Jeep Wrangler Forum - Reply to Topic
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum > Drag link maxed, steering still off.

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Thread: Drag link maxed, steering still off. Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
01-15-2014 07:41 PM
Water Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLC View Post
I know this is old but I just got a message from another member having the same problem with the quadratec pitman arm. So buyer beware, doesn't look like an isolated incident.
Good info...Thanks.
01-15-2014 05:56 PM
AdamLC I know this is old but I just got a message from another member having the same problem with the quadratec pitman arm. So buyer beware, doesn't look like an isolated incident.
06-26-2013 02:33 PM
Water Dog Glad you got it solved...things like that can make you pull your hair out...must have happened a lot to me...!!!
06-26-2013 01:10 PM
flflash Glad you resolved the issue Adam!

I wonder if that's just a one off pitman arm mistake or there's a whole lot of them out there? I'm guessing it was indexed incorrectly when they broached the splines or upside down?
06-26-2013 11:02 AM
AdamLC Well problem solved. Thank you to those that offered good advice and suggestions to resolve this problem. I removed the quadratech pitman arm and compared to the new omix-Ada on 18006.5. This is what I found.
You can see the key ways indexed off.

Installed the new one and it indexed toward the drivers side like it's suppose to w/ wheels straight. Adjusted the drag link and centered up the wheels.

I'm glad I didn't throw money away replacing the steering gear.
06-22-2013 04:28 PM
Water Dog Why not take your new pitman arm down to a Chrysler dealer parts counter and ask to see an oem one you could match it to?

Here's a picture of mine as it relates to the drivers side frame with the wheels real close to straight ahead.
06-22-2013 01:46 PM
AdamLC Should i assume that the standard and dropped pitman arm should be clocked the same on the spline? Because from one to the other it was off. Dropped one was at about 1" the standard one I put on ended up about 11:30 or so. Only reason I said another pitman arm was because I didn't very the part number or what they sent so thought it might be incorrect.
06-22-2013 12:06 PM
Patrick H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post

I've had 5 in recent memory that came in broken in half right above the pitman with no evidence of twisting. Regardless, I'll still put good money on not being able to twist one roughly 30° and keep it intact.

If you take 360 and divide it by 12 for each position on a clock face, that gives roughly 30° for each space. To go from 1 to 12 or even more has to be at least 30° or more which I don't see happening. Torsion bar being bent is far more likely.
These were twisted maybe 2 or 3 degrees. Maybe. I was surprised they hadn't busted. I can't imagine there was any strength left in the shaft.
06-22-2013 11:27 AM
flflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
Given what I know of sector shafts, I don't believe it is possible to twist one. It would break first. The torsion bar in the steering gear is messed up and allowed the sector to move off center. He can either clock a pitman, or replace the steering gear.
I haven't seen one twisted on a Jeep but I have on many other vehicles so I'm not going to say It Can't Happen. I just want him to check all Possibilities and Know whats wrong before he throws more money at it.
Guessing gets expensive.
06-22-2013 10:55 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post
I've seen at least two (that I can recall) twisted sector shafts. These were both on Saginaw boxes. You could see where the splines were twisted above the pitman arm. Both instances were from the vehicle's front tires hitting a curb at a good rate on icy roads.
I've had 5 in recent memory that came in broken in half right above the pitman with no evidence of twisting. Regardless, I'll still put good money on not being able to twist one roughly 30° and keep it intact.

If you take 360 and divide it by 12 for each position on a clock face, that gives roughly 30° for each space. To go from 1 to 12 or even more has to be at least 30° or more which I don't see happening. Torsion bar being bent is far more likely.
06-22-2013 09:42 AM
Patrick H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
Given what I know of sector shafts, I don't believe it is possible to twist one. It would break first. The torsion bar in the steering gear is messed up and allowed the sector to move off center. He can either clock a pitman, or replace the steering gear.
I've seen at least two (that I can recall) twisted sector shafts. These were both on Saginaw boxes. You could see where the splines were twisted above the pitman arm. Both instances were from the vehicle's front tires hitting a curb at a good rate on icy roads.
06-22-2013 09:24 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post
Before you spend any more money is it possible to slip your old DPA on with the steering wheel centered and see how it sits on the box? Should be almost straight back just a little to the drivers side.
While you have it off look very carefully at the splines on the shaft and make sure their straight from bottom to top with No twist to them.
I'm curious as to what you find
Given what I know of sector shafts, I don't believe it is possible to twist one. It would break first. The torsion bar in the steering gear is messed up and allowed the sector to move off center. He can either clock a pitman, or replace the steering gear.
06-22-2013 09:21 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLC View Post
I'm looking at getting another pitman arm from another company. I looked at another jeep today and could noticeably tell the pitman arm pointing toward the drivers side a bit where as mine points towards the passenger side with steering wheel centered. My steering gear is tight, no slop or noises, I don't see any problems with it. Even my old dropped pitman arm pointed toward the drivers side some.
You're not listening.
06-22-2013 08:00 AM
flflash Before you spend any more money is it possible to slip your old DPA on with the steering wheel centered and see how it sits on the box? Should be almost straight back just a little to the drivers side.
While you have it off look very carefully at the splines on the shaft and make sure their straight from bottom to top with No twist to them.
I'm curious as to what you find
06-22-2013 02:53 AM
AdamLC I'm looking at getting another pitman arm from another company. I looked at another jeep today and could noticeably tell the pitman arm pointing toward the drivers side a bit where as mine points towards the passenger side with steering wheel centered. My steering gear is tight, no slop or noises, I don't see any problems with it. Even my old dropped pitman arm pointed toward the drivers side some.
06-21-2013 08:22 PM
ChaddG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
I'm 99.999% certain it is NOT possible to move the pitman to one of the other spots due to the steering gear only having about 90° of swing.
My suggestion on how to center the wheel stands.

I will remain firm when I say this.

When I replaced my steering gear box last weekend, the pitman arm was able to go into 4 different positions on the splines of the gear box.
I put it on all 4 spots to make sure I knew it was possible.

Yes you may only have so much movement from this arm, he mentioned that he was (90*) off

center your wheels.
disconnect your pitman arm
center your steering wheel
disconnect your drag link
reconnect your pitman arm so it points to somewhere close to the center of the vehicle.
adjust your drag link coupling to connect properly with your pitman arm.
tighten it all back up.

If you need a pic of what it should look like P.m. me
06-21-2013 11:11 AM
Water Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLC View Post
Is the steering shaft spline keyed so it can only go on one way or can it be turned?
I replaced my steering box recently. I know that there is an "intermediate" shaft between the steering wheel shaft and the steering box. This intermediate shaft has splines and pinch bolts to hold it on. The manual made a big deal out of marking the relationship of the shaft to the steering box shaft and the other steering shaft so I'm assuming it could be turned to different locations on the spline, but don't know that for sure. The one other thing that the manual cautioned about was to lock down the steering wheel using the seat belt so that the steering wheel would not turn while disconnected. They claim that if this happens the clock spring must be recentered.

I
06-21-2013 10:53 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLC View Post
Original Replacement Parts 52038337 - Pitman Arm for 97-06 Jeep® Wrangler TJ & Unlimited with Power Steering - Quadratec this where I got the pitman arm. With the steering wheel centered I'm pointed slightly passenger side between 11 & 12 o'clock. So the way I see it now. New pitman arm or adjust the steering shaft on the splines that go into steering gear. Maybe it was previously replaced or adjusted off with the drop pitman arm.

Is the steering shaft spline keyed so it can only go on one way or can it be turned?
Your steering gear is FUBAR. There is no adjustment between the splined hub for the steering wheel on the steering column, the splines at the column to intermediate shaft, intermediate shaft to steering gear input shaft. They are all keyed and splined.

There is a way to solve your issue. I'm hesitant to relate it because you need to find your other issue, but to clock the pitman over one or two teeth on the sector shaft, all you have to do is take a triangle file to the double wide splines in it, file them to match the other ones and then clock it over 1 or 2 splines. I do it all the time on custom steering because I use a lot of WJ arms and they are clocked differently than the TJ pitman.
06-21-2013 10:10 AM
AdamLC Original Replacement Parts 52038337 - Pitman Arm for 97-06 Jeep® Wrangler TJ & Unlimited with Power Steering - Quadratec this where I got the pitman arm. With the steering wheel centered I'm pointed slightly passenger side between 11 & 12 o'clock. So the way I see it now. New pitman arm or adjust the steering shaft on the splines that go into steering gear. Maybe it was previously replaced or adjusted off with the drop pitman arm.

Is the steering shaft spline keyed so it can only go on one way or can it be turned?
06-21-2013 09:38 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLC View Post
I measure axle center as best i could off the frame. dropped a string with nut on it down off the outside frame at the same place both sides and it showed right side frame to balljoiunt at 8 5/16 and left at 8 7/16. If this is enough to make a difference ill fix it. Opinions?

Also I'm starting to suspect pitman arm. It is not exactly pointed straight back. Pointed Off to the right a little. And it's off to the right some from the mark I made on the gearbox spline before I removed the other pitman arm.

If I did center the wheel and try to adjust the right tire in like flash suggested it won't work because I'm already out of drag link adjustment.
All TJ pitmans when installed correctly and aligned correctly will point slightly to the driver's side of straight back. If you standing over the steering gear and the sector shaft was the clock center with 12 being pointed straight back, the pitman arm TRE nut is usually right at 1 o'clock.

You have used up all the adjustment and based on what I can see so far, I'd be looking at borrowing a steering gear and swapping it in to see if there is something wrong internally with it.

If you are certain you have a stock TJ pitman, that is.
06-21-2013 09:30 AM
AdamLC I measure axle center as best i could off the frame. dropped a string with nut on it down off the outside frame at the same place both sides and it showed right side frame to balljoiunt at 8 5/16 and left at 8 7/16. If this is enough to make a difference ill fix it. Opinions?

Also I'm starting to suspect pitman arm. It is not exactly pointed straight back. Pointed Off to the right a little. And it's off to the right some from the mark I made on the gearbox spline before I removed the other pitman arm.

If I did center the wheel and try to adjust the right tire in like flash suggested it won't work because I'm already out of drag link adjustment.
06-21-2013 08:16 AM
flflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
I'm 99.999% certain it is NOT possible to move the pitman to one of the other spots due to the steering gear only having about 90° of swing.
I'll call you on that 99.999% and raise to 100%.

BMB did mention the axle centering did you check that? Most reliable way is to measure from the outside of the frame rail to a line perpendicular with your upper ball-joint. Just a small amount will play havoc with your steering geometry.
06-21-2013 07:41 AM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsixlj View Post
I'm not positive but I think it its possible for your Pitman arm to be installed 90 degrees off. Since the wider grooves are just in the 3,6,9,&12 positions you might try removing the Pitman arm turning your wheel a quarter turn back to center and readjusting your drag link until it matches the Pitman arm in its new position. Good luck.

I'm 99.999% certain it is NOT possible to move the pitman to one of the other spots due to the steering gear only having about 90° of swing.
06-21-2013 12:16 AM
AdamLC How does this bend in the drag link look? Normal?
06-20-2013 11:38 PM
AdamLC I havent messed with axle center it is the same it came feom the previous owner. It might not be the most ideal way to measure the axle center but I put a atraight edge up the outside center of my tire and measured in from that to the fender line it was 7 1/8" on both sides.
06-20-2013 08:27 PM
BLK00TJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
How did you center the front axle?
BMB is onto something here. I helped a friend install a lift on his Jeep and they sent the wrong length adjustable trackbar with the kit. We installed a 3" lift and the trackbar was for a 5"+. To finish up, we put it (not knowing at the time it was the wrong size). Shortened all the way, we still couldn't get the axle centered and he couldn't make a sharp left hand turn. No matter what we did we couldn't get it worked out. It wasn't until we looked up the part numbers and figured out the problem. If we didn't booger up the stocker taking it off we could have thrown it back on. He ended up having to re-order a replacement with the correct size.

Point is, make sure your axle is centered prior to adjusting steering wheel or alignment.
06-20-2013 08:18 PM
Black Magic Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLC View Post
I bought my jeep with a cobbled together lift from what it seems. RE 3.5" springs, DPA, unknown adjustable front trackbar and rear trackbar relocation bracket. From suggestions of forum members and reading around I didn't need a DPA so I sought to replace it. Ordered OEM from quadratech. And also wanted to replace my tie rod with the ever popular V8 XJ.

Replaced the DPA first. When I put the new one on it was clocked off a little bit from the other but not much I could do about it because of the way it is keyed/splined. Swapped out the tie rod and set my toe in to 1/8". Went to adjust drag link and go all the way till the two rod ends are touching inside the sleve and the steering wheel is clocked about 30* left when going striaght. Try to adjust drag link ends out and when I get the steering wheel straight again I have like a half turn left before steering is maxed and right I have full travel.

Is there something I am missing, is the steering shaft splined anywhere that I can take apart and turn it a few teeth to help align it up?
How did you center the front axle?
06-20-2013 08:09 PM
ChaddG I would center your wheels.
remove the drag link tie rod.
mark where your pitman arm is in relation to your gear box.
remove the pitman arm from the steering gear box.
then center your steering wheel.
put your pitman arm back on,
there are 4 keyways between the splines. make the arm go to the next available keyway towards the direction you need.
adjust your drag link coupling to connect with your pitman arm.
This should put you back on center.
06-20-2013 08:01 PM
flflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLC View Post
I got all my part numbers from
ZJ Tie Rod Conversion

And flash at the end of your description do you mean to adjust the toe in using the tie rod sleeve not the drag link?
Yes the Tie rod sleeve, sorry I was trying to get things closed up and outta the shop at the time
06-20-2013 07:38 PM
ohsixlj I'm not positive but I think it its possible for your Pitman arm to be installed 90 degrees off. Since the wider grooves are just in the 3,6,9,&12 positions you might try removing the Pitman arm turning your wheel a quarter turn back to center and readjusting your drag link until it matches the Pitman arm in its new position. Good luck.
This thread has more than 30 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:19 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC