|07-03-2013 08:06 PM|
|07-03-2013 06:11 PM|
Gixx.....its easy offloading used bds springs.....they are popular enough........ever think about sellin yours off and installing ome 2942'S? Or 41's? From selling off ur rear bds springs....the total investment would be really cheap.......and i bet your ride quality skyrockets. Cheap investment......major gain every second your in the jeep.
|07-03-2013 05:51 PM|
I know I could do better, just by reading the various reviews. But for an economical, yet quality kit, I love my BDS. And it is far superior to stock. It is firmer in the rear than front, I added weight up front and took some off (hard top) in the rear. But it's controlled and until I feel something better, I will continue to sing the praises of this lift.
|07-03-2013 11:43 AM|
For suspension/steering Im running 2" OME springs(2933,2942), MC duraflex CA's, Fox 10" travel shocks(w/teraflex rear upper relocation brackets and Clayton lower relocation mounts), front ORO dual rate swayloc swaybar, stock rear swaybar with extended links and new poly bushings, new spring isolators F/R, new 1" Daystar poly bodylift mounts, MC front trackbar,new stock rear trackbar w/OME relocation bracket, skyjacker 9000 series steering stabilizer, new TJ draglink w/ends, new ZJ steering tie rod w/ends, new ball joints. I only use .75" bumpstop extensions for front and rear and have basically perfect 50/50 up/downtravel.
Axles: Front sleeved(inner kit) Dana 30 HP w/Eaton Elocker and RCV CV axles, 4.88 gearing. Rear Dana 44 w/ Eaton Trutrac LSD. 33x10.5 BFG's AT's(daily driving and light/moderate wheelin) and 35x10.5 SSR's on standby for the more difficult wheelin trips.
|07-03-2013 10:40 AM|
|07-03-2013 10:00 AM|
So when I hear people who are in a soft top TJ using rear springs in that 200lb. range state the ride is fine.........its obvious that people's idea of "fine" varies greatly. 2 people in our group run BDS springs, both in TJ's. One is loaded with everything(35" spare, swing out carrier, hardtop, 150 pound toolbox/kit, armor etc)and the rear end of his rig is still very stiff and uncomfortable on road. And off road yes the springs compress and extend fully, but the rear body roll is excessive and the offroad experience is really more like riding a bucking bronco with all the back and forth body roll and hop due to the rear springs.
Every single friend and wheelin colleague who has gotten into my jeep has stated that my setup is the most comfortable and controlled ride in a Wrangler that they have ever experienced. Offroading, people are pleasantly surprised at how little bucking or body roll the vehicle has going over obstacles and off camber trails. And the reason being is because I took great care in researching out and buying components(shocks,springs, CA's, sway bar setup etc) that were carefully matched to my vehicle and the needs I had for it.
My Wrangler isn't a Cadillac, but man........it sure comes close in many respects to riding like one. And anyone else can have the same experience too if they take the time to set their vehicle up properly.
Gixxer, I don't think your a "noob" at all, but I would bet my life savings that if you had a chance to hang out in my LJ for an afternoon, you would have a completely different outlook on how a Wrangler can ride and handle. I can say without question that my Wrangler is the exception and not the norm when it comes to a lifted capable off roading rig.
|07-02-2013 11:39 PM|
More 2" BDS flex
|07-02-2013 06:05 PM|
I run as low as 24 in my MTRs... they run like a regular tire at 12 though. The duratracs I run at 26-28.
That's why I offered my old shocks best of both worlds I guess, until he can lift.
|07-02-2013 05:28 PM|
|07-02-2013 03:05 PM|
|07-02-2013 02:58 PM|
And before you try and call me a newb, I've been driving for 30 years, in the business for 15 years and know the difference between hard and soft when it comes to ride.
|07-02-2013 02:53 PM|
|07-02-2013 02:43 PM|
|GoldenSahara00||I agree if you can get shocks go with the BL/mml for now, 2.5 suspension later to run 33s. Do it right and buy quality parts. But those shocks should be priority.|
|07-02-2013 02:13 PM|
BTW, I'd strongly recommend doing the 1" Daystar Bodylift(not the 1.25" aluminum puck add on body lift). Reason being is the Daystar bodylift completely REPLACES your most likely worn out body bushings with all new Poly ones.
Also, don't forget the M.O.R.E. 1" steering riser column.....it will keep your steering feel factory linear.
As for the MML, go with Browndog(using the rubber option). Best aftermarket MML out there for a good reasonable price......not just a "spacer" block lift. Comes with new rubber bushing mounts.
If you do a search on TJ's with 1" BL on 31's Im sure you will find plenty of pics.
Now assuming you have gone this route and picked up some cheap shocks to get you bye to start, your now set up to do
A. A nice tummy tuck
B. A mild suspension lift to fit 33's.
WIth the BL and MML etc in place, you can now look at 2" suspension lift instead of a 3" to fit 33's comfortably. With a 2" suspension lift vs. a 3" your able to keep your control arms much flatter(good thing)thus keeping suspension geometry more intact. There are also many more choices for spring rates in the 2-2.5" lift springs.
When the time comes for this though, Im going to say it again. Look at OME springs. They have a wide assorment of springs to allow you to get the correct lb. ratings for your Jeep. BDS springs are pogo stick stiff unless you legitimately have ALOT more weight to carry. I have a Jeep LJ, LOADED with extra weight, and I still run 140/160lb rated springs.......and when Im unloaded it still rides a tad on the stiff side, especially in the rear. If I ran BDS 2" springs it would be much worse unloaded.
|07-02-2013 01:49 PM|
I would do the second option, but because you need new shocks, go with 1. 33s and 2 inches of SL is a not go. the 2+1.25 is still gona be tight. You can just add coils and adjustable control arms later and keep everything roughly the same.
you won't be able to get stock length shocks that will work well with lift springs later.
If you need new stock shocks and want to go w/ the BL/MML, I will ship/sell you the stock shocks (all or what you need) for cheap. They were pretty decent when I ripped them off and they are just sitting in the garage. I'd like to get rid of them.
|07-02-2013 01:44 PM|
Ok so after some more research I am down to 2 options:
1)BDS 2" lift. There is another thread on here where dedicated to BDS lifts and it sounds like everyone enjoys their lifts. It is agreed by everyone on here that BDS makes a quality product and the ppl on the other thread claim a better ride on and offroad regardless of stiff springs.
2) 1.25"BL and MML with cheap shocks. After reading some installs of the Zone it seems like a more indepth job than I want to tackle myself. If I do this now then later add a SL will my 1" MML still work or will I need to change it again?
When I do move up to 33"s one day I am going with the 2"SL and 1.25"BL. So the question is which to do first. I am still leaning toward SL since I am gonna need shocks and an alignment anyway and it seems like 2"
Won't hurt my angles,, but wondered what ppl use on a 2" to adjust casters if needed. Also can I run 33" with just 2"?
Anyone have pics of 2" on 33's. I've seen 31's on 2" and like it.
What about pics of 1" on 31's can't seem to find pics of just a 1" lift
|07-01-2013 09:07 PM|
|07-01-2013 08:05 PM|
But to say a Jeep lifted with a compromise budget lift kit rides better than a fresh new stock setup, Id beg to differ. That is very much up for debate. When your axles and wheelbase are out of spec. cog/roll center, antidive and antisquat #'s are out of whack, its not something that lends itself to a better handling vehicle.
A near stock Jeep on 31's with a simple body lift and a good tummy tuck keeping the stock suspension geometry intact will outperform on and off road a Jeep with just a suspension lift and larger tires all the time. I know this for a fact. I see it every other weekend I go out wheelin with my club.
This being said, Im not against a suspension lift, but it isnt the first thing Id be doing to build up a Jeep. Work from the inside out. Start with the basics and go from there. Even if the OP's budget was much higher. Id still recommend he start with the BL, MML and then a TT......those 3 things alone will give the TJ a much more agressive look and make a HUGE difference in the TJ's off roading ability.
|07-01-2013 07:42 PM|
I went with the Zone combo lift. And am happy with how it performs on and off road. Is it the quality lift that I will have in this jeep 5 yrs from, no! Does it handle better then stock, yes.
What controls a lot of the 'comfort' when driving is actually air pressure more then anything else, unless we are talking hydro vs nitro shocks. If you don't believe me go try it right now. Put your tires at 33-35psi and then try driving it at 28-30psi. A lot of people drive their 31"+ tires at a psi of 32 or higher :nono: 28-30 is their prime psi.
I would recommend my lift to anyone trying to lift their jeep, put 33's on, and like me are on a budget.
This is a sensitive topic on these forums because some on here are major rock crawling/do it the way I say kinda folks. Often times their advice is correct but if you are just looking to be an occasional weekend warrior and use your jeep as a DD, then I would highly recommend the Zone combo lift (add an adj front track bar and steering stabilizer) and throw some duratracs on it.
In the end it's your jeep, educate yourself as much as you can, and when it comes down to it, make your own decision on what you have heard/read.
|07-01-2013 07:06 PM|
Which is why I would point you to OME springs if your dead set on going this route. Consider them identical in quality to BDS, but with spring rates that are much better suited for YOUR rig. You can buy them seperately too. You dont need to buy a full OME kit to get their springs. OME springs pair up nicely with BDS monotube shocks.
I understand your young, in college and have a budget. I know that doing a suspension lift kit is the "sexy" choice to make. But my very strong opinion for you is to do the basics and fundamentals first. The 1" BL/MML combo will suit you best TO START on 31's. Replace your blown shock out with a new cheap replacement until your budget and knowledge expands a bit.
Then when you gain a bit of knowledge save up some extra money etc......you can add a lift kit later which will compliment the 1" BL/MML you installed.
|07-01-2013 06:42 PM|
|Jsb0032||NJO, based on previous post it sound like you think BDS is a quality product just too stiff. This is why I created the thread. I can see your logic, I just want personal on and offroad experiences. People who have taken a sticker like mine and adds the lift. How did it actually effect the ride and handlin compared to stock. I'm not trying to undermine your logic, u sound like u really k ow your stuff, just sometimes thing actually work different than the math would cause you to expect.|
|07-01-2013 03:52 PM|
Food for thought from my experience
Rancho rs5000 series shocks are terrible..
They were awfully stiff, so stiff that the wife despised riding with me.. Now, since I have lifted (went with rough country 2.5" progressive rate coils, have heard good and bad and decided they were worth looking into, glad I did for 200 bucks) I decided to give rancho one last try before shunning them forever; rs9000xls. They are awesome. You can choose how firm/soft you want them (they have 9 adjustable settings) and are easily changed with the twist of a knob..
With 2.5" lift I did need to recenter my rear axle(relocation bracket) and did not need to recenter my front. I did however, unlike most, got drive line vibrations. This is curable via two options: mml with a bl, our the cheaper (less beneficial) t-case drop..
Just my personal experience, and another set of springs to think about
Also if you think you want to go that route, pm Erin with rock ridge 4wd, she got me said and done right around 600 for the shocks, springs, quick discos, and rear track bar relocation bracket. Now I did have to do some shopping around for a good deal on shocks since the price match.. My4by.com had them for like 83 a piece but then with the promotion rancho has(100 off a set of four) I was under 240 for shocks..
|07-01-2013 12:55 PM|
Most people here I find, blindly buy on other's people's advice without looking into the BIG PICTURE overall. I am trying to give you the BIG PICTURE.
Your needs(what you type down here for us to read)dictate that some of the choices your inquiring on, are far from the best options.
For example: The BDS 2" Coil lift for around $400. The springs are high quality springs no question, they are scragged and shot peened. But the rates(158/200) are obnoxiously STIFF. And for you with a stock TJ with a 2.5L 4 cylinder engine? Not a great match.......espcially if this is going to be a DD most of the time. Your ride is going to be ALOT stiffer than what it is now. ALOT. Your factory spring rates are most likely 130/150. Going to 158/200 is not going to make your ride any more comfortable.
I have a LWB 05' LJ, 4.0L engine, and its LOADED up with armor, full skids, heavy f/r bumpers, winch, heavy rack,hardtop, EXOGATE and heavy spare and I run 140/160lb rate 2" lift springs. Even my rig is just a tad on the stiff side when I run solo with no gear.
The BDS shocks are decent. But they require bumpstopping. So add that to the cost unless you want to potential for shock damage from hard bottoming of the shocks. You will also need some type of trackbar relocation bracket in the rear to keep your axles and tires centered under the body. Same with the front via a mod or new trackbar thats adjustable. Any suspension lift at or over 2" will offset your axles.
Another example of yours: Zone 3" coil lift. First off, do you know what the spring rates are? 2nd. Your lifting 3", yet bumpstopping 2". So in effect your reducing uptravel. 3rd. Your shortening the wheelbase(look at pics where people do a 3-4" suspension lift using fixed arms, it looks terrible from the side). 4th. Your dropping the shovel transfer case lower to reduce DS vibration potential, so in reality your losing ground clearance in the belly with the already aweful stock shovel skidplate. Your AS/AD #'s start taking a nosedive at 3" suspension lift as well. And those lower suspension arms included? They are worse that the stock ones. Solid fixed arms with hard poly bushings do not like to flex. At least the stock factory arms use rubber bushings and an open C channel design that allow your axle to flex decently within the factory design of the suspension. But those lower arms are actually a downgrade over the stock setup in terms of flex.
All this for 31's?
3rd example of yours: 1" BL, MML".......1 " BL gives you that more agressive look with 31's. The 1" MML(And don't forget the steering riser kit)keeps the body,steering and components aligned correctly. It also sets you up down the road to do a nice little flat skid tummy tuck(Undercoverfab has a few fantastic kits to choose from with a lopro mount which will retain your factory geometry 100%)giving you more ground clearance for offroading.
The benefits of this choice include keeping your axles/driveline factory aligned, and your suspension geometry intact. This is without question the best route to take. Buy some fresh shocks and you will have a very capable offroad jeep thats still retains its road manners.
4th option: 2" BB spacer lift. In reality, its a poor choice too. Now you will have to bumpstop significantly just to prevent coilbind. And you will need to make sure your shocks compressed lengths match up correctly, with the correct bumpstops to prevent bottoming out of the coilsprings.
Of the 4, your best choice is #3 hands down.
Other choices too not mentioned is the mix n match arrangement.
If your stuck on a coil spring lift, then why not pickup just the OME springs(which gives you the choice to properly choose the correct rates for your setup), match em with cheaper priced BDS shocks(saving you money)and buy a seperate TB relocation bracket and proper bumpstops for the setup as an example?
Even using that as an example, your best bet is #3 given your needs and current budget. Example #3 gives you all the benefits your looking for with none of the drawbacks. And by doing # 3 to start it leaves you plenty of time to do proper research on the TJ so that you will be able to make much better informed decisions in the future for your rig.
|07-01-2013 12:09 PM|
Well I intended for this to be a brand comparison but it has turned into something else. I find it odd that when looking at threads about lifts there are numerous ppl supporting the Zone but when you ask for direct comparisons there's not as many ppl willing to give a detailed review.
Anyway lets talk a out my long term goals and best options. My jeep is 2002 tj 2.5l. Stock besides after market rims running 30x9.5. I believe my rims are 15x8 crager d window or other brand win similar style. They were on the jeep when I got it. I don't think back spacing is an issue as they stick out about 1-1.5" past my stock flares. This will e my DD until I get out of school in 3 years so i am only goin as big as 31's now. After graduation I plan on 2-3" suspension lift and 1.25 body lift to clear 33's. prolly a tummy tuck at that time and heavy bumpers, winch, and full size spare.
Currently, regardless of lift, I need shocks tires and 4 wheel alignment. Check my other thread about my bald tire and chime in on what else could be my problem there.
So my options are:
Zone 3" coil lift $375
BDS 2" coil lift $325
1" BL, MML, rancho shocks ~$500 cheap shocks $300
Or 2" BB with rancho shocks $300
I am sure the zone and BDS shocks aren't as good as rancho but are they better than What the local auto parts has to offer.
|07-01-2013 10:50 AM|
If you think some of the "opinions" here are way off base, then why don't you list them and give detailed explanation and reasoning why they are way off? That way the OP and others can LEARN a thing or 2.
I can give one great example though just from my wheeling club alone. One gentleman has an 00' TJ, he rides on 31x10.5's with a 1" BL and a 3.5" tummy tuck. His rig is able to outclimb and go up a number of difficult trails that another member of our club who has a 98' TJ with a Zone 4.25" combo kit on 35x12.5's and the stock shovel skid has major difficulty traversing. And the non lifted TJ is miles better for on road comfort and handling too.
Im all for lifting and fitting on larger tires, but to do it right requires research, careful planning and an honest logical assessment of what the expectations are to be for the OP in question.
Whats "great" to one person, might be cr@p to another. ALWAYS assume that others STANDARDS are lower than your own. I waited a few years before doing my lift. Thank god I did. BUy right the first time and only buy once(And save significant time and money in the long run) Most of the people giving advice on these forums have low standards I found. And that is not to be confused with a low budget. You can have a budget and still buy the right/smart parts for your needs and expectations.
|07-01-2013 10:35 AM|
OP I wouldn't go by what a lot of the im posters on here seem to think some of the opinions are way off base IMO. Do your research contact various lift/shock and suspension manufactures for their recommendations and suggestions. Then determine what You want to do in your budget and future plans.
I have no hands on knowledge of Zone products and have never installed one of their lifts so I can't comment on them. I have installed RE, OEM, BDS, SJ, Rusty OR, Pro Comp lifts and suspension components and I have them listed in the order I prefer them. I currently own one Jeep with a BDS lift and one with a Rubicon Express and very happy with both.
|07-01-2013 09:50 AM|
If he is going with 33's, then even with a 2" lift, he is still going to need a 1" BL, or he is going to be doing some rather large obnoxious bumpstops...and then he is going to need to do some new rims on top of it with the correct backspacing(or he will be adding spacers to his steering stops increasing his turning radius significantly)...which means he will gain no extra travel or "flex".
|07-01-2013 09:20 AM|
Don't forget he has one damaged shock so he needs shocks anyway in his budget.
|07-01-2013 09:15 AM|
Its not as simple as you made it out.
|07-01-2013 09:10 AM|
Your current springs most likely are FINE. Your shocks are probably what needs replacing.
Doing a 2 or 3" SL with stock fenders and NO BODYLIFT means your going to be BUMPSTOPPING a few inches. SO in reality you get no more flex whatsoever out of your suspension(especially with poor poly control arms offered in Zone kit)......all your getting is worse driveline/suspension angles and a higher COG.
To lift PROPERLY opens up a whole can of worms in reality. THe last thing I did on my rig was the suspension lift. I did everything else first(BL,MML,TT etc).
Let me put it this way for ya.
A Jeep TJ with an inexpensive 1" BL and a 2-3" tummy tuck on 31's is in reality just as capable(or actually more capable)as a Jeep TJ on 33's with just a generic 3" lift kit offroad. While being much better on the road.
Suspension lift does NOT equal more capable off road vehicle.
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