Jeep Wrangler Forum - Reply to Topic
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > YJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > YJ Tech Forum > Replaced starter - now won't start

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Thread: Replaced starter - now won't start Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
05-27-2009 07:43 PM
jpdocdave good to hear, glad you learned something. gotta cover the basics first definately. very common for that to happen to. i had to go back and reread i can't believe that didn't come up.
05-27-2009 05:04 PM
KTC
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Cranking and firing now.

Second starter was all good. Got a second pair of eyes under the hood today, and found a loose pair of wires right at the pos battery terminal.

All that time I spent checking connections at the starter, and on the route from the batt to the starter - with both the bad starter and the good one I got yesterday - and it turned out to be that simple. Starts great now (I shouldn't jinx myself . . . started great . . . I'm gonna go torque the bolts right now and see if it starts a second time ).

I just want to give a big fat thank you to everyone who commented with advice and support. Sucks not to know what's up with your car when it's not working, but thanks to this forum, I know a lot more about my car now than I did a few days ago.
05-27-2009 12:04 PM
rumblebee1967 Any chance the starter was not checked for clearance on the teeth when it was installed? Could be bound up on the fly wheel. Not usually the problem but has happened. Im stll betting on a bad started with Dave.
05-27-2009 11:18 AM
KTC Lights don't dim when I crank. Some people have recommended whacking the clicking solenoid with a hammer, then starting?

Heading out today; looking forward to a careful reading of new posts, and additional troubleshooting tonight ;-)
05-27-2009 07:19 AM
jpdocdave half a volt to the starter is not power. you need close to 12, 9 and 10 volts will give you some cranking, but what you are saying is no power to the starter.
05-27-2009 05:14 AM
dooder wow, two pages just to get a starter going and still no idea. Put parking brake on, chock wheel, and out of gear. Disconnect S terminal at starter. using a screwdriver jump the Batt and S terminals. if its still doing nothing your problem is battery, battery cable,or grounds. If engine cranks your problem is im S-wire or ignition switch.

also look a few posts up what yjkpower posted about jumper cables.
05-27-2009 04:21 AM
buckshot500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTC View Post
When I tested the battery earlier today with the voltmeter, it showed a good 12.5 volts. Should I still give a jump a try?
Voltage is only half the story, cranking amps are the other half.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTC View Post
Also my lights seem full bright (emphasis on 'seem').

I'd have to call somebody to get a jump, but I'll do it if you think it's worthwhile.
The question is what happens to the headlights, when you are cranking the starter. (or trying to crank it) If the headlights go really dim, then the battery isn't up to snuff.

Trust me, I've been following you plight. You need to try a jump at this point, prolly much sooner.
05-26-2009 11:10 PM
KTC Also my lights seem full bright (emphasis on 'seem').

I'd have to call somebody to get a jump, but I'll do it if you think it's worthwhile.
05-26-2009 10:55 PM
KTC
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshot500 View Post
Try jump starting it, Sounds like low battery amperage to me.

I drove a wrecker for AAA for three years. Clicking is usually from not enough juice!

Hook up the cables, & let it charge up for at least 10-15 minutes before trying it.

Make sure there is no other drain on the battery, IE: doors closed, lights off, & no radio!
When I tested the battery earlier today with the voltmeter, it showed a good 12.5 volts. Should I still give a jump a try?
05-26-2009 10:44 PM
buckshot500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTC View Post
new developments:

Got the multimeter out, tested power from solenoid to starter motor while cranking. Got .25 Volt, starter didn't work. Somebody mentioned before that if I get power to the motor from the solenoid while turning the key, and it still doesn't work, it's definitely a bad starter. So I took it off and exchanged it at schucks.

Put new one on, now I'm having the same problem with it. I get power to the motor from the solenoid (about .5 Volt this time), and now there's a clicking sound from the starter when someone tries to crank (still get a brief, deep, hum from somewhere while crankingl; the click, which comes from the starter specifically, is new), but it won't turn over.

So I'm thinking the odds against getting two bad starters in a row should be pretty high . . . but then again it's Schucks. But before I pull this one off and take it back too, can anyone think of any other reason I'd get power through the solenoid-to-motor cord when cranking, but it still wouldn't fire?
Try jump starting it, Sounds like low battery amperage to me.

I drove a wrecker for AAA for three years. Clicking is usually from not enough juice!

Hook up the cables, & let it charge up for at least 10-15 minutes before trying it.

Make sure there is no other drain on the battery, IE: doors closed, lights off, & no radio!
05-26-2009 10:34 PM
KTC new developments:

Got the multimeter out, tested power from solenoid to starter motor while cranking. Got .25 Volt, starter didn't work. Somebody mentioned before that if I get power to the motor from the solenoid while turning the key, and it still doesn't work, it's definitely a bad starter. So I took it off and exchanged it at schucks.

Put new one on, now I'm having the same problem with it. I get power to the motor from the solenoid (about .5 Volt this time), and now there's a clicking sound from the starter when someone tries to crank (still get a brief, deep, hum from somewhere while crankingl; the click, which comes from the starter specifically, is new), but it won't turn over.

So I'm thinking the odds against getting two bad starters in a row should be pretty high . . . but then again it's Schucks. But before I pull this one off and take it back too, can anyone think of any other reason I'd get power through the solenoid-to-motor cord when cranking, but it still wouldn't fire?
05-25-2009 10:27 PM
buckshot500
Quote:
Originally Posted by YjMopower View Post
yup iam pretty sure its properly connected the only thing it does when i try to start is a clicking sound.and when i use the direct connect method with the starter stated above it works can it be the solenoid some one told me to check the voltage regulator ?
I seriously doubt it's the voltage regulator, it doesn't have anything to do with starting.

I don't think the starter solenoid on the firewall is very expensive, if you can find one. While I'm not in favor of replacing any parts before they are known to be bad, if they are cheap it may save time & aggravation.

I would still manually test the ignition switch first though.
05-25-2009 10:22 PM
YjMopower yup iam pretty sure its properly connected the only thing it does when i try to start is a clicking sound.and when i use the direct connect method with the starter stated above it works can it be the solenoid some one told me to check the voltage regulator ?
05-25-2009 09:56 PM
buckshot500
Quote:
Originally Posted by YjMopower View Post
nope i replaced it.and it acutaully turned on a couple of times after that but now it wont even turn on.
Did you try re-adjusting the switch? It usually has a small amount of adjustment via slotted bolt holes. you could take the switch off, & test it by using a screwdriver to move it through all the positions.
05-25-2009 09:53 PM
YjMopower nope i replaced it.and it acutaully turned on a couple of times after that but now it wont even turn on.
05-25-2009 09:51 PM
jpdocdave i knew what you meant
05-25-2009 09:50 PM
buckshot500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshot500 View Post
Well I have been wrenching for 30+ years myself.
I had rebuilt, & even brand new starters & alternators that were bad.

Advance auto & auto zone can bench test your starter for free. Cant beat free!

While the guy testing it may not have a clue, it's worth a try.

Now that is my advice, if the original problem actually was the starter.

It could still have been the battery. A "Headlights on, while trying to start" test
would be the first thing I'd try. Then a jumpstart.

Failing these, I'd take a look at the ignition switch located on top of the steering column, under the dash.
Sorry 'bout that, not the starer switch, but the ignition switch!
Beer is clouding my memory!!!
05-25-2009 09:48 PM
buckshot500
Quote:
Originally Posted by YjMopower View Post
you can try giving your starter direct power by boosting your own jeep, you get jumper cables and on one side of the cables you put the red postive on the postive terminal on the battery ,the black negative on the negative terminal of the battery ,then on the other end of the cables you hook up the ground black negative wire to apart of your jeep thats metal, most likey frame parts then the red postive apply it to your starter theres like three bolts on the starter do not put it on the negative this will burn your wire out!, just switch between the two bolts ,when applying it all you want to do is put the red wire on the bolt for one good crank then you take it off and hit the other bolt ,so the starter stops spinning then repeat the process till it turns on.IMPORTANT YOU MUST HAVE YOUR JEEP ON ,PUT THE KEY TO THE ON POSTION ALL THE WAY TO THE END JUST BEFORE THE POINT WHERE YOU ACTUALLY START.if your jeep cranks most likey its not your starter this is how ive been turning my jeep on, anyone knows the how can i fix this problem to make it start regular from the key cylinder lol
Ignition switch, top of the column under the dash.
05-25-2009 09:42 PM
YjMopower you can try giving your starter direct power by boosting your own jeep, you get jumper cables and on one side of the cables you put the red postive on the postive terminal on the battery ,the black negative on the negative terminal of the battery ,then on the other end of the cables you hook up the ground black negative wire to apart of your jeep thats metal, most likey frame parts then the red postive apply it to your starter theres like three bolts on the starter do not put it on the negative this will burn your wire out!, just switch between the two bolts ,when applying it all you want to do is put the red wire on the bolt for one good crank then you take it off and hit the other bolt ,so the starter stops spinning then repeat the process till it turns on.IMPORTANT YOU MUST HAVE YOUR JEEP ON ,PUT THE KEY TO THE ON POSTION ALL THE WAY TO THE END JUST BEFORE THE POINT WHERE YOU ACTUALLY START.if your jeep cranks most likey its not your starter this is how ive been turning my jeep on, anyone knows the how can i fix this problem to make it start regular from the key cylinder lol
05-25-2009 09:36 PM
buckshot500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
i gotta keep saying it, i've seen more wrong answers from those idiots testing parts. and they usually take your part thats bad, and tell you its good.
Hey, I totally agree with you on this. But if you get someone who knows how to use the test bench, it may give you some insight.
05-25-2009 09:27 PM
jpdocdave i gotta keep saying it, i've seen more wrong answers from those idiots testing parts. and they usually take your part thats bad, and tell you its good.

i'd just replace it before going by their test. and again, tons of bad rebuild electrical parts out of the boxes, especially at the discount parts stores.
05-25-2009 09:23 PM
buckshot500 Well I have been wrenching for 30+ years myself.
I had rebuilt, & even brand new starters & alternators that were bad.

Advance auto & auto zone can bench test your starter for free. Cant beat free!

While the guy testing it may not have a clue, it's worth a try.

Now that is my advice, if the original problem actually was the starter.

It could still have been the battery. A "Headlights on, while trying to start" test
would be the first thing I'd try. Then a jumpstart.

Failing these, I'd take a look at the starter switch located on top of the steering column, under the dash.
05-25-2009 09:17 PM
KTC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
now i get it. glad you shed some light on that one

my other concern is how many ex wives do you have since you have to designate them by state?
Hahaha. "All my exes live in Texas, so I hang my hat in Tennessee."

Unfortunately for me, all my exes live in WA, mostly in the same county I do
05-25-2009 08:54 PM
jpdocdave
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAVYCHIEF View Post
cranky cranky, sounds like my ex-alabama red neck wife.
now i get it. glad you shed some light on that one

my other concern is how many ex wives do you have since you have to designate them by state?
05-25-2009 08:52 PM
NAVYCHIEF cranky cranky, sounds like my ex-alabama red neck wife.
05-25-2009 07:47 PM
jpdocdave sounds like you're on the right track. i can't picture a useless wire though, there's a positive, a ground, and a signal wire to the solenoid.

but you are right, constant 12 volts at solenoid, and when the key is cranked, that power needs to go to the motor. if power goes to the motor, and no cranky cranky, then the starter is bad. if there's no power going to the starte motor, then obviously the starter can't turn and something else is going on.
05-25-2009 06:21 PM
KTC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
then take it back regardless.\

yes, with a multimeter, what you need to do is put the negative lead to a good ground. the positive lead to the lug on the starter motor that gets power switched to it when the key is in crank position. you should have 10-12 volts depending on your battery. even a little less you'll get something out of your starter.

now, don't fool yourself. i think you said your solinoid is seperate, but if not there is a constant 12 volts on the solenoid, and solenoids now days are on the starter. so if it is, make sure you're testing power being at the motor, not solenoid.
K here's where I look even more like a n00b: the motor is the part with the teeth that lock into the flywheel, right? That makes the solenoid the little drum to the upper left of the starter motor, which connects directly to the battery and has a pos and neg terminal?

Out of the box, the starter looked exactly like my old one . . . big pos terminal (I think on the solenoid), little neg terminal (I think on the solenoid), and a thick, short, single wire connecting the solenoid to the motor, already attached.

The only thing that was different from my old one, is there was a gold spade connector on the small, negative terminal. Instructions said it was the solenoid terminal, and I should use it if my solenoid is separate (weird that it came with that instruction, since my solenoid is attached). So I left the lonely spade terminal alone (my old starter didn't have an analogous terminal), and next time I was underneath messing around, I took it off and got rid of it.

Like I said at the beginning, this starter worked once, and gave me a beautiful start. Seems like that one start blew a wire from the starter relay, and I don't know what else it did.

Sorry to ramble, I'm at the point where I'm checking out everything. So just to be sure: that little gold spade terminal is probably useless? And I should always get power to the pos and neg terminals on the solenoid? Then when someone cranks the engine, I should have the positive multimeter post on the single, thick wire between the solenoid and the starter, negative post on the vehicle body somewhere?

This is really getting fun. I don't mean that sarcastically.
05-25-2009 05:38 PM
jpdocdave
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTC View Post
This is officially gonna be my first time using a multimeter. Kind of exciting. So when I'm underneath, and starter is hooked up . . . do I just touch the probes to pos and neg terminal on starter, while somebody turns the key? What voltage should I read?

I'm halfway hoping it's a bad starter, because the parts girl at schucks is fucken cute.
then take it back regardless.\

yes, with a multimeter, what you need to do is put the negative lead to a good ground. the positive lead to the lug on the starter motor that gets power switched to it when the key is in crank position. you should have 10-12 volts depending on your battery. even a little less you'll get something out of your starter.

now, don't fool yourself. i think you said your solinoid is seperate, but if not there is a constant 12 volts on the solenoid, and solenoids now days are on the starter. so if it is, make sure you're testing power being at the motor, not solenoid.
05-25-2009 05:36 PM
KTC
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAVYCHIEF View Post
I whacked my ex alabama wife with a hammer and it actually slowed her down. oh, i'm sorry should have used a bigger hammer. p.s. her neck was red.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Right before I read that I was thinking about the last time I changed the starter in my Jeep, and my then girlfriend (who later became wife and ex-wife) thought it would be funny to sit on the bumper and bounce up and down. If I hadn't loved the girl so much, that would have been the definition of hammertime.
05-25-2009 05:33 PM
KTC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
yes, you need a friend and a test light, if power is there while cranking, and starter isn't working its bad. if no power is there, then its not the starter.

idiot zone is a waste of time. they give false positive results on those parts more than they're accurate. then you go back, put the part back in cuz they said its fine, and after a few more days of banging your head, you replace the part they said was good, and now you're fixed.

but like i said, you gotta know if power is going to the starter motor, when the key is in the crank positoin, bottom line. everything else is just guessing.
This is officially gonna be my first time using a multimeter. Kind of exciting. So when I'm underneath, and starter is hooked up . . . do I just touch the probes to pos and neg terminal on starter, while somebody turns the key? What voltage should I read?

I'm halfway hoping it's a bad starter, because the parts girl at schucks is fucken cute.
This thread has more than 30 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC