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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-19-2013 05:39 PM
socal-jk
Quote:
Originally Posted by woansleftpeg View Post

Hey, I'm not making a pro- or anti-gun argument. I'm simply defending Canada from the whole, slightly silly, "we're more free than you" argument that the other chap made.
Nah that wasn't directed at you by any means. It was just a statement against a large misconception people in other countries or people who get misinformation from the media.

Anyway.... time to reel it in. I never worry about getting stuff stolen out of mine. I'm in the bar right now and its outside with the top panels out and windows down. If they want in that bad it won't matter soft top or hard top. I just don't leave anything of value in my car. Just a GPS but a cheap one that would be less then fixing a broken window or console.
05-19-2013 04:40 PM
LVRaptor
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoBobH View Post
Really?

Nice to know the extent of expertise here on the forums.

How many, exactly, firearms left in unattended vehicles end up in the hands of homicidal gang bangers?

For that matter, how many fire arms were stolen from unattended (as opposed to being from attended) vehicles in 2010? Curious. Very curious.
And exactly how many murders was that? Eight? Eighty? Eight thousand? What?

Thanks in advance for your reliable numbers.

BobH

WOW!!!! Really you are going to give someone hell for this? I have a number for you, 1! Not a huge number but it is WAY TO HIGH a number for people to be killed by a firearm stolen from a vehicle. Now I am just guessing at the number of people killed this way and dont have any statistics for ya so my bad. I do agree with the poster that stated the gun control laws are getting way out of hand because for the most part it is hampering the honest Americans and not the criminals that would use said stolen gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
First 15 years in soft top jeeps - broken into more times than I can count. Rear window slashed multiple times, half door window slashed a couple times...even had the entire roof stolen once. Usually had nothing of value in those two jeeps. One didn't even have a radio....but they were broken into all of the time regardless.

Hard top for the last 12 years. Broken into once. Smash and grab driver side window when I left a GPS stuck on the front windshield...back when they were considered valuable.

Either way, tinted rear windows help...so whatever you may leave in the back isn't as visible.
Sounds more to me like someone really didnt like you lol.
05-19-2013 02:52 PM
st1264 I'm 100% Pro-Gun and I was jumped on because I said I couldn't (and wouldn't) store a handgun in a Jeep with a soft top.

I wouldn't have my laptop or my Mossy 500 in there unattended. I have guns in there all the time, to the range and back. Don't choose to store anything of value in there as someone can unzip a window (or carve it) and have at your belongings.

The question is about security with a soft top... and unless you setup a good alarm system like an above poster did, there's isn't much security with a soft top.
05-19-2013 02:38 PM
woansleftpeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal-jk View Post
Then obviously the statistics point to something as its not a gun problem but a problem of society and culture. Get parents to act like parents and take care of their kids, help them do their home work, watch where they are and who they hang out with and see this problem disappear in a generation. Remember we've had guns here forever and this has only been a problem portrayed by the media over the last few years, where on the whole gun ownership has skyrocketed in 20 years yet all forms of violent crime have been reduced. Gun death statistics are misleading as they count an overwhelming number of suicides. There is also no record kept of how many guns PREVENT crime. Look no further then cities lik DC, Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, NYC have the strictest gun laws yet the highest gun crime. Again, cultural and sociological issues need to be addressed.
Hey, I'm not making a pro- or anti-gun argument. I'm simply defending Canada from the whole, slightly silly, "we're more free than you" argument that the other chap made.
05-19-2013 02:34 PM
laollis WOW! If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black. LOL
05-19-2013 02:24 PM
st1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal-jk View Post
Then obviously the statistics point to something as its not a gun problem but a problem of society and culture. Get parents to act like parents and take care of their kids, help them do their home work, watch where they are and who they hang out with and see this problem disappear in a generation. Remember we've had guns here forever and this has only been a problem portrayed by the media over the last few years, where on the whole gun ownership has skyrocketed in 20 years yet all forms of violent crime have been reduced. Gun death statistics are misleading as they count an overwhelming number of suicides. There is also no record kept of how many guns PREVENT crime. Look no further then cities lik DC, Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, NYC have the strictest gun laws yet the highest gun crime. Again, cultural and sociological issues need to be addressed.
Strongly agree.
05-19-2013 02:15 PM
socal-jk
Quote:
Originally Posted by woansleftpeg View Post

Over the last ten years, Canada has had an average of about 180 homicides by firearm per year for a population of around 33M. The US averages at about 11,000 for 300M; that's a factor of roughly ten times the amount in Canada.

This isn't really the place for a debate on this topic, but your argument is specious.
Then obviously the statistics point to something as its not a gun problem but a problem of society and culture. Get parents to act like parents and take care of their kids, help them do their home work, watch where they are and who they hang out with and see this problem disappear in a generation. Remember we've had guns here forever and this has only been a problem portrayed by the media over the last few years, where on the whole gun ownership has skyrocketed in 20 years yet all forms of violent crime have been reduced. Gun death statistics are misleading as they count an overwhelming number of suicides. There is also no record kept of how many guns PREVENT crime. Look no further then cities lik DC, Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, NYC have the strictest gun laws yet the highest gun crime. Again, cultural and sociological issues need to be addressed.
05-19-2013 01:46 PM
woansleftpeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Thats why i dont go to canada. I live somewhere i have the right to self defense, where my human life is valued more than someones ability to take it away from me. All the criminals have guns in their cars. The criminals shouldnt steal them. My jeep is locked. My house is locked. When someone breaks in, it is not my fault

Furthermore go to a gun store and find a vault in the 2000 dollar range. Lock it and turn the handle HARD. these gun safes are a scam and the vast majority of them offer no more inconvenience than a glass window.

Furthermore what if im home and someone breaks in? Shouldnt i be able to defend myself? Oh hang on a minute sir. Let me load my shotgun.

Yeah. Im glad i dont live in canada. Why dont you just stay there and stop telling free men how to live.
Over the last ten years, Canada has had an average of about 180 homicides by firearm per year for a population of around 33M. The US averages at about 11,000 for 300M; that's a factor of roughly ten times the amount in Canada.

This isn't really the place for a debate on this topic, but your argument is specious.
05-19-2013 01:43 PM
MTH Watch the language and attitude in this thread.

If folks start getting hostile, I'll shut it down.
05-19-2013 01:40 PM
st1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Thats why i dont go to canada. I live somewhere i have the right to self defense, where my human life is valued more than someones ability to take it away from me. All the criminals have guns in their cars. The criminals shouldnt steal them. My jeep is locked. My house is locked. When someone breaks in, it is not my fault

Furthermore go to a gun store and find a vault in the 2000 dollar range. Lock it and turn the handle HARD. these gun safes are a scam and the vast majority of them offer no more inconvenience than a glass window.

Furthermore what if im home and someone breaks in? Shouldnt i be able to defend myself? Oh hang on a minute sir. Let me load my shotgun.

Yeah. Im glad i dont live in canada. Why dont you just stay there and stop telling free men how to live.
Could care less what you do, who you do it to or what you think. Just said I can't have a handgun in my vehicle. Take it as you like. If you were insulted, too bad.

There's a reason why we have as many murders in the entire country compared to one of your major cities.

Do whatever you like. If you put your pistol, flamethrower or whatever in your soft top Jeep, no skin off my back. Go back and read what I said rather than being an ****** about it.

Believe me, if anyone breaks into my house, they're dead. I don't have a use for a gun in my vehicle. Don't have the violent crime you guys do. Anyone wants to break in or steal my Jeep, it's insured. Not going to cry over it.
05-19-2013 01:34 PM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
All the criminals have guns in their cars.
False. Do you really believe this?

The teenagers that were arrested in my case were unarmed. And surely you don't believe every wandering homeless man looking to break into cars and get something pricey to sell for crack is armed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
The criminals shouldnt steal them.
False. As noted, the teenagers that were arrested in my case were unarmed and would no doubt have been happy to find and steal a gun.

Further, even if they were armed to the teeth, guns are high value item. Why wouldn't a well-armed thief take it for resale? I'm confident many who have iPods steal others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
My jeep is locked. My house is locked. When someone breaks in, it is not my fault
True, but many states do impose liability if your firearm is stolen and subsequently used in a crime if you did not exercise "reasonable efforts" to secure the gun in the first place. You can have it, but you have responsibility to keep it secure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Furthermore go to a gun store and find a vault in the 2000 dollar range. Lock it and turn the handle HARD. these gun safes are a scam and the vast majority of them offer no more inconvenience than a glass window.
This is simply not true. I defy you to achieve this in any verifiable form and submit proof on this forum.

Tell you what--come out to nc and let's meet up. I'll put $500 in my bestop lockbox. If you can get to it 5 minutes without any tools, you can have it. Then we'll play the same game with your console, and you front the $500 this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Furthermore what if im home and someone breaks in? Shouldnt i be able to defend myself? Oh hang on a minute sir. Let me load my shotgun.
I have a loaded 9mm in a combination safe. It takes seconds for me to get to, and confounds everyone else who tries. Problem solved.
05-19-2013 01:23 PM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post

Bull. Criminals are responsible for stealing them.

What if someone steals the jeep and uses the whole thing as a weapon?
This is not persuasive.

Criminal responsibility for thefts of weapons does not absolve you for making those weapons readily available to the criminals.

Likewise, the notion that a jeep (or just about anything) could conceivably be used as a "weapon" of some kind does not absolve you for making actual weapons readily available to criminals.

The most persuasive thing I've heard as to your specific situation so far is that you have "modified" your center console for added security. If that's true, that could (depending on the modification) conceivably be sufficient to secure the weapons you take with you in your jeep in a responsible way.

However, if the modification still relies on the stock locking mechanism or hinges, I'd say it still fails as a responsible way to transport a firearm when you're not actually in the vehicle.

A personal anecdote to consider . . .

Earlier in this thread, I posted a link to a thread I made when my jeep was broken into.

At the time, a group of teenage thieves had been targeting our parking garage on random occasions. On the day they broke into my jeep, they also broke into eight other vehicles.

My jeep's center console and glove box (which had both been left unlocked and empty of valuables) were left open with their contents scattered. The consoles and glove boxes that had been locked in other vehicles (to secure Garmins, iPods, etc.) had simply been yanked open by hand, with their contents likewise scattered--though any valuable Garmins, iPods, etc. we're of course gone.

To me, that suggests that the console and glovebox are obvious places for any thief to look. And if they're locked, it strikes me as a calling card that something good is inside that they can get with a little elbow grease.

If you've modified your console so as to require significant tools or time to get into, then that's great and would probably satisfy me (for whatever that's worth). But if it's still something you can just yank open with a good set of shoulders, then I seriously ask you to consider other options. Lockboxes are cheap.
05-19-2013 01:20 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by st1264 View Post
Leaving my handgun in the console would put me in jail, cuz I live in Canada. Mine has to be registered, locked up 24/7 and only in the vehicle during transport to the range and back.

A rifle or shotgun is different, just needs to be unloaded.

Don't think I'd leave any firearm in a soft top jeep. Seems people break in just for shits&giggles as it's so easy to do.
Thats why i dont go to canada. I live somewhere i have the right to self defense, where my human life is valued more than someones ability to take it away from me. All the criminals have guns in their cars. The criminals shouldnt steal them. My jeep is locked. My house is locked. When someone breaks in, it is not my fault

Furthermore go to a gun store and find a vault in the 2000 dollar range. Lock it and turn the handle HARD. these gun safes are a scam and the vast majority of them offer no more inconvenience than a glass window.

Furthermore what if im home and someone breaks in? Shouldnt i be able to defend myself? Oh hang on a minute sir. Let me load my shotgun.

Yeah. Im glad i dont live in canada. Why dont you just stay there and stop telling free men how to live.
05-19-2013 12:26 PM
st1264 Leaving my handgun in the console would put me in jail, cuz I live in Canada. Mine has to be registered, locked up 24/7 and only in the vehicle during transport to the range and back.

A rifle or shotgun is different, just needs to be unloaded.

Don't think I'd leave any firearm in a soft top jeep. Seems people break in just for shits&giggles as it's so easy to do.
05-19-2013 12:24 PM
GonzoBobH
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2five22 View Post
I have personally seen it in repeated incidents.
Go call someone else's bluff because you failed here.
Thank you, officer...for your umbridge, haha.

So you are saying that your response was based on personal experience.

In a specific set of parameters.

Copy that.

No need to get all pissy. I am sure your individual experience is relevant and specifically defining to the greater, world-wide wrangler forums.

Here's what I found:

"The report by the Americans for Gun Safety Foundation says nearly 1.7 million firearms were reported to police as stolen from January 1993 through August 2002. The group, which advocates stronger gun-storage laws, relied on numbers collected by the FBI. The numbers show that nearly 688,000 stolen firearms were recovered during the 10-year period, leaving more than 1 million missing and most likely fueling the black market for criminals."

Curious: Of the 1 Million missing guns, how many do you think were stolen from Jeeps? I defer to your expertise.

BobH
05-19-2013 10:44 AM
laollis
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajRager View Post
Leaving your firearm in a vehicle console is an incredibly irresponsible thing to do and does nothing but provide ammunition to the far left gun control nuts. Where should you leave it you ask? How about at home if you have no way of properly securing it while out and about.
Yup! ^^^ What he said.
05-19-2013 10:35 AM
michiganadam Lmao.
05-19-2013 09:04 AM
laollis I have a soft top and leave everything unlocked. I don't have any top on right now, and I still leave it unlocked. I also had Viper 5704 installed so if someone gets too close to it, the alarm first warns them and me by remote, if they don't move away, then the light flash and alarm goes loud, which also notifies me by the remote. I like it and it works.
05-19-2013 08:40 AM
MajRager Leaving your firearm in a vehicle console is an incredibly irresponsible thing to do and does nothing but provide ammunition to the far left gun control nuts. Where should you leave it you ask? How about at home if you have no way of properly securing it while out and about.
05-19-2013 08:23 AM
Adult Beverage
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post

Bull. Criminals are responsible for stealing them.

What if someone steals the jeep and uses the whole thing as a weapon?
Now that's just getting stupid. What is a Jeep's intended purpose?
05-19-2013 08:14 AM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by BManz View Post
As a firearm owner and one who works with law enforcement, firearm owners are responsible for the disposition and secure storage of firearms. A safe is a good start. If your gun is stolen and used in a crime, you'll have some explaining to do. Even if its not used in a crime, you'll have to explain why your vehicle is considered safe overnight storage. It's one thing to store it temporarily while dining in a gun-free zone, but leaving in a vehicle all the time when parking is not the best modus operandi.
Bull. Criminals are responsible for stealing them.

What if someone steals the jeep and uses the whole thing as a weapon?
05-18-2013 11:52 PM
Billybaldin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleff View Post

Dear Criminals in my "hood":

I park my Jeep there, but it's hidden.

There's a gun in it.

And, did you realize my windows unzip?

Sorry, couldn't resist.
Lol.
05-18-2013 11:52 PM
scuba_steve First 15 years in soft top jeeps - broken into more times than I can count. Rear window slashed multiple times, half door window slashed a couple times...even had the entire roof stolen once. Usually had nothing of value in those two jeeps. One didn't even have a radio....but they were broken into all of the time regardless.

Hard top for the last 12 years. Broken into once. Smash and grab driver side window when I left a GPS stuck on the front windshield...back when they were considered valuable.

Either way, tinted rear windows help...so whatever you may leave in the back isn't as visible.
05-18-2013 11:45 PM
BManz
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post

Where should i leave my firearm? hmm?
As a firearm owner and one who works with law enforcement, firearm owners are responsible for the disposition and secure storage of firearms. A safe is a good start. If your gun is stolen and used in a crime, you'll have some explaining to do. Even if its not used in a crime, you'll have to explain why your vehicle is considered safe overnight storage. It's one thing to store it temporarily while dining in a gun-free zone, but leaving in a vehicle all the time when parking is not the best modus operandi.
05-18-2013 11:29 PM
socal-jk I figure if they will cut your top they will smash a window.
05-18-2013 10:22 PM
Kleff Glad you realize it was all in good fun. Enjoy your Jeep.
05-18-2013 10:05 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleff View Post
Dear Criminals in my "hood":

I park my Jeep there, but it's hidden.

There's a gun in it.

And, did you realize my windows unzip?


Sorry, couldn't resist.
Lolllll
05-18-2013 09:38 PM
Z-TJ I have both a hard and soft. Don't feel safe with ether. When I had my TJ I had the widows off and some one ripped my center consol apart and stole my sunglasses and GPS. I got a tuffy under seat lock box I never had anything stolen again. When I bought my JKUR, I bought the same lockbox and I'm saving for this:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...46751780,d.eWU
05-18-2013 09:22 PM
Kleff
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
I park my jeep in the hood constantly. But i keep it in a somewhat hidden spot. I leave nothing valuable in it other than my gun which is locked in the center console which is just as secure as anything ....windows break easy too.....

Just keep insurance on it....

Infact you could break a window on a hardtop as easily as cutting a soft top. I dont think criminals know about the zippers but thats a slow way in.
Dear Criminals in my "hood":

I park my Jeep there, but it's hidden.

There's a gun in it.

And, did you realize my windows unzip?


Sorry, couldn't resist.
05-18-2013 09:13 PM
Remmy18 Soft top is way less secure. Thieves cut the soft top bc it doesn't make any noise. Breaking a window is loud and will get someone shot or torn up by my dogs if it happens in my driveway. I leave my laptop bag with my Mac and iPad locked with my hardtop on all the time. I'd never do that with the soft top.

Yes, I roll doorless all the time. I cringe when I see top down doors on.
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