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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-25-2013 12:19 PM
BoarderMX HiMoab,

I too have the full bestop soft doors on my JKUR and also experienced the "blow-out" effect in strong winds as they came stock.

I found this video and followed the instructions, use a bench vise and bend the frame inwards on all 3 legs. This makes them kind of like the rear doors, but you don't bend them in enough so that you have to hold the rear corner out to shut them like the rears come from bestop.

Since the mods I no longer have flapping on the front door lowers and the tops stay put up to 70 mph like the do in the video. They are still way overpriced for what you get but this has made them far more tolerable in daily use.

Here is the video:
How to make your Bestop soft doors quiter. - YouTube
04-21-2013 09:45 PM
Moabite I installed the Rockhard 4x4 Oil, Transmission and Dual Catalytic Converter skid today...pretty easy install. The oil and transmission pans seem pretty vulnerable on the JK. I've heard the oil pan is about as beefy as a soda can.

I've attached some before and after photos from the rear and from the front. The skid is the new design. The previous design (every photo I've seen on their website and elsewhere) included an uncovered hole to access the oil drain plug. The new design includes a sizeable bolt-on access plate.

Hopefully, the Mountain Off-Road muffler skid will be here next week.
04-18-2013 05:06 PM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by octagon pilot View Post
Hey Moabite!

Enjoy checking out your stuff, and the pics are very easy on the eyes.

Audio question: knowing what you know about the stock sub, would it handle more power? I would like to punch up the low end a bit, but need to stay in the stock enclosure and grill if possible...thoughts?

many thanks
Personally, I don't think the stock sub is worth amping. It's paper crap and I'm sure it won't handle much power. But you could always try. It's not that difficult or expensive to switch out the sub and still keep the stock enclosure. I hope to finally get around to replacing my sound bar and dash speakers in the next couple of weeks. When I do that, I'm going to switch the sub wiring to 8 ohm and see if it helps. Right now, as I've said, the gain on the amp is set not much above zero and the bass in the HU is turned way down...bass is still too powerful at higher volumes.
04-18-2013 11:08 AM
octagon pilot Hey Moabite!

Enjoy checking out your stuff, and the pics are very easy on the eyes.

Audio question: knowing what you know about the stock sub, would it handle more power? I would like to punch up the low end a bit, but need to stay in the stock enclosure and grill if possible...thoughts?

many thanks
04-14-2013 01:23 PM
Moabite Here are a few photos taken in my driveway the other day...mainly to show those interested in the Tuffy #275 enclosure how it looks installed. I'm EXTREMELY impressed with it...secure, easy to install, easy to remove.

It turned out to be the perfect size for me. I'm amazed how all the interior mods fit like they were pieces of a well-engineered puzzle. I was worried that the Tuffy might hit the Trailgater table when closed...but it clears it by at least an inch. The Trailgater clears the modified subwoofer by a fraction of an inch when the tailgate is closed. And the freezer fits between the back seat and the Tuffy enclosure with about 2 inches to spare. The bottom fronts to the soft doors fit in the tray on top of the Tuffy like it was designed for the doors. The rest of the soft door pieces easily fit inside the Tuffy, if necessary.

The soft doors have been removed as I mentioned above. I did email Bestop with my concerns about the safety of their doors. They appear to have chosen to ignore that email. I've bought some 1/2-inch steel rods that I will be securing to the lower soft door frames later this week in an attempt to eliminate outward flexing of the upper door. I'm going to try JB Weld at first. Hopefully it will hold in this application. Regular welding might be problematic since the door skins are sewn onto the cheesy 3/8-inch door frames.
04-10-2013 10:48 PM
jdwallsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
Here are a couple of photos with the new Bestop 2-piece soft doors installed...one taken yesterday on the Fins 'n' Things Trail.

The doors definitely increase the fun factor of the jeep. They offer a lot of freedom. You can go from full to half to no doors in a matter of seconds...and vice versa. All 4 tops and the bottom rears store in the Tuffy Security Deck with room to spare...while the bottom fronts fit perfectly in the tray on top of the Tuffy Deck.

I had to do a lot of bending of the metal frame to get the doors to fit tightly. They are a bit of a pain to close but it's something I can live with to gain the convenience. I haven't decided yet if they will stay on all summer. They've been on for about 10 days.

There is a LOT of wind noise with these doors, especially with the jeep totally enclosed (top on, windows closed). It's virtually impossible to listen to the stereo at anything over about 50 mph. But open a window or fold back the Sunrider top, and they are actually pretty quiet.

My only real complaint about them is that the front uppers start leaning out at the top at speeds above about 50 mph...enough to see an inch or so of daylight. I had half doors on my '03 Rubicon with regular soft uppers and also some sliders. There was no such problem with either of those. I know some people have started using a velcro strap to keep the uppers from leaning out. It's a good thing I don't go over 50 mph very often. At slow speeds, they seal very well.

It seems that Bestop could have engineered these much better. There is a small gap at the front bottoms of the doors which could have been taken care of by simply designing the metal frame correctly. Everyone with these doors has mentioned that gap. Weather stripping sometimes has to be tucked into the door opening before closing the rear doors...or you end up with weather stripping showing outside the vehicle and a less than perfect seal.

But overall, I'd have to say I'm pleased with them. Yes, there are problems. But at this time, they are the only doors available that offer the full/half/no-door options and the ability to store all the pieces in the back of the vehicle.
Jeep is looking good Moabite! It is really coming along. I have the tuffy deck in my garage waiting for my jeep which is almost here! I am just starting to look at audio, and will consider your sub setup. What I am really interested in is any updates on your lift tire combo. I am leaning that way - maybe 285/75s - any words of wisdom?
04-10-2013 02:08 PM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowerumble
Wow. That is crazy! I have never read reviews of these yet. Thanks for the info guys! Will take it into consideration if I decide to get a set.
Don't get me wrong. I really like them, if i didn't I'd sell them. I just wish someone made something similar of higher quality, safety, and performance! Or... If these were priced accordingly for china construction they'd sell em like hot cakes.
04-10-2013 02:05 PM
Lowerumble Wow. That is crazy! I have never read reviews of these yet. Thanks for the info guys! Will take it into consideration if I decide to get a set.
04-10-2013 01:07 PM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite
After a rather scary drive to town yesterday, I'll be taking the Bestop doors off until it gets substantially warmer and I won't really need the uppers. I'll probably send an email to Bestop about safety concerns with these doors.

I was seriously concerned that the wind would rip the tops of the doors right off yesterday. Wind speeds were probably sustained at about 25 mph with higher gusts. There were times when I slowed down to 25 mph in a 45 mph zone simply because the tops of the doors were leaning out so far. For much of the 26 miles to town, I had one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand trying to hold the top of the driver's side window from leaning out and becoming a kite.

I am going to look into welding additional braces onto the bottom halves of these doors. I had half doors on my '03 Rubicon and used regular soft uppers and also the glass sliders. Each of those were very sturdy and there was never the slightest problem with them separating from the door frame even at 75 mph into a stiff headwind.

For the price Bestop charges for these things, you'd think they would be engineered a LOT better.
I feel your pain. Bestop shut down its manufacturing plant in Golden, Colorado and outsourced to china. That's why the old soft doors were much better and the new doors leave a lot to be desired! I could go on and on for days about them. I called them and gave them constructive criticism and they could care less. The owners of outsourcing companies that have a monopoly in the market with their product (like these Bestop soft doors) only care about money, and could care less about the people they put out of work and the near junk quality product they put their company name on. I know someone who works there still and its NOT pretty.

But like you stated already, you get convenience with them. They are they only ones out there that I know of that do what they do. I do a fair amount of long distance traveling with them. Here's my best tip (I know its illegal) but I get the headphones that go into your ears and act as ear plugs and play music and I check my mirrors regularly to attempt to maintain a standard of safety lost from he earplugs (actually you can't hear anything with those soft doors on anyway)! Most of the time I just tune it out with no music (it takes a lot of getting used to)! I wedge winter hats in the front doors behind the frame bars and between the fabric to minimize the obnoxious flapping and slapping of the fabric.

When I do long trips Denver to Phoenix (I pass right through your town) it gets really windy. So windy it bends those crappy mirrors I bolted on for towing straight down! The doors flex open at the top all the time. I've been able to get my whole hand out on some of the most windy days. You'll get used to it. I'm not happy about about the quality but they are what they are. They just jeep the weather out- kind of! When I get to the backcountry Arizona trails, the inconvenience is worth it when I just toss the doors in my popup camper and head out!

Let me know if you would like to meet up and grab a bite or just chat when I head through Moab next week. I have some other mods to the doors that I don't have pictures of yet- rope retainer straps, bungie straps to hold the windows open front and back while at highway speeds, etc.

These doors look cool and do function (at a minimum level), but leave a bad taste in your mouth for what you get in relation to cost.

OH, and since I remember reading about your reputation of clean Jeeps and washing frequently- YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE DOORS OFF EACH TIME YOU WASH IT TO DRAIN THE RUBBER GASKET CHANNEL OUT. INVERT THEM SEVERAL TIMES TO GET ALL THE WATER OUT OR THEY RUST UNDER THE GASKET AND BEHIND THE CANVAS. I called Bestop to let them know and they could care less. Luckily my go to shop warrantied them and Bestop sent me new front lowers.

PM me if a meet up is in the cards for you, thanks.

Attachment 234402



Attachment 234403
04-10-2013 12:10 PM
Moabite After a rather scary drive to town yesterday, I'll be taking the Bestop doors off until it gets substantially warmer and I won't really need the uppers. I'll probably send an email to Bestop about safety concerns with these doors.

I was seriously concerned that the wind would rip the tops of the doors right off yesterday. Wind speeds were probably sustained at about 25 mph with higher gusts. There were times when I slowed down to 25 mph in a 45 mph zone simply because the tops of the doors were leaning out so far. For much of the 26 miles to town, I had one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand trying to hold the top of the driver's side window from leaning out and becoming a kite.

I am going to look into welding additional braces onto the bottom halves of these doors. I had half doors on my '03 Rubicon and used regular soft uppers and also the glass sliders. Each of those were very sturdy and there was never the slightest problem with them separating from the door frame even at 75 mph into a stiff headwind.

For the price Bestop charges for these things, you'd think they would be engineered a LOT better.
04-06-2013 03:02 PM
GulfCoast
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
Thanks...I probably should admit that I've earned my living as a photographer for the past 36 years.

But...now you live closer to the Jeep factory.
Well played on the purchase and you live in off roading heaven, got a web site with any more of your work?
04-06-2013 02:49 PM
live_slow Nice work and wise tire size selection. I'm all for pizza cutters (in the overland / practical builds, wider isn't always better!)
04-05-2013 12:09 PM
Moabite Here are a couple of photos with the new Bestop 2-piece soft doors installed...one taken yesterday on the Fins 'n' Things Trail.

The doors definitely increase the fun factor of the jeep. They offer a lot of freedom. You can go from full to half to no doors in a matter of seconds...and vice versa. All 4 tops and the bottom rears store in the Tuffy Security Deck with room to spare...while the bottom fronts fit perfectly in the tray on top of the Tuffy Deck.

I had to do a lot of bending of the metal frame to get the doors to fit tightly. They are a bit of a pain to close but it's something I can live with to gain the convenience. I haven't decided yet if they will stay on all summer. They've been on for about 10 days.

There is a LOT of wind noise with these doors, especially with the jeep totally enclosed (top on, windows closed). It's virtually impossible to listen to the stereo at anything over about 50 mph. But open a window or fold back the Sunrider top, and they are actually pretty quiet.

My only real complaint about them is that the front uppers start leaning out at the top at speeds above about 50 mph...enough to see an inch or so of daylight. I had half doors on my '03 Rubicon with regular soft uppers and also some sliders. There was no such problem with either of those. I know some people have started using a velcro strap to keep the uppers from leaning out. It's a good thing I don't go over 50 mph very often. At slow speeds, they seal very well.

It seems that Bestop could have engineered these much better. There is a small gap at the front bottoms of the doors which could have been taken care of by simply designing the metal frame correctly. Everyone with these doors has mentioned that gap. Weather stripping sometimes has to be tucked into the door opening before closing the rear doors...or you end up with weather stripping showing outside the vehicle and a less than perfect seal.

But overall, I'd have to say I'm pleased with them. Yes, there are problems. But at this time, they are the only doors available that offer the full/half/no-door options and the ability to store all the pieces in the back of the vehicle.
04-03-2013 10:19 AM
Moabite Bumpers are Poison Spyder...powdercoated to match the stock Rubicon wheels. Black bumpers are so...ummm...black. I don't like black wheels either...but that's just personal preference.

Lowerumble: I will try to post photos of the interior back later this week. The Tuffy #275 deck is fantastic! Highly recommended...especially since the top or front can be removed so easily if necessary. GREAT design.

Pup: Will also take a few more pix of the seat covers. Yes they are TrekArmor Coyotes. Photo below of right after installation....factory wrinkles still included.

I will also post some photos of the Bestop 2-piece soft doors and a few comments. I like them...but they have their drawbacks.
04-02-2013 10:32 PM
bvanfossen What is your front bumper you have?
04-02-2013 09:32 PM
Pup Do you have any other pics showing the trek armor seat covers on your front seats? That's the coyote color, right?
04-02-2013 09:15 PM
Lowerumble Hey Moab. I know you said that you were going going to do a full write up on the back of the jeep. Are you still planning on that?
04-02-2013 09:12 PM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdbohannon View Post
thanks. So I assume the documentation that comes with the sub mentions how to wire for 2,4 or 8?
Yes...the SVC model is 4 ohm only. Dual can be wired 2 or 8.
04-02-2013 06:28 PM
tdbohannon thanks. So I assume the documentation that comes with the sub mentions how to wire for 2,4 or 8?
04-02-2013 04:42 PM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdbohannon View Post
Excellent write up. Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean when you say the sub is 'wired for 2ohm resistance'. Crutchfield says it's a 4 ohm speaker...
Thanks in advance for the info. I've already changed out the tweeters and dash / soundbar speakers and it sounds great, except for a lack of bass at speed with the top down / doors off...
The single voice coil MM840 is 4 ohm. Each of the 2 voice coils in the MM840D is 4 ohm. TheMM840D can be wired for either a 2 ohm or 8 ohm resistance depending on how the wires are attached to the sub. The single voice coil MM840 can only be wired one way. If I had it to do over, I probably would buy the single voice coil model. I think re-wiring it for 8 ohm impedance may make it a better match for the JBL amp.
04-02-2013 04:19 PM
tdbohannon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
The sub is installed...now I just have to hook up the amp, a JBL GTO-501EZ mono amp. The sub is wired for 2 ohm resistance. The grill is a Rockford Fosgate P2P3G-8 woofer grille. I attached it with low-profile velcro and a couple of small screws. I was a little worried that the grill might hit the Trailgater table, but it does not as you can see. With the amp, sub, grill, subwoofer cable, amp install kit, dynamat, and acousti-fill, I've only got about $325 in it.
Excellent write up. Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean when you say the sub is 'wired for 2ohm resistance'. Crutchfield says it's a 4 ohm speaker...
Thanks in advance for the info. I've already changed out the tweeters and dash / soundbar speakers and it sounds great, except for a lack of bass at speed with the top down / doors off...
04-01-2013 04:44 PM
Lowerumble Oh I think I like that alot!
04-01-2013 12:00 PM
Moabite I had a friend build a custom floor/deck to cover the area where the rear seat would normally be when folded. I was amazed at what I was able to fit underneath.

If I ever want to re-install the 91-pound rear seat, I just have to remove 5 bolts and the one-piece floor/deck will pull right out. The recovery gear, jump starter, Viair 450P compressor and other things that aren't accessed very often are stored under the frig. I have so much storage now that the Jeep is starting to feel like a minivan.


I also installed the absolutely totally AWESOME Tuffy #275 Security Deck and the Bestop 2-piece soft doors last week. I'll post some photos of those two items (and comments) later this week.
03-20-2013 11:07 PM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by UhOhBadDog View Post
Very cool to hear. Ordered the same sub. Do you think I could get away with less amp power? If so, any specific one you would look at Brand/Model?

You can definitely get by with less amp power...the JBL is probably too much amp for the Polk. It's pushing 500 watts RMS at 2 ohms....and the Polk is rated at 180 RMS/500 peak...which is one reason why I may rewire the sub to 8 ohms where it will probably be closer to 200 watts. You don't really need the dual voice coil model of the MM840. The SVC model would give you 4 ohm impedance. Something around 150-200 watts RMS would probably be plenty for the Polk sub.

There are 2 channels going to the stock sub...one for each voice coil. Both of those are hooked into the JBL amp and there is just one 12-ga. output wire going to the sub...no real need for that second voice coil. It just gives you more choices in wiring for a different impedance. I didn't even have to cut the wires going to the stock sub...just spliced into them.

I don't remember what other amps I was looking at when I bought the JBL. I would highly recommend an amp with an auto-turn-on circuit so you don't have to run a remote turn on wire....and one that accepts high level inputs so you just have to splice into the existing sub wires. It probably took me less than an hour to hook up the amp. Most of the time was spent making the adapter and prepping the stock sub enclosure.
03-20-2013 05:30 PM
UhOhBadDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moabite View Post
The sub/amp combo is hooked up. Holy crap...it is very hard-hitting, tight bass. Sounds good. The stock woofer is laughable in comparison. The Polk sub has VERY good low frequency extension. I've had to turn down the bass in the head unit to minus 4 and the gain on the amp is only at about 2 on a scale of 1-10.

I may even try wiring the sub at 8 ohms and see what happens. There's certainly no lack of power. But I think I'll wait until I have the doors and top off since I may have to crank the bass up a little under those conditions...but at this point, it sounds like it could shatter the windows in the vehicle next to me.

Some have said they had rattles when putting an aftermarket sub in the stock enclosure. I do not. I think the dynamat may have solved that problem.

To be honest, I'm really surprised at how good it sounds. Now I just need to find the time to replace the soundbar and dash speakers.
Very cool to hear. Ordered the same sub. Do you think I could get away with less amp power? If so, any specific one you would look at Brand/Model?
03-20-2013 01:26 PM
Moabite The sub/amp combo is hooked up. Holy crap...it is very hard-hitting, tight bass. Sounds good. The stock woofer is laughable in comparison. The Polk sub has VERY good low frequency extension. I've had to turn down the bass in the head unit to minus 4 and the gain on the amp is only at about 2 on a scale of 1-10.

I may even try wiring the sub at 8 ohms and see what happens. There's certainly no lack of power. But I think I'll wait until I have the doors and top off since I may have to crank the bass up a little under those conditions...but at this point, it sounds like it could shatter the windows in the vehicle next to me.

Some have said they had rattles when putting an aftermarket sub in the stock enclosure. I do not. I think the dynamat may have solved that problem.

To be honest, I'm really surprised at how good it sounds. Now I just need to find the time to replace the soundbar and dash speakers.
03-18-2013 10:47 AM
Moabite The sub is installed...now I just have to hook up the amp, a JBL GTO-501EZ mono amp. The sub is wired for 2 ohm resistance. The grill is a Rockford Fosgate P2P3G-8 woofer grille. I attached it with low-profile velcro and a couple of small screws. I was a little worried that the grill might hit the Trailgater table, but it does not as you can see. With the amp, sub, grill, subwoofer cable, amp install kit, dynamat, and acousti-fill, I've only got about $325 in it.
03-17-2013 01:38 PM
UhOhBadDog Anxious to hear what you think of what you hear. Have the same desire to keep the stock head unit, but give a bit more oomph on the output end on a reasonable budget. If you have the detail on the amp, that would be great too.

As for your cabin system, I loved those Polks back when. Locked into a set of Axiom Audio out of Canada these days, and love 'em.
03-17-2013 12:18 PM
Moabite So I'm finally getting around to installing some of the audio gear that has been sitting around for the last couple of months...thought I would post a few pix of the sub install in the stock enclosure.

At this time, I'm just replacing the dash and sound bar speakers with Polks, and installing a Polk MM840D sub that will be driven by a 500-watt @2 ohm JBL amplifier. Depending on how it sounds, I may end up adding a signal processor and another amp to drive the dash/soundbar speakers.

I'm well aware that the audiophile solution to the Jeep sound system would be to replace the head unit, amp, wiring, etc. But I want to keep the head unit with the UConnect and all the steering wheel controls. So I will be content with a non-audiophile solution...but should have substantially better sound when the project is completed. I won't be sitting down with a glass of wine and doing critical listening in the Jeep. That is reserved for the 5-figure sound system in the cabin complete with 30-year-old, 135-lb Polk speakers capable of reproducing 16Hz organ pedals with stunning realism.

The MM840D is tailor-made for the stock JK sub enclosure, both in dimensions and box volume. However, the mounting holes do not line up, which required the fabrication of an adapter. I could not think of any way to just drill new holes in the stock housing and have the sub be securely mounted. So I made an adapter out of 1/2 inch plywood. Six holes had to be drilled in the adapter to mount it to the housing, and another eight holes for mounting the sub to the adapter. You could also buy a pre-made 1/2-inch spacer and drill it. (The sub fits without the adapter...but as I said, there is no way to securely mount it).

The enclosure has been lined with Dynamat and loosely filled with Acousti-fill. See photos.

Photo 1: Just the adapter
Photo 2: Dynamatted enclosure
Photo 3: Adapter installed
Photo 4: Acousti-filled

The back of the adapter was dynamatted and it was installed with the stock screws. After it was installed, I drilled the holes where the sub-mounting screws will go through the plastic (the holes were already in the adapter). The sub will be mounted with deck screws into the plywood and through the plastic of the stock housing. It will be bombproof.

Another problem that had to be solved was how to protect the sub. The optional Polk grill is a wagon wheel design that offers virtually no protection and also requires the sub to be spaced out substantially from the stock housing because of the grill's larger diameter. I settled on a metal grill made for Rockford-Fosgate speakers that will provide complete protection. Some tiny screws will mount the grill to the material filling the Polk's mounting bracket...might decide to put a few spots of glue on it too.

So the hardest parts of the sub mount are now finished. I just have to wire and mount the sub, then install the amp. I will splice into the sub wires near the rear passenger door for high-level amp input...and then just have to run a heavy-gauge hot wire to the battery and ground the amp. The amp has a signal-sensing circuit so I do not need to run a remote turn-on wire. Will post pix some time in the next few days of the finished install.
03-10-2013 06:56 PM
Moabite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctorsti View Post
Wow, that is great, my wife would love that. I have do everything I can to help her love the Jeep. Where did you find that or is it custom?

It's a 2002 Spottswoode Cabernet that's been in my cellar for 7 years...I'm sure it would make your wife very happy.

Oh...ummm...or were you referring to the table? It's an Outback JK Trailgater. I ordered it Tuesday from Rebel Off-Road, one of the WF vendors, and received it yesterday via FedEx.
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