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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-19-2013 04:39 AM
TOK I laughed and did an "oh Chrysler!" the first time I looked under the JK and saw the loop. I think they did it to maintain equal length tubes, which is good for torque.

Its actually solid engineering... If you've driven the Pentastar in any of the cars its used in, its a revvy engine. I think they pulled every trick they could to get the extra torque that suits the JK's intended use.
07-19-2013 12:47 AM
David M Hopefully, with whatever engine Jeep utilizes in 2016, that they'll re-engineer the Pentatick's crazy exhaust loop.

I'm pretty sure that Jeeps current exhaust designer was a drag racer in his youth.

07-19-2013 12:24 AM
wrangler0232
Quote:
Originally Posted by legitposter View Post
Jeep will never listen to forums because the forums are filled with true Jeepers. That's a small percentage of the overall buyers.

Most buyers are like me... The Daily drivers. These people (me) would prefer thick non-removeable doors that help block sound more, a slanted non-foldable windshield that cuts down on costs and helps with gas mileage, and better aerodynamics. I'd also like the spare removed ,TASTEFULLY not ugly, with an inflation kit included instead. I'd also like some modernized headlights, like the Grand Cherokee's, with HID as an option.

So what's my point? True Jeepers have different tastes than the daily driver type, and the daily driver type makes up a considerably larger chunk of the sales. So don't expect Jeep/Fiat to take ideas from the forum.
if you want that and you want them to do that to a jeep then y don't you go drive an import and not buy a jeep you can look at the jeep and tell its not for good gas mileage or amazing comfort so if your going to complain about it DONT BUY A JEEP as simple as that
07-18-2013 11:57 PM
tontwins I hope they make a better tailgate design I hate how I can't open the window to grab something
07-12-2013 07:52 AM
Rubi513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtone1583 View Post
This.

From the same guy who posted this about his own Jeep.


I see your point, but he isn't trying to change the jeep. That is a big difference in my book. Whether or not he uses the jeep to what its designed for is his business. The other guy wants it to be another typical 4 wheel drive suv.
07-12-2013 06:30 AM
Rtone1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeymonster View Post
Non removable doors? Did I hear that right? Shame on you. Don't call yourself a jeeper. Take it back. You own a jeep but you're not a true Jeeper.
Just because you have one doesn't make you one. Especially after that comment

Attachment 261589
This.

From the same guy who posted this about his own Jeep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeymonster View Post
Love black.
looks the best when clean and the worst when dirty. Mine is a show toy and Not a DD. So its under a dust cover and shiny clean always. I like that people cannot buy black because of these reasons. Makes mine stand out even more. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeymonster View Post
Not a mudder.
Bring it out for showing off. Woodward Cruise. Veterans, Memorial and car shows ext.. parades it get run in. Weekend rides , no rain days. Stays under a cover.
06-18-2013 12:04 AM
JKBrad
Quote:
A more raked FIXED windshield, a hard roof, half doors and pillarless glass. That would make the jeep plenty open like this...
It's been done before



Expect it again if the 2dr's wheelbase can't be used anymore



If Jeep sold this ^ in the US, I'd trade my 2dr in for one. Give a full length hard top and half doors with roll up windows and it would be almost like a modern day Commando.
06-17-2013 10:56 PM
Hokieneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcraftllc View Post
Oh just the doors and b pillar is all I meant. I guess "complex" really wasn't the best word for it, more like "higher parts count" I guess?

Also I'm totally on board with the diesel, not only for cafe standards, but also for the increased range and low end torque! Might even increase the tow capacity, especially in the longer wheel based JKU.
Ah I gotcha now, def has more parts

Yeah a diesel would be awesome! I hope they up the tow rating for the next gen also but I think that is more of a frame and breaking capacity then power though. Just think about all that torque, would make turning 37's real easy and still in the mid 20's mpg!
06-17-2013 10:34 PM
xcraftllc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokieneer View Post
How is a JKU more complex?


I still think a diesel is the ace in the hole for cafe standards for a 2 door it will meet them no problem

Oh just the doors and b pillar is all I meant. I guess "complex" really wasn't the best word for it, more like "higher parts count" I guess?

Also I'm totally on board with the diesel, not only for cafe standards, but also for the increased range and low end torque! Might even increase the tow capacity, especially in the longer wheel based JKU.
06-17-2013 07:27 PM
overkill8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
I never said anything about independent suspension. Dropping the windshield on a JK is not only a stupidly long process, but it makes the jeep look like crap, compromises safety, compromises offroad ability (try driving in Moab without a windshield, you'll be dustblind real fast) and is just a pain in the a$$. Furthermore, I have yet to hear of a person folding down a JK windshield that put it back up and didn't have leaks. It's a worthless feature that adds cost, complexity, compromises strength, and is a feature it can easily lose. The original Jeep had leafsprings, doesn't mean it's a good idea to keep them around.

I wouldn't mind having a rig with some features on the green one...



A more raked FIXED windshield, a hard roof, half doors and pillarless glass. That would make the jeep plenty open like this...
ummmm how the hell can I shoot zombies in front of my jeep without busting out the glass??? pfft
06-17-2013 06:04 PM
MudRunner Hopefully Jeep wont get slack on the codes names like they did with the newest grand Cherokee. The WK2, really? Hopefully they don't.just call it a JK2....
06-17-2013 05:43 PM
Mark b
Quote:
Originally Posted by WatchThis! View Post
Actually lots of people were very happy to see the TJs replace the YJ.
That's how I remember it too.

In fact.... instead of every new model hated, it kinda cycles back and forth.

CJ - Awesome
YJ'S - Meh
TJ - Awesome
JK - Meh
2016 - ?

I always get in trouble when I make lists.
06-17-2013 05:32 PM
WatchThis!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JandS View Post

When the CJ was replaced with the YJ, everyone said Jeep sold out and the "true Jeep" was dead. Same thing when the TJ came out. It happened again when the JK "just kidding" came out. It will FOR SURE happen on the next redseign.

Despite all of the negative nancies, each generation has been more capable than the last. A stock JK or JKU will destroy a CJ on the trails, in the mud, or on rocks. The electronic nannies coming in the redesign will add to capability as well, but people will cry and moan about them anyways. You heard it here first.
Actually lots of people were very happy to see the TJs replace the YJ.

Personally I don't want any of the "real jeeps" in stock form, not to wheel at least. All the people that talk about how bad ass and tough they are obviously never wheeled them on anything harder then the beach.
06-17-2013 05:18 PM
JandS
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
I'll never drop the windshield, but I love how it looks and knowing that I can.

Among the few things I appreciate about Chrysler is that the company has resisted selling the Wrangler out- in a time when a lot of companies cave (Hummer, anyone?), the Wrangler has kept most everything that makes it a Wrangler- hood tie downs, solid axles, removable tops, offroad abilities, etc.

S
When the CJ was replaced with the YJ, everyone said Jeep sold out and the "true Jeep" was dead. Same thing when the TJ came out. It happened again when the JK "just kidding" came out. It will FOR SURE happen on the next redseign.


Despite all of the negative nancies, each generation has been more capable than the last. A stock JK or JKU will destroy a CJ on the trails, in the mud, or on rocks. The electronic nannies coming in the redesign will add to capability as well, but people will cry and moan about them anyways. You heard it here first.
06-17-2013 04:09 PM
Hokieneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Dennis View Post
Agreed, but they don't make them anymore, do they? And they were good for four wheeling, not running the kids around, they just happaned to be the right technology for the money in 1983.
I have to disagree with you there My old WJ was great at just about everything, I don't have kids but I grew up with that jeep and it was good offroad but it was just as good running around town, getting half ton of concrete, and getting me home safe in some of the worst conditions, So to say it was only good offroad is selling XJ's and WJ's a bit short. My argument was that there is still a place for vehicles that have solid axles front and rear. I agree that IFS is muuuuch better in cars would I want my evo to have a couple D30's absolutly not! But it has been my personal experience that IFS suffers in heavy vehicles lets take a couple other vehicles my family has had-09 Buick enclave with IFS and sure out of the gate it handled the highway better but at about 25k its performance had decreased substantially it had a lot of body roll, break dive, and no longer absorbed bumps very well. by 50k they replaced the struts and springs and it was better for a while. by 100k it needs it done again as well as a few other components that have worn out. The other was an Chrysler town and country that liked to eat suspension components every 25k. my family lives on a normal paved road and they don't do anything crazy with their vehicles just a lot of highway miles. Over the same period of time my WJ only cracked a set of bearings and needed shocks at 150K and honestly I just replaced those because they were getting squeaky not because the ride quality had decreased. I realize I am probably one of the only people in modern society advocating bringing back live axles to a wider range of vehicles but I honestly believe they last better in the long run in heavy vehicles and I don't feel they handle any worse than IFS especially when you get some mileage on both system. Rant over let the flames begin!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcraftllc View Post
I'd even go as far as to say that with how well JKs are selling, how cool would it be if they offered a Jeep like this from the factory, like an LJ, it offers the nice long wheel base, sacraficing a bit of turning radius and break-over angle, but without gaining much weight, cost or complexity like a JKU:
How is a JKU more complex?

Quote:
Originally Posted by live_slow View Post
Thank you!
I wasn't talking about sales myself, but are correct. Keeping the JK (2DR) is going to get harder on the CAFE side.

It's heavy but it takes up less physical space, and that's what gets you in the new standards.

(I guess no one was really interested in that possibility since the fines per unit sold that don't meet the new CAFE are exceptionally low, hardly enough to notice for now. Or the manf. may have negotiated a new class that isn't published yet for smaller, heavier purpose built (and oddly enough, luxury) vehicles)

But if a "small" Wrangler, meaning short wheel base, two door, is around after too many more years, it will indeed have to have significant changes.
I still think a diesel is the ace in the hole for cafe standards for a 2 door it will meet them no problem
06-17-2013 03:36 PM
live_slow
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Dennis View Post
Look at how the Unlimited is out selling the two-door. The fact that they have kept the two door is impressive.
Thank you!
I wasn't talking about sales myself, but are correct. Keeping the JK (2DR) is going to get harder on the CAFE side.

It's heavy but it takes up less physical space, and that's what gets you in the new standards.

(I guess no one was really interested in that possibility since the fines per unit sold that don't meet the new CAFE are exceptionally low, hardly enough to notice for now. Or the manf. may have negotiated a new class that isn't published yet for smaller, heavier purpose built (and oddly enough, luxury) vehicles)

But if a "small" Wrangler, meaning short wheel base, two door, is around after too many more years, it will indeed have to have significant changes.
06-17-2013 03:16 PM
xcraftllc
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Dennis View Post
Look at how the Unlimited is out selling the two-door. The fact that they have kept the two door is impressive. You don't see Ford Broncos or Chevy Blazers anymore; GM/Ford allowed the four-door Tahoe/Expedition to take over, for that matter Jeep never made a two door Liberty after the XJ was replaced.
Yep, the JKU now firmly has a place in the Jeep world, although there was resistance at first. I drive a 2-door and still prefer it to a 4 door. I'm sure if I had a couple kids that would be a bit different. The 2-door is lighter, cheaper, simpler, has a tighter turning radius, and a better break-over angle, while the 4-door has a better climbing wheelbase and rear drive train geometry. It depends on what your priorities are I guess.

I'm sure glad they offer both and I'm sure they are too if you know what I mean ($$$$$$). The sales of the JK are off the charts, especially when compared with FJ cruisers and the like. Look around, you'll probably notice that JKs are now pretty much the most common Jeep driving, so hopefully Jeep runs with this.

I'd even go as far as to say that with how well JKs are selling, how cool would it be if they offered a Jeep like this from the factory, like an LJ, it offers the nice long wheel base, sacraficing a bit of turning radius and break-over angle, but without gaining much weight, cost or complexity like a JKU:

JKL Conversions |
06-17-2013 02:42 PM
DC Dennis
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
Right, but how many are 4 doors? They could have sold out once they went the 4-door SUV route, but they didn't- they kept the unlimited just as off-road friendly and "historically Jeep" as the 2-door.
Look at how the Unlimited is out selling the two-door. The fact that they have kept the two door is impressive. You don't see Ford Broncos or Chevy Blazers anymore; GM/Ford allowed the four-door Tahoe/Expedition to take over, for that matter Jeep never made a two door Liberty after the XJ was replaced.
06-17-2013 01:56 PM
thinkxingu
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1quick1 View Post

Why would they? Have you seen the sales numbers that grow every year? These things are selling like hot cakes.
Right, but how many are 4 doors? They could have sold out once they went the 4-door SUV route, but they didn't- they kept the unlimited just as off-road friendly and "historically Jeep" as the 2-door.
06-17-2013 01:36 PM
Dogzilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by geronimo.tn View Post
wow,,, that hard top with half doors is exactly what I want///
Me too...I LOVE that. And it's a great color too.
06-17-2013 01:11 PM
Fellows I'd like them to include homelink. I'd just wish they'd offer homelink now. Make it a Mopar accessory or something. I'll gladly trade in my auto dimming mirror for it. With a giant tire and tinted rear window in the way, auto dimming mirrors are the last feature I would have included on the Wrangler.
06-17-2013 12:07 PM
n00g7 Leather seats, seat warmer (w/o all the other electrical BS), D60, not-so-shitty interior option, frame/underbody coating from the factory, factory bedlined tub, diesel. Give me half of that and you have my money.
06-17-2013 11:40 AM
DC Dennis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokieneer View Post
I don't know XJ's and WJ's seem to make pretty good use of them and I really wish the new cherokee was just built on a JKU frame with a 242 transfer case in them, that would be great for my parents especially for winter. while I agree a wrangler should stay a convertible there are perfectly good reasons for 2 live axles namely longevity here in WV our roads can get pretty torn up, my evo has already been through a set of shocks only 40k miles in my old WJ only broke a couple of sets of bearings in 200K miles and that was from me being stupid
Agreed, but they don't make them anymore, do they? And they were good for four wheeling, not running the kids around, they just happaned to be the right technology for the money in 1983.

The JK buyers who are not hard core wheelers are buying them for the cache that comes with it, not for the comfort.

What would I like for a 2016? The same basic architecture, with a windshield that is easier to fold, or easily removed all together. Spend the extra $200 in steel and make the roll cage seperate from the windshield. It will give it all cooler style on top of the additional safety and convienance.

As for comfort items, leave them, or even add more for all I care, to the Sahara, and optional on the Rubicon. However, get rid of the Sport name altogether, make it just the Base and Base S, no outside additional badgeing and make it stripped out of EVERYTHING that is not required by the DOT regs. Would love to see even the rear seat optional like the old days of the CJ/YJ. Get rid of the steering wheel controls provide vinyl seats and no carpet and you could make the top optional too!
06-17-2013 11:39 AM
legitposter
06-17-2013 11:27 AM
DC Dennis
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOK View Post
I get what you're saying, but I actually think a permanent built-in sheet metal roof would be $4000 more, not $2k less... It would require all new body stampings, interior trim and headliner.

I just don't see them building something that requires that much extra work and selling it for less.
Agreed.

The Suzuki Samari was available in a fixed steel hard top, which if I remember correctly was more expensive than the soft top. Steel is more expensive than cloth and building body on frame, versus a unibody, cuts down on the additional stiffing that an open top needs.
06-17-2013 11:20 AM
DC Dennis
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcraftllc View Post
All this fighting is going a little overboard. I'd imagine that if a Jeep designer was reading this thread, they'd probably stop around page 3.

With regard the the windshield, I think the points made have been both right and wrong. It's true that the JK's windshield is almost too difficult to be worth it. Many have mentioned that as long as you're going through the effort to fold it, you might as well just completely take it off and make sure it doesn't get damaged, since it's huge and curved, and aparently it's heavy and flops around a bit when folded down on the trail so it's only practical to do on a beach or similar.

BUT....as far as being something they should get rid of, I disagree, they just need to improve the design to make it more practical. That doesn't mean they have to make it more complicated and expensive. They might just make it something that can be more easily removed and stored in the back or left at the rented beach house, so as long as you're just on the beach or a trail in a humid (not dusty) environment with good old windshield smashing branches, you'd enjoy a free unobstructed motorcycle like view.
A few cotter pins, ala a Humvee, and two screws to secure it from theft/kids which would enable it to be removed all together would be AWESOME.
06-17-2013 11:17 AM
Bone
Quote:
Originally Posted by legitposter View Post
Jeep will never listen to forums because the forums are filled with true Jeepers. That's a small percentage of the overall buyers.

Most buyers are like me... The Daily drivers. These people (me) would prefer thick non-removeable doors that help block sound more, a slanted non-foldable windshield that cuts down on costs and helps with gas mileage, and better aerodynamics. I'd also like the spare removed ,TASTEFULLY not ugly, with an inflation kit included instead. I'd also like some modernized headlights, like the Grand Cherokee's, with HID as an option.

So what's my point? True Jeepers have different tastes than the daily driver type, and the daily driver type makes up a considerably larger chunk of the sales. So don't expect Jeep/Fiat to take ideas from the forum.
Well, hopefully not from YOU at least.
06-17-2013 10:56 AM
1quick1
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
Among the few things I appreciate about Chrysler is that the company has resisted selling the Wrangler out- in a time when a lot of companies cave (Hummer, anyone?), the Wrangler has kept most everything that makes it a Wrangler- hood tie downs, solid axles, removable tops, offroad abilities, etc.

S
Why would they? Have you seen the sales numbers that grow every year? These things are selling like hot cakes.
06-17-2013 10:48 AM
live_slow
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcraftllc View Post
BUT....as far as being something they should get rid of, I disagree, they just need to improve the design to make it more practical. That doesn't mean they have to make it more complicated and expensive. They might just make it something that can be more easily removed and stored in the back or left at the rented beach house, so as long as you're just on the beach or a trail in a humid (not dusty) environment with good old windshield smashing branches, you'd enjoy a free unobstructed motorcycle like view.
This is probably the most appropriate compromise for the money -- a windhshield that is more aerodynamic (they have to do something in that regard) that you could remove and leave at the trailhead rather than fold down. In whatever jurisdictions that still exist where no windshield is required for on road use, you'd just leave it at the house.

They could even have some snap in plastic bits to cover the mounting area for when it was off (and then the aftermarket could make a better, cooler one with skulls on it!).

The purist in me says "Yes the windshield has to fold down" but the realist says they're going to have to rake it back too much for MPG reasons to still have it fold.
06-17-2013 08:17 AM
xcraftllc All this fighting is going a little overboard. I'd imagine that if a Jeep designer was reading this thread, they'd probably stop around page 3.

With regard the the windshield, I think the points made have been both right and wrong. It's true that the JK's windshield is almost too difficult to be worth it. Many have mentioned that as long as you're going through the effort to fold it, you might as well just completely take it off and make sure it doesn't get damaged, since it's huge and curved, and aparently it's heavy and flops around a bit when folded down on the trail so it's only practical to do on a beach or similar.

BUT....as far as being something they should get rid of, I disagree, they just need to improve the design to make it more practical. That doesn't mean they have to make it more complicated and expensive. They might just make it something that can be more easily removed and stored in the back or left at the rented beach house, so as long as you're just on the beach or a trail in a humid (not dusty) environment with good old windshield smashing branches, you'd enjoy a free unobstructed motorcycle like view.
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