Jeep Wrangler Forum - Reply to Topic
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum > Wouldnt start. Why did this fix it?

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Thread: Wouldnt start. Why did this fix it? Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
05-03-2013 10:13 AM
LSC Wanted to thanks again for all your help.

My jeep had been running well for a few days, with no real indication as to why, when it finally died while I was at the gym. Luckily, a few friends came out and we got it push started so I could get it back to my garage. Prior to push starting it, we tried putting power straight to the starter with no luck. Just in case it was an issue with my battery, we did the same thing using the battery from a friends jeep.

I decided to go ahead and replace the starter, and it started after a little bit of struggle. With my intermittant issues, I can't be sure it was fixed after replacing the starter or if its just back in the mood to run again.

The shop I have used in the past has offered to do a full inspection of the wiring on Monday, free of charge, as they suspected it was a bad ground.
04-27-2013 10:34 AM
s14sh3r After you jumped it, did it start with the key again? If jumping it at the relay socket works every time, we can rule out the starter to terminal 87 at the relay. You may have said already, but have you checked the relay itself? Swap it with a known good one. The horn relay is a good one to swap with. You can test the relay fairly easily with a multimeter and a couple of jumper wires.

If you check for continuity between terminals 30 and 87, you should get no continuity. If you check between 40 and 87A, you should have continuity. Check resistance between terminals 85 and 86. It should be 75 ohms, plus or minus 5 ohms.
I use 18 gauge jumper wires with alligator clips for the next part. Connect terminal 86 to ground and terminal 85 to 12v+ positive (I use the battery). Check continuity again and you should have continuity between 30 and 87 and no continuity between 30 and 87a.

I know this way is slow, but it's methodical and will rule out possibilities.
04-27-2013 09:22 AM
LSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by s14sh3r View Post
When you say bypassing the relay, are you talking about using a jumper at the starter solenoid or the power distribution center? If you're talking about jumping at the solenoid on the starter, here's where to use a jumper at the relay socket to rule out a problem between the PDC and the starter:



I can explain further if need be.
Yup, that's what I did.
04-26-2013 04:57 PM
s14sh3r
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSC View Post
Mini-update: bypassing the relay powers the starter. Not sure if it was just another random occurrence of it deciding to start, or whether its an indication the issue lies with the relay or upstream of the relay...

thanks for the suggestions you guys
When you say bypassing the relay, are you talking about using a jumper at the starter solenoid or the power distribution center? If you're talking about jumping at the solenoid on the starter, here's where to use a jumper at the relay socket to rule out a problem between the PDC and the starter:



I can explain further if need be.
04-26-2013 04:07 PM
LSC Mini-update: bypassing the relay powers the starter. Not sure if it was just another random occurrence of it deciding to start, or whether its an indication the issue lies with the relay or upstream of the relay...

thanks for the suggestions you guys
04-26-2013 02:20 AM
kosmo04 What about it being the starter itself when it gets hot? I had an old f-150 that did that, wouldn't start after I drove some where but if I let it sit or when it was cold it worked great. Anyways GL, hopefully you'll figure it out soon.

Kosmo
04-26-2013 02:06 AM
flflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSC View Post

I still don't have a second set of hands to turn the key for me so I can check the starter relay and the starter itself. A friend is supposed to come over in a few... we shall see.
I recomend an Extremely helpful tool that you can make for yourself for just a couple bucks. Run down to any auto supply store and pick up a side marker bulb socket with 4-6" leads a couple spade terminals the correct size to fit in the relay connection and a 194 bulb. Crimp the spade terminals on the marker lamp leads and you now have a testlight that plugs into you relay sockets. Handy little item that should be in every Jeepers toolbox.

One other thing, although a multimeter is a great and valuable tool for electrical diagnostic work it has one drawback....... it places no load on the circuit. If you have a connection thats just barely loose, slightly corroded or the wires only holding on by a couple strands a multimeter may show a good circuit with low ohms.
On intermittent wireing concerns like your dealing with its much better to load test the circuits.
04-25-2013 11:50 PM
s14sh3r It should be 12+ volts with the key in the start position. I used a small paper clip to get down in the socket when I was having electrical problems. One thing I did was put a pair of small alligator clips on a 25 foot wire for things like this. Straightened paper clip in the socket, alligator clip on that, wire ran into the cab and the other alligator clip on the positive probe of the multimeter. I also have a shorter wire to use for a ground if need be. It makes things much simpler when you're trying to do things yourself and you need to be one place and test in another. I keep the 25 footer coiled up and in the glove box. It might come in handy some day when I'm out and about.
04-25-2013 09:59 PM
LSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by s14sh3r View Post
If it were me, I would check the starter relay in the PDC (Power Distribution Center) to help rule out possible causes. Pull the relay and test for voltage at the cavity for terminal 86 using a multimeter. I suppose you could use a test light as well, if you don't have a multimeter. The cavity for terminal 86 should have voltage when the key is turned to the start position and no voltage when the key is released. Here is a pinout of the relay so you can find the right cavity in the PDC to test:

How much voltage am I supposed to be seeing here? The multimeter showed .2V in the #86 slot, but my probe wouldn't fit in the slot. I had to use a thin piece of copper wiring to make the connection.

After that, I moved down to the starter itself. Hit the positive and a ground and when my buddy turned the key the engine started. It started once more, and then wouldn't start again. I decided to try to get a reading again, and again it started. It started 3 more times before it decided not to start again. I wish I wasn't doing this at 10pm so I could take it some where

I am way out of my knowledge zone here. What do you guys think? Thanks again for all the suggestions. I'm fortunate enough to have another car, and messing with this has been as much enjoyable as it has been a pain in the ass I do have a set of Bilstein 5100s and new front/rear bumpers waiting to go on... but kind of want to get it running first
04-25-2013 09:53 PM
LSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by indirocz28 View Post
For about $20 you can always buy a remote starter switch with spring clamps to clip on so that you don't need another person. Then its just another tool to add to your box!
But then I'd be drinking beer by myself!

(Not that I wasn't doing that anyway...)
04-25-2013 09:45 PM
indirocz28 For about $20 you can always buy a remote starter switch with spring clamps to clip on so that you don't need another person. Then its just another tool to add to your box!
04-25-2013 09:11 PM
LSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUBI 4 MY MRS View Post
As stated there it can & has been known to cause intermittent no starts. Sometimes the end of the pin cracks & is displaced enough to still "almost" turn the switch enough to engage the starter contacts & may or may not quite make it. Eventually the pin's tip probably will break off & then for sure no start. It is easy to check & with the switch off of the cylinder assembly you can turn the switch with a screwdriver to make sure the switch is good & consistently starts the engine before putting it back together.

Here is a link with more info & in the 2nd post has a couple more links with photos & a video that may help.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/2006...es-184163.html
Pulled out my ignition actuator, but everything looks fine. I went a head and turned the ignition with a screw driver, and voila! It started! Of course, I'm an idiot, and I turned it back off thinking it would start again. No dice. Just another random instance of starting. Put the ignition back together after fussing with the key cylinder for half an hour...

I still don't have a second set of hands to turn the key for me so I can check the starter relay and the starter itself. A friend is supposed to come over in a few... we shall see.
04-23-2013 12:19 PM
LSC Thanks. I'll check that tonight, too.
04-22-2013 11:04 PM
s14sh3r If it were me, I would check the starter relay in the PDC (Power Distribution Center) to help rule out possible causes. Pull the relay and test for voltage at the cavity for terminal 86 using a multimeter. I suppose you could use a test light as well, if you don't have a multimeter. The cavity for terminal 86 should have voltage when the key is turned to the start position and no voltage when the key is released. Here is a pinout of the relay so you can find the right cavity in the PDC to test:

04-22-2013 10:07 PM
LSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUBI 4 MY MRS View Post
As stated there it can & has been known to cause intermittent no starts. Sometimes the end of the pin cracks & is displaced enough to still "almost" turn the switch enough to engage the starter contacts & may or may not quite make it. Eventually the pin's tip probably will break off & then for sure no start. It is easy to check & with the switch off of the cylinder assembly you can turn the switch with a screwdriver to make sure the switch is good & consistently starts the engine before putting it back together.

Here is a link with more info & in the 2nd post has a couple more links with photos & a video that may help.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/2006...es-184163.html
Thanks. Checking the pin will be my project for tomorrow.

Using the "off-on-off-on" method, the LCD immediately flashes "donE" and then displays the mileage. Does this mean there is no code? There is still a CEL showing when the key is left in the on position (after all the other icons have gone away).

I also put on new terminals and cleaned up the connection to the battery, as I had seen Jerry suggest it time and time again in similar threads. No luck this time around.

Thanks again for your help.
04-22-2013 08:14 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSurveyor View Post
Interesting. I haven't heard of this before. Won't it jump on you without the clutch. Don't mean to high jack this thread.
Installing that clutch interlock switch bypass just makes it like all manual transmissions & their clutches used to be before the lawsuit-happy lawyers got involved & demanded an interlock switch.

All you have to do for normal street driving/starting is learn to make sure the transmission is in Neutral or you're stepping on the clutch as our parents/grandparents/great-grand-parents easily learned to do.

Offroad, this ability is typically used when you're in 4Lo to get out of a precarious situation when the engine can't be started or won't start. It's very handy & is why Jeep engineering went to the trouble of providing a way to bypass that stupid clutch interlock "safety" switch.
04-22-2013 05:20 PM
RUBI 4 MY MRS As stated there it can & has been known to cause intermittent no starts. Sometimes the end of the pin cracks & is displaced enough to still "almost" turn the switch enough to engage the starter contacts & may or may not quite make it. Eventually the pin's tip probably will break off & then for sure no start. It is easy to check & with the switch off of the cylinder assembly you can turn the switch with a screwdriver to make sure the switch is good & consistently starts the engine before putting it back together.

Here is a link with more info & in the 2nd post has a couple more links with photos & a video that may help.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/2006...es-184163.html
04-22-2013 04:07 PM
LSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUBI 4 MY MRS View Post
I think you used the wrong method to pull the codes. Did you hold the reset button & turned the key on? You need to turn the key (not starting) on-off-on-off-on then read the codes (if any) in the odometer display.

Reread post # 4 & check that.
I will check again on the codes.

As far as the actuator pin, I will have to check tonight. If it were broken, wouldn't it not start at all? Right now its starting intermittently.

Thanks!
04-22-2013 02:00 PM
RUBI 4 MY MRS I think you used the wrong method to pull the codes. Did you hold the reset button & turned the key on? You need to turn the key (not starting) on-off-on-off-on then read the codes (if any) in the odometer display.

Reread post # 4 & check that.
04-22-2013 08:49 AM
LSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.L. View Post
I believe #20 is supposed to be empty. It's the one you put a 20A fuse INTO if you want to be able to start it without pressing the clutch. Useful when rock crawling, so you don't roll backwards when starting if you stall/park it in a precarious spot.
Thanks, this is correct. Unfortunately, adding a 20A fuse to #20 did not allow me to start, so I guess that means it isn't an issue with the clutch interlock.

I had more problems over the weekend . I drove the jeep to the gym on Saturday, and it wouldn't start when I went to leave. Came back about 3 hours later, and it started after a few tries. Tried to start it again on Sunday, and its back to not starting.

I have CEL now, but it doesn't seem to be giving me the typical error codes. The diagnositcs show:

SoF 4.0
771101
bUS b1
bUS b8

I'm going to break the multimeter back out and see if I can find a break somewhere... any other suggestions? Any idea what that "771101" means?

Thanks all!
04-17-2013 07:45 AM
RedSurveyor
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.L. View Post

Yes, but in 4Lo the effect is minimal. The same trick can be used in 2Hi to get home in a pinch of you lose hydraulic pressure to your clutch, but it'll be a rough ride.
Good to know. Maybe this trick will come in handy some day.
04-17-2013 06:58 AM
C.L.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSurveyor View Post
Interesting. I haven't heard of this before. Won't it jump on you without the clutch. Don't mean to high jack this thread.
Yes, but in 4Lo the effect is minimal. The same trick can be used in 2Hi to get home in a pinch of you lose hydraulic pressure to your clutch, but it'll be a rough ride.
04-16-2013 07:11 PM
RedSurveyor
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.L. View Post

I believe #20 is supposed to be empty. It's the one you put a 20A fuse INTO if you want to be able to start it without pressing the clutch. Useful when rock crawling, so you don't roll backwards when starting if you stall/park it in a precarious spot.
Interesting. I haven't heard of this before. Won't it jump on you without the clutch. Don't mean to high jack this thread.
04-16-2013 07:02 PM
C.L.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSC View Post
While I was messing with the fuses, I also discovered that it looks like the Clutch Interlock(#20) fuse is missing... not sure if that has anything to do with it, but that's actually the fuse I was planning on pulling.
I believe #20 is supposed to be empty. It's the one you put a 20A fuse INTO if you want to be able to start it without pressing the clutch. Useful when rock crawling, so you don't roll backwards when starting if you stall/park it in a precarious spot.
04-16-2013 06:37 PM
RUBI 4 MY MRS Probably the actuator pin is cracked which can cause intermittent no starts. It connects the key cylinder to the ignition switch. Eventually the end will break off & it will never start. Do a search, there are several threads on this & a video on replacing it.
04-16-2013 01:52 PM
s14sh3r Mine had an intermittent electrical problem where the fuel pump wouldn't work. I chased the problem down for several months, and I could do random things that would seeming work at some times, but not at other times. Ultimately, it was a corroded connector in the wiring harness. Unbeknownst to me at the time, I was bumping it when I would do certain things, and it would work again for a while.

Try to recreate the problem. If it doesn't start, then starts if you pull that fuse, put it back and see if it starts or not. If it starts when you put the fuse back, pull a different fuse next time and see what happens. If that "fixes" it, it could be a corrosion issue somewhere.

Trying to find intermittent electrical problems can be a pain in the ass, I know. Since you've discovered something that you can do to get it going again, that's a good start. Diagnose from there.

Good luck!
04-16-2013 01:34 PM
LSC While I was messing with the fuses, I also discovered that it looks like the Clutch Interlock(#20) fuse is missing... not sure if that has anything to do with it, but that's actually the fuse I was planning on pulling.
04-16-2013 01:24 PM
LSC
Wouldnt start. Why did this fix it?

TLDR summary at the bottom

Hey all, I've been having trouble with my 2004 TJ the past two weeks. Last week, it wouldn't start. I checked the battery, fuses, etc, and eventually a friend helped me tow it to a shop down the street from me. The next day they called me to tell me my they tested the battery and the starter, and after checking all the fuses, determined the starter fuse was missing... I didn't believe them, as I'd just checked it, but I didn't have any other answers, and they had it running again.

Fast forward today, and after I drove to grab some lunch (Mmm Jimmy Johns), I went back out to the Jeep and it wouldn't start. Same problems as before: Turn the key and get axillary power, but the engine doesn't turnover. No click at the starter either.

I started by checking my fuses under the hood, everything looked good, but I went ahead and pulled them out, tested a different fuse for the starter (nothing), and put them back in and tried again (nothing).

Then I started messing around with the fuses in the glove box... I pulled the first 25A fuse which should be my front wipers (#17).... decided to try to start with this fuse removed and boom... she started. Why!? Any ideas whats going on here???


TLDR:
Jeep wouldn't start, but dash, radio, etc received power. No issues with the battery or starter as far as I can tell. Fuses under the hood all look good, and pulling/swapping/replacing them didn't help. Finally, I pulled the #17 25A fuse behind the glove box labled "FRT Wipe"... with the fuse removed, the jeep started just fine. I've left it out. Any idea whats going on?

Thanks all!

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC