it works and no longer give it a second thought. My biggest beef with it now is that a passenger can unknowingly downshift to any lower gear no matter how fast you are going. I think there should be some kind of safe guard so it can not be downshifted say to 1 or 2nd while doning 75 or 80 mph. I think that should be a safety recall as could cause an accident if you are in heavy traffic and all of sudden get shifted into 1st at 75mph.
This happened to me twice on two seperate test drives. The salesman hit the shifter.

I doubt the will fix this. They may change it to a lockout button on the shifter for 2014. Thats my guess.
10-29-2012 09:54 AM
Silverton34 Granted it is an over-engineered system for the '13 Wranglers. The engineers that wrote this program were trying to be cute but failed. Look at the manual mode in GM trucks, it's simple, it works perfectly. Now that I have driven my '13 more and know exactly HOW it works it is ok but it really takes more thought to drive in manual mode than it should. And by the way, 4lo completely changes the operation again. The trans in 4lo operates exactly as the '12 did in 2hi, go figure. You just can't make some of this crap up.
10-29-2012 08:53 AM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchettt View Post
To Geoscene and Silverton.

I am glad you like the 2013 operation(by the way, Silverton, my auto downshifts sometimes and sometimes remains in same gear on manual downshift). Anyway, I don't like the 2013 protocol.

I hope you will grant me that the OM's of 2012 AND 2013 describes the correct ERS operation is as 2012 actually operates. Something happened in the software and dealers and buyers were NOT informed. I did not get what was expected or advertised. Any cop-out on Chrysler's part that specifications are subject to change without notice, which is what I am expecting to happen, is just that, a cop-out. Legal, not ethical. The re-flash should be provided to those want it.

And I am truly happy you are happy.
Have you talked to anyone at jeep/chrysler about this? I originally hated how it worked as my earlier posts have indicated but after a month and 2500 miles I have gotten used to how it works and no longer give it a second thought. My biggest beef with it now is that a passenger can unknowingly downshift to any lower gear no matter how fast you are going. I think there should be some kind of safe guard so it can not be downshifted say to 1 or 2nd while doning 75 or 80 mph. I think that should be a safety recall as could cause an accident if you are in heavy traffic and all of sudden get shifted into 1st at 75mph.
10-29-2012 08:43 AM
ratchettt
This is not about preference

To Geoscene and Silverton.

I am glad you like the 2013 operation(by the way, Silverton, my auto downshifts sometimes and sometimes remains in same gear on manual downshift). Anyway, I don't like the 2013 protocol.

I hope you will grant me that the OM's of 2012 AND 2013 describes the correct ERS operation is as 2012 actually operates. Something happened in the software and dealers and buyers were NOT informed. I did not get what was expected or advertised. Any cop-out on Chrysler's part that specifications are subject to change without notice, which is what I am expecting to happen, is just that, a cop-out. Legal, not ethical. The re-flash should be provided to those want it.

And I am truly happy you are happy.
10-23-2012 01:49 PM
Geoscene Nice observations.

Don't you just love computer controlled everything? Somehow I just can't get rid of the image of the Airbus plowing into the trees at the end of the runway during the airshow because some engineer didn't imagine that anyone would fly one in the airshow with the wheels down, close to the ground and want to do anything but land. Or how about the Patriot missle that followed the Scud into an apartment building in Israel because someone didn't have a good topo map or forgot to tell the Patriot missle system that intercepts below ground level don't count....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverton34 View Post
Having owned a '12 Rubicon and now a '13 Rubicon the trans programing is completely different between the two. I have not driven my '13 much for the first two months of ownership and put only 115 miles on it. Thursday I loaded it on the trailer and went to Colorado and over five days put 600 more miles on it in the mountains. The new trans program works well in a couple ways. You now have the ability to take it out of D and lock it into the gear the trans is currently operating in. If it is in third going up a steep grade you can pull it to the right once and it will leave D and go to 3 and keep it there till you slow down. When in manual mode it will hold the selected gear MUCH better than the '12 or any auto trans I have ever driven. The only way it will leave the selected gear is to slow way down or complete full throttle acceleration. You can have it in any gear and 90% throttle without it downshifting on its own which is handy on long grades. The fact it downshifts at very slow speeds and doesn't go back up to the selected gear is something to get used to but the ability to hold a gear and not have the darn thing downshift with heavy throttle pressure makes up for this strange behavior. After driving in manual mode over varying roads you will understand EXACTLY why it does what it does in all respects. Do I like it? I think so, just takes some getting used to. Would I go back to the '12 programing? Not on your life! The '12 cannot be put in manual mode without dropping one gear, sucks completely.

One other issue. After driving my '12 for significant periods of time in 4lo the trans would go into brain lock if neutral was used and require a restart of the engine to be able to move forward. I showed this operation to the dealer using the video function of my phone and received a complete blank stare in return. The video showed me trying drive and reverse and nothing happening, simply stuck in neuteral. Also shifting between 4hi, 4lo and 2hi and no difference, all well documented on three different videos. After reviewing the videos Chrysler Corp engineers said I didn't shift the shifter completely into drive or reverse. These idiots couldn't believe the manual rocking motion from side to side meant the shifter was in drive. My new '13 is experiencing similar issues in 4lo where you lose ability to move completely till you rev the engine or turn it off and restart. When in drive you rev it to 2k and it drops in HARD. It's hard to resist touching the throttle when the shifter is in drive and the trans acts like it is in neutral. Instinct is to rev it just a little but the Jeep almost jumps off the ground when it finally decides to go into gear all by itself. Since this is 4lo it is worse.

I really love Jeeps but have absolute hatred for Chrysler and their piss poor engineering. Some of the stupidity is just shocking!
10-23-2012 11:36 AM
Silverton34 Having owned a '12 Rubicon and now a '13 Rubicon the trans programing is completely different between the two. I have not driven my '13 much for the first two months of ownership and put only 115 miles on it. Thursday I loaded it on the trailer and went to Colorado and over five days put 600 more miles on it in the mountains. The new trans program works well in a couple ways. You now have the ability to take it out of D and lock it into the gear the trans is currently operating in. If it is in third going up a steep grade you can pull it to the right once and it will leave D and go to 3 and keep it there till you slow down. When in manual mode it will hold the selected gear MUCH better than the '12 or any auto trans I have ever driven. The only way it will leave the selected gear is to slow way down or complete full throttle acceleration. You can have it in any gear and 90% throttle without it downshifting on its own which is handy on long grades. The fact it downshifts at very slow speeds and doesn't go back up to the selected gear is something to get used to but the ability to hold a gear and not have the darn thing downshift with heavy throttle pressure makes up for this strange behavior. After driving in manual mode over varying roads you will understand EXACTLY why it does what it does in all respects. Do I like it? I think so, just takes some getting used to. Would I go back to the '12 programing? Not on your life! The '12 cannot be put in manual mode without dropping one gear, sucks completely.

One other issue. After driving my '12 for significant periods of time in 4lo the trans would go into brain lock if neutral was used and require a restart of the engine to be able to move forward. I showed this operation to the dealer using the video function of my phone and received a complete blank stare in return. The video showed me trying drive and reverse and nothing happening, simply stuck in neuteral. Also shifting between 4hi, 4lo and 2hi and no difference, all well documented on three different videos. After reviewing the videos Chrysler Corp engineers said I didn't shift the shifter completely into drive or reverse. These idiots couldn't believe the manual rocking motion from side to side meant the shifter was in drive. My new '13 is experiencing similar issues in 4lo where you lose ability to move completely till you rev the engine or turn it off and restart. When in drive you rev it to 2k and it drops in HARD. It's hard to resist touching the throttle when the shifter is in drive and the trans acts like it is in neutral. Instinct is to rev it just a little but the Jeep almost jumps off the ground when it finally decides to go into gear all by itself. Since this is 4lo it is worse.

I really love Jeeps but have absolute hatred for Chrysler and their piss poor engineering. Some of the stupidity is just shocking!
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