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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-25-2013 01:13 PM
Geno FYI to the OP.

I replaced mine with a unit I bought off ebay for $100. Me and a buddy changed it out in about 3 hours. We took out time as it was our first working on a Jeep engine. A couple of the nuts on the underside were tough, but not too tough.
05-25-2013 12:45 PM
TreeClimber1
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post
Great program I wish more youngsters would do the same, there really is a severe shortage of quality young Techs.
True here. Probably true everywhere. Sad.
05-25-2013 11:46 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisbman View Post
I think we would have a hard time doing the percentage thing. Some of our builds are 75k and more. Could you imagine the customer getting a bill for $7500 for nuts n bolts. They would shit their pants.
Not at all, no one says you have to charge 10%. How about 1%, or even half of 1%?

I keep a rough mental tally and adjust the percentage accordingly. If I burn up a lot of flap discs, brake cleaner, and disposables because someone put 30 coats of Duplicolor rattle can bedliner on their frame (true), then I bump it up a few points.

It's not an exact science but as you go through a build, you develop of sense of where it is on the overall scale of things you've done before and it hurts no one to react accordingly.
05-25-2013 11:38 AM
flflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisbman View Post
I think we would have a hard time doing the percentage thing. Some of our builds are 75k and more. Could you imagine the customer getting a bill for $7500 for nuts n bolts. They would shit their pants.
I just kinda assumened everyone would realize thats $10 or 10% whichever is less.....I guess that makes both of us azz's huh?
05-25-2013 10:44 AM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post

I don't have one, no. I don't have room for one. I have a 500 gal. underground waste oil tank. And yes, it is monitored.
Need to find some of those diesel junkies that burn that crap in their enormous trucks!
05-25-2013 10:38 AM
Patrick H
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisbman View Post
Waste oil furnace???
I don't have one, no. I don't have room for one. I have a 500 gal. underground waste oil tank. And yes, it is monitored.
05-25-2013 10:34 AM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post

I don't charge supply fees on LOF or minor repairs. In other words, if I don't use enough supplies to warrant it, I don't charge for it. One thing I might have to change though is waste disposal for used oil. I do not charge for that, but it's not cheap when the waste oil tank gets emptied. I remember when the waste company actually paid for the used oil, but, things are different now.

And yes, just because I charge $85 an hour, doesn't mean I make $85 an hour..Contrary to some beliefs.
Waste oil furnace???
05-25-2013 10:31 AM
Patrick H
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post
Our shop does 10% or $10 on shop fees plus there's no shop fee on minor maintainece like Oil Changes, Tire rotaions etc. I feel thats fair even thogh I'm sure if I really tracked it were loosing money on shop supplies.

Labor rates in this area are controlled by Insurance companies, the State Dealership Association and the Manufactuarer ( if you don't meet all their Customer Satisfaction and Training Standards your required charge a lower rate ) we also have different rates depending on the job. Maintainence has the lowest rate, light mechanical is next, heavy mechanical then electrical and driveability the most. We do this so the Customer isnt overcharged for the easy jobs and yet we can still afford to pay our Top Techs fairly for the difficult work they do.

The business is a lot more complicated than the average customer understands.....we actually have some customers that believe Techs are paid over a $100 per hour
I don't charge supply fees on LOF or minor repairs. In other words, if I don't use enough supplies to warrant it, I don't charge for it. One thing I might have to change though is waste disposal for used oil. I do not charge for that, but it's not cheap when the waste oil tank gets emptied. I remember when the waste company actually paid for the used oil, but, things are different now.

And yes, just because I charge $85 an hour, doesn't mean I make $85 an hour..Contrary to some beliefs.
05-25-2013 10:31 AM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post
Our shop does 10% or $10 on shop fees plus there's no shop fee on minor maintainece like Oil Changes, Tire rotaions etc. I feel thats fair even thogh I'm sure if I really tracked it were loosing money on shop supplies.

Labor rates in this area are controlled by Insurance companies, the State Dealership Association and the Manufactuarer ( if you don't meet all their Customer Satisfaction and Training Standards your required charge a lower rate ) we also have different rates depending on the job. Maintainence has the lowest rate, light mechanical is next, heavy mechanical then electrical and driveability the most. We do this so the Customer isnt overcharged for the easy jobs and yet we can still afford to pay our Top Techs fairly for the difficult work they do.

The business is a lot more complicated than the average customer understands.....we actually have some customers that believe Techs are paid over a $100 per hour
I think we would have a hard time doing the percentage thing. Some of our builds are 75k and more. Could you imagine the customer getting a bill for $7500 for nuts n bolts. They would shit their pants.
05-25-2013 10:27 AM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post

Exactly. Zip ties, for example, are purchased thousands at a time. I don't remember how much I paid last year for a thousand zip ties, and even if I did, I never calculated the individual cost..
Yes, this is why i dont write crap like that down, my co worker on the other hand... Every single thing is wrote down, dude spends more time filling out parts lists, time sheets and walking around eating cans of tuna fish all day than he does working and when he does work its at a snails pace.
05-25-2013 10:26 AM
flflash Our shop does 10% or $10 on shop fees plus there's no shop fee on minor maintainece like Oil Changes, Tire rotaions etc. I feel thats fair even thogh I'm sure if I really tracked it were loosing money on shop supplies.

Labor rates in this area are controlled by Insurance companies, the State Dealership Association and the Manufactuarer ( if you don't meet all their Customer Satisfaction and Training Standards your required charge a lower rate ) we also have different rates depending on the job. Maintainence has the lowest rate, light mechanical is next, heavy mechanical then electrical and driveability the most. We do this so the Customer isnt overcharged for the easy jobs and yet we can still afford to pay our Top Techs fairly for the difficult work they do.

The business is a lot more complicated than the average customer understands.....we actually have some customers that believe Techs are paid over a $100 per hour
05-25-2013 10:23 AM
Patrick H
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisbman View Post
Not enough to spend 2 minutes to write it down, thats how much.
Exactly. Zip ties, for example, are purchased thousands at a time. I don't remember how much I paid last year for a thousand zip ties, and even if I did, I never calculated the individual cost..
05-25-2013 10:21 AM
Patrick H
Quote:
Originally Posted by callbob View Post
and plasti dip
I thought you were done riding that horse Bob? You see me almost every week at work. Were you counting the empty Plasti-Dip cans in the trash?
05-25-2013 10:21 AM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post

That's why I said "most normal" jobs. The majority of my tickets are under $500. My supply charge is not exact, but it is based on what I actually used. As stated, I can't itemize every fluid ounce of chemical, or every terminal and zip tie. How much does one zip tie cost?
Not enough to spend 2 minutes to write it down, thats how much.
05-25-2013 10:19 AM
Patrick H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
I have some jobs that have over 10 grand in parts and then the labor to finish off the project. I usually do a small percentage. 1% or so of the total.
That's why I said "most normal" jobs. The majority of my tickets are under $500. My supply charge is not exact, but it is based on what I actually used. As stated, I can't itemize every fluid ounce of chemical, or every terminal and zip tie. How much does one zip tie cost?
05-25-2013 10:12 AM
callbob and plasti dip
05-25-2013 10:11 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post
My shop is pretty small, as in I am the only tech., and I complete every work order. I try to base my supply charge on how much of any given supply(s) I use. On most normal jobs, I charge $6, $8, or $12 depending on what was actually used.
It can be tough though. Say I service a rear differential and install a trailer hitch, brake controller, and charging setup on one vehicle..That can add up to a lot of solvent, sealer, zip ties, wiring terminals, heat shrink, etc.
I have some jobs that have over 10 grand in parts and then the labor to finish off the project. I usually do a small percentage. 1% or so of the total.
05-25-2013 10:11 AM
flflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeClimber1 View Post
You an old fart. I started in dealerships in 1984. You got me beat by 5 years.
Aw come on I'm a young 53 I enrolled in what is now called the ASEP program my Jr year of high school 1977. Did a half day of school then 1 to 5:30 at a Pontiac Buick GMC dealer 3 days a week and Seminole Community College 2 days a week for 2 years 1/2 days at school and work during the summer. Great program I wish more youngsters would do the same, there really is a severe shortage of quality young Techs. Worked for Uncle Sam after grad and went fulltime dealership in 84 we're tied "Old Fart"
05-25-2013 09:57 AM
Patrick H My shop is pretty small, as in I am the only tech., and I complete every work order. I try to base my supply charge on how much of any given supply(s) I use. On most normal jobs, I charge $6, $8, or $12 depending on what was actually used.
It can be tough though. Say I service a rear differential and install a trailer hitch, brake controller, and charging setup on one vehicle..That can add up to a lot of solvent, sealer, zip ties, wiring terminals, heat shrink, etc.
05-25-2013 09:28 AM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post

The shop supply fee is a tough one. All that stuff has to get into the shop somehow and it's not exactly free and at the end of the day, it adds up to a not insignificant amount.

I know I spend 100's of dollars on shop towels, cable ties, hardware, nuts, bolts, washers, RTV of 4 or 5 kinds, brake fluid, WD-40, Kroil, Simple Green, Brake cleaner, and what not.

There isn't a car I work on that I don't use "shop supplies" in some manner.

That leaves you with a few choices, absorb the cost, price it out per item and add it to the bill, or do the shop supply fee.

Itemizing 5 zip ties, 3 squirts of WD-40, 4 dirty shop towels, 1 bolt, washer, and nut in 3/8's not only looks petty and silly, but it's also nearly impossible to track reliably.

The way it's done at the RV shop my neighbor works at is not something I would like either. If they use a squirt of roof cleaner, you buy the whole can. Same goes for caulking, slide-out lube and cleaner, rolls of putty tape, roof repair tape, and similar. He has boxes of the stuff that the customers paid for and left behind each with just a bit used from them.

You got a better idea, I'm all ears because there is no way I'm going to charge someone for a few zip ties and yet, they still have make it to the shelf somehow.
Yes this is tough. Im the lead painter at our fab shop but i also do the body work and some welding and assembly. We are supposed to itemize everything we use, nuts bolts rags etc. what i usually do to start off is just put down 1 roll of shop towels, 1 box of gloves. If i use a bolt or nut for something random or a few spritzes of semi gloss black/ spray lube etc i seldom write it down. I do keep track of my masking paper, tape, hardware for final assembly and i bill out the paint materials per customer along with bondo, wax& grease remover etc. let me tell you its a royal pain in the ass, i hate it. I know theres a better way and i dont feel its my job to have to write all this crap down at the end of my work day.
05-25-2013 08:56 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiller0737 View Post
Depends on where in the USA you are average around here is $100 where I work we are @ $103 + They add a shop supply fee to every Ticket (That I don't agree with)
The shop supply fee is a tough one. All that stuff has to get into the shop somehow and it's not exactly free and at the end of the day, it adds up to a not insignificant amount.

I know I spend 100's of dollars on shop towels, cable ties, hardware, nuts, bolts, washers, RTV of 4 or 5 kinds, brake fluid, WD-40, Kroil, Simple Green, Brake cleaner, and what not.

There isn't a car I work on that I don't use "shop supplies" in some manner.

That leaves you with a few choices, absorb the cost, price it out per item and add it to the bill, or do the shop supply fee.

Itemizing 5 zip ties, 3 squirts of WD-40, 4 dirty shop towels, 1 bolt, washer, and nut in 3/8's not only looks petty and silly, but it's also nearly impossible to track reliably.

The way it's done at the RV shop my neighbor works at is not something I would like either. If they use a squirt of roof cleaner, you buy the whole can. Same goes for caulking, slide-out lube and cleaner, rolls of putty tape, roof repair tape, and similar. He has boxes of the stuff that the customers paid for and left behind each with just a bit used from them.

You got a better idea, I'm all ears because there is no way I'm going to charge someone for a few zip ties and yet, they still have make it to the shelf somehow.
05-25-2013 07:53 AM
boomer_95
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiller0737 View Post
Depends on where in the USA you are average around here is $100 where I work we are @ $103 + They add a shop supply fee to every Ticket (That I don't agree with)
most shops have the shop supply fee. brake cleaner and penetrating lube isn't cheep...

$103 is quite a bit! i work at a small engine dealership, and were @ $80

as for the OP, if you think you can do it, and have lots of help from mechanically inclined friends, and read threw a manual a few times, then go for it
05-25-2013 07:12 AM
gmiller0737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayko View Post
Most shops charge flat rate about about $80. per hr.
Depends on where in the USA you are average around here is $100 where I work we are @ $103 + They add a shop supply fee to every Ticket (That I don't agree with)
05-25-2013 12:16 AM
TreeClimber1
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post
LOL, Is it a full moon out tonight?

I never called anyone a "Hack" I'm not sure how your reading that into my comments? Just so you know I'm also an automotive technician and currently the shop foreman at a GM dealership. I've been making a living in this business since the late 70's. Before that I worked at my fathers independent shop from the time I could pick up a wrench.

No Technician/Mechanic basher here! But do know I will not except any shoddy work ethics.
You an old fart. I started in dealerships in 1984. You got me beat by 5 years.
05-24-2013 10:52 PM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post

LOL, Is it a full moon out tonight?

I never called anyone a "Hack" I'm not sure how your reading that into my comments? Just so you know I'm also an automotive technician and currently the shop foreman at a GM dealership. I've been making a living in this business since the late 70's. Before that I worked at my fathers independent shop from the time I could pick up a wrench.

No Technician/Mechanic basher here! But do know I will not except any shoddy work ethics.
Just the insinuating of cutting corners/ shortcuts etc. no worrys man. And generally a hack wont last long at any reputable shop.
05-24-2013 10:29 PM
flflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisbman View Post
So because he beats time hes a hack??? Every tech i know does the job complete and takes pride in their work. Beating time is the only way a flat rate tech will ever make a living. I was a collision painter for years and I could regularly flag 20 hours a day, doing the job correct.
LOL, Is it a full moon out tonight?

I never called anyone a "Hack" I'm not sure how your reading that into my comments? Just so you know I'm also an automotive technician and currently the shop foreman at a GM dealership. I've been making a living in this business since the late 70's. Before that I worked at my fathers independent shop from the time I could pick up a wrench.

No Technician/Mechanic basher here! But do know I will not except any shoddy work ethics.
05-24-2013 10:19 PM
rgroesbeck1 As others have said, you know your abilities. If you are unsure, and if you don't have a trusted person to guide/assist you with the process, you should consider paying a skilled technician to do the work. Good technicians are proud of their work and know their continued success hinges on delivering quality at an appropriate price. Like Blaine said, there are things I will do and things I will not do. I rebuilt engines when I was in high school and my friends sought me out to help. But I have never dived into a differential and I won't.
05-24-2013 10:05 PM
krisbman
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post

I disagree on your synopsis of the situation but I really don't care to run the thread off track. I will say that the Best way for a Technician to make a Good living for a long time is to always do Quality work at a Fair price.
So because he beats time hes a hack??? Every tech i know does the job complete and takes pride in their work. Beating time is the only way a flat rate tech will ever make a living. I was a collision painter for years and I could regularly flag 20 hours a day, doing the job correct.
05-24-2013 09:45 PM
flflash As long as you don't take short cuts that effect the quality and reliabilty of the job and install every part the customer paid for I have no problems with your comments and agree.
We both know that the current estimating guides are pretty close to being on the money beating their time by 40% and doing a quality job is rather far fetched.

If you ever relocate to the Central Florida area and are in search of a job look me up. I like the way you think.
05-24-2013 09:33 PM
TreeClimber1
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post
I disagree on your synopsis of the situation but I really don't care to run the thread off track. I will say that the Best way for a Technician to make a Good living for a long time is to always do Quality work at a Fair price.
True, if you're referring to the 'Shop', but not true if you're referring to the Tech/Mechanic. The Tech is paid to do the job correctly, cleanly, professionally AND as fast as he or she can. If the skill of the Tech is such, that they are faster than the book, they should be compensated for having achieved that skill. OR, if they have invested in tools which are superior to, and allow them to save time, they should still be compensated for having invested.
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