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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-13-2013 05:07 PM
mhilbush
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL2 View Post
I tend to vote for something with a bit more ground clearance than an Audi/Subi - but those will get it done in AWD if you mind where you drive it. Tires are a big deal.
I hear you on that. With the lockable center and rear diffs, my 87 Audi 4000 quattro with snow tires went through anything and everything, EXCEPT deep, wet snow. God, I miss that car.
07-13-2013 04:43 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtz265 View Post
Dude is wrong on this one. My duras kicked the snot out of my mtrs w/kevlar on road.
dude cant read
07-13-2013 04:40 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by THW View Post
I am confused by this notion that you shouldn't drive in 4hi when roads are just patchy with snow. I live in a rural area of Connecticut- we get plenty of snow and although the local streets are plowed, there are plenty of patchy areas where you're liable to get stuck or spin out in 2wd. I keep it in 4hi on those roads, rather than constantly shifting from 4hi to 2wd, and I've never had a problem in my JK or any other authentic 4x4. I obviously shift back to 2wd when I get to main roads that are dry and plowed, but there is really no problem keeping it in 4hi on roads with some dry, plowed portions as long as you are going slow and taking really smooth, wide turns. IMO some people on this forum (perhaps those who live in more arid climates) exaggerate the necessity of disengaging 4hi on any patch of dry pavement.
It is bad to make tight turns in 4 wheel drive on dry pavement. I wouldn't kick it outta 4hi for every dry patch, but heres about how it works here....i have to use 4hi to even get out of my driveway because no one bothers to plow it all winter. Pull out onto the street, which is perfectly clear and dry (leaving it in 4hi at this point would make horrible noises and wheel hopping feelings). Drive a couple miles, turn onto a lesser traveled road thats icy as hell, kick it into 4hi. Every other road seems to be clear and dry. On most of these roads it would be easier to kick it outta 4hi than to make a wide, smooth turn.
07-13-2013 04:35 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by overblown View Post
Yeh, I read it. And that still doesn't make sense.
Braking performance on dry pavement.
07-13-2013 04:34 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by THW View Post
Are you nuts? Compared to what? Minivan touring tires? If you can name an A/T tire that is anywhere near as good as a Duratrac for snow and offroad performance and is better on the street, I would love to hear your recommendation.
As i have said THREE TIMES now, compared to stock goodyear wrangler ST street tires that were FACTORY ON MY JEEP.

Thanks for not reading my post.
07-13-2013 03:44 PM
vacca foeda As a life long ski bum and racer... A wrangler with a decent tire like a duratrac will work really well for you. Add a winch and off you slide off a road, you can get back on, and can help others who slide off (careful when doing that, lawyers are mean)
07-13-2013 03:19 PM
THW
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Duratracs suck on the street. period.
Are you nuts? Compared to what? Minivan touring tires? If you can name an A/T tire that is anywhere near as good as a Duratrac for snow and offroad performance and is better on the street, I would love to hear your recommendation.
07-13-2013 02:44 PM
damndirtydog
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Duratracs suck on the street. period.
Not true. Great on the street, Ok in the highway, awesome offroad.
Order your JKU with a LSD in the rear or have a Truetrac installed and a set of Duratracs or other brand of snow tire and you're golden.
07-13-2013 02:35 PM
THW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlehouse View Post
This is the thing that i'm really concerned about. The thing is I don't live on the mountain so i'd be going the weekend of the storm. In my example it was 3 days after the storm. The main roads were 100% plowed, however during the day it would get hot enough for some snow melt, and then drop into the teens overnight which would ice up the low spots. I just don't want to ruin the 4wd system going up the mountain in 4wd from the chain up point... If i'm able to do this for 20 or so miles then the wrangler seems perfect. If I go wrangler it will be Rubicon, but I don't think i can shift in and out of 4wd on that t case.
You absolutely can shift in and out of 4WD in a Rubicon, just as easily as any other Wrangler.

Like I said, you CAN use 4WD on dry pavement, at low speeds and if you are very careful about your turning- wide and smooth turns are a must. There is (obviously) no need to use 4WD on long stretches of dry pavement so it would be silly to add wear to your front diff and risk breaking something if you didn't actually need it. But if you are going up a mountain in conditions that typically require snow chains, IMO there is really no reason why you can't keep it in 4WD unless you are obviously free and clear of any snowy conditions. I general, I keep it in 2WD until I start to slip (as in, my Jeep is moving sideways- not just a little bit of tire spin) and then I pop it in 4hi until I've reached an area where I feel confident that it is no longer necessary.

However, please note:

1) As lots of others here have said, tires are actually more helpful in snowy situations than 4WD is- it's the tires that help to resist slipping. For this reason, a stock Rubicon may actually be WORSE on snowy roads than a Sport or Sahara- although the Rubicon's BFGs are terrific tires in deep snow, they have no siping and can't grip onto slicker stuff as well as a regular A/T tire like the stick SRAs. It's the same principle as wearing work boots vs. sneakers. Work boots are fantastic in snow deeper than an inch or so, but you're better off in sneakers on compressed snow or ice because there's more surface contact with the rubber (and the rubber is a softer, grippier compound). That's how I think of it, anyway. Tires like Good Year Duratracs are like a hiking boot- they have deep tread for deeper snow, but also siping for the slicker stuff.

2) You mentioned ice- 4WD will not really be of any help to you on ice, unless you are stopped with your rears stuck on ice and your front tires are on a dry surface.
07-13-2013 01:57 PM
Littlehouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by THW View Post
I am confused by this notion that you shouldn't drive in 4hi when roads are just patchy with snow. I live in a rural area of Connecticut- we get plenty of snow and although the local streets are plowed, there are plenty of patchy areas where you're liable to get stuck or spin out in 2wd. I keep it in 4hi on those roads, rather than constantly shifting from 4hi to 2wd, and I've never had a problem in my JK or any other authentic 4x4. I obviously shift back to 2wd when I get to main roads that are dry and plowed, but there is really no problem keeping it in 4hi on roads with some dry, plowed portions as long as you are going slow and taking really smooth, wide turns. IMO some people on this forum (perhaps those who live in more arid climates) exaggerate the necessity of disengaging 4hi on any patch of dry pavement.
This is the thing that i'm really concerned about. The thing is I don't live on the mountain so i'd be going the weekend of the storm. In my example it was 3 days after the storm. The main roads were 100% plowed, however during the day it would get hot enough for some snow melt, and then drop into the teens overnight which would ice up the low spots. I just don't want to ruin the 4wd system going up the mountain in 4wd from the chain up point... If i'm able to do this for 20 or so miles then the wrangler seems perfect. If I go wrangler it will be Rubicon, but I don't think i can shift in and out of 4wd on that t case.
07-13-2013 01:32 PM
THW I am confused by this notion that you shouldn't drive in 4hi when roads are just patchy with snow. I live in a rural area of Connecticut- we get plenty of snow and although the local streets are plowed, there are plenty of patchy areas where you're liable to get stuck or spin out in 2wd. I keep it in 4hi on those roads, rather than constantly shifting from 4hi to 2wd, and I've never had a problem in my JK or any other authentic 4x4. I obviously shift back to 2wd when I get to main roads that are dry and plowed, but there is really no problem keeping it in 4hi on roads with some dry, plowed portions as long as you are going slow and taking really smooth, wide turns. IMO some people on this forum (perhaps those who live in more arid climates) exaggerate the necessity of disengaging 4hi on any patch of dry pavement.
07-13-2013 01:20 PM
HRPinDC So here's my two cents for what it's worth. My wife has a Subaru Tribeca and it's the worst car I've ever owned. What a piece of crap. 65k miles and I've dumped thousands into it getting all kinds of dumb stuff fixed. The best vehicle I've owned in snow was my 88 YJ (I haven't driven my JKUR in snow yet) especially when I had Mickey Thompson Bajas on it. Once I was driving in about a foot of snow in 2wd with no hands on the wheel, while everyone else was sliding and skidding everywhere. My Xterra was also great in snow. The right tires are important and ground clearance is indispensable. When I used to ski, the Wrangler was my vehicle and it never once let me down. I had a ski rack that mounted vertically on the spare tire. Most likely any of the vehicles mentioned will do what you need, although I disagree with the pick-up truck recommendations. But I would choose the Jeep for the ground clearance, the summer fun factor and just because it's cooler than a subie.
07-13-2013 11:15 AM
Littlehouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL2 View Post
Land Rover Defender FTW! Oh, wait, Big Brother says we're not allowed to own those. You can find a used one...it'll cost as much as a new JK, but they are out there occasionally. You get full time 4x4 with the option to lock the center-diff. I tend to vote for something with a bit more ground clearance than an Audi/Subi - but those will get it done in AWD if you mind where you drive it. Tires are a big deal. My thing is that seldom have I seen a ski town where plowing is consistent and the plow drivers manage not to leave huge mounds of the stuff everywhere and in awkward sports - to include parking lots. So, from a fellow skier, car ground clearance and street tires = pain in the ass.
I wish! There is one down the street from me that I drool over almost every day. Love the 110s. Do we have anything over here with high ground clearance, AWD, and a center locking diff that's worth while? I've seen some very nice off road G wagons, but those are extremely pricey.
07-13-2013 10:57 AM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
I was comparing them to street tires, if you would have read my post you'd know this. Thanks for reading.
Yeh, I read it. And that still doesn't make sense.
07-13-2013 09:28 AM
DJL2 Land Rover Defender FTW! Oh, wait, Big Brother says we're not allowed to own those. You can find a used one...it'll cost as much as a new JK, but they are out there occasionally. You get full time 4x4 with the option to lock the center-diff. I tend to vote for something with a bit more ground clearance than an Audi/Subi - but those will get it done in AWD if you mind where you drive it. Tires are a big deal. My thing is that seldom have I seen a ski town where plowing is consistent and the plow drivers manage not to leave huge mounds of the stuff everywhere and in awkward sports - to include parking lots. So, from a fellow skier, car ground clearance and street tires = pain in the ass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Unless we are talking about deep offroad snow, the Wrangler isn't actually the best. Yes, it will get you there, but if I was driving a mountain road covered in some snow and ice, is the wrangler what I want as my #1 choice? No way. I would much rather have a vehicle with a centerdiff and AWD like a subaru or an audi. If your goal is to use roads to get to a ski slope, I would prefer an AWD vehicle. Again, the Wrangler will have no problem making it anywhere, but as far as safety and control, I'd prefer fulltime AWD on compacted snow and ice.
07-13-2013 09:17 AM
michiganadam I was comparing them to street tires, if you would have read my post you'd know this. Thanks for reading.
07-13-2013 06:50 AM
kurtz265
Quote:
Originally Posted by overblown View Post

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen on this sight and it couldn't be further from the truth. This is my third Wrangler and 5th vehicle with Duratracs, all of which started out with just regular street tires minus my 10a. So I believe I have enough experience to call BS on your claim.
Dude is wrong on this one. My duras kicked the snot out of my mtrs w/kevlar on road.
07-13-2013 12:15 AM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Duratracs suck on the street. period.
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen on this sight and it couldn't be further from the truth. This is my third Wrangler and 5th vehicle with Duratracs, all of which started out with just regular street tires minus my 10a. So I believe I have enough experience to call BS on your claim.
07-12-2013 11:51 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Say what? I can understand you saying that when comparing them against a regular street tire, but comparing them to other ATs or MTs? They are as good as it gets.
Yes, compared to a regular street tire. There is no reason to run anything other than a regular street tire unless you're actually offroading. I also posted that before the OP said he was going to go offroading.

I run duratracs, anyhow. It's a good tire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Just a small note, there is no worse vehicle for snow than a pickup truck. I would take a FWD honda before I took a pickup truck to deal with snow ON the road. Also, the JKU has 50/50 weight distribution, and doesn't need any weight in the rear like a pickup.

Having said all that, a Jeep with front and rear LSDs would be 95% as good as an AWD vehicle in terms of dynamics.
Does the JKU really have a 50/50 weight distribution? Thats cool. I don't know a lot about them because I don't like them, but you know what i was saying about the 2 door and the seats and axle.

Real pickup trucks are 4x4s. And a honda wouldnt have even gotten me to the jeep dealer the day i bought my jeep. 2 feet of snow on the road. A 4x4 pickup truck would also be using the front axle and therefore would be getting atleast the traction of a honda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowerumble View Post
Well my buddies just went skiing last week. A little hike and on the shady side of the mountains...

I agree that a pickup truck is a really poor choice as a weekend "ski vehicle". By the way all a 2500 or 250 is a 3/4 ton... bigger payload and towing and often larger engines. Rougher ride if you are needing it. And on ice the 2 door wrangler is a bigger loser than an unlimited. That short wheel base, especially if combined with larger wider tires can turn that thing into a top if the driver doesn't know what they are doing...
Yes, when I buy a pickup truck i buy one to haul some heavy stuff around, therefore i don't believe in half ton pickup trucks. I don't like calling them half ton pickup trucks or three quarter ton pickup trucks because....well, look at the weight ratings on them. That description has not been accurate since the 20s. By the way, jeeps were originally "quarter ton trucks".

A pickup truck gets around pretty damn good if you throw 500 lb in the bed. Thats 5 bags of sand.

And if you think pickups get around bad, try driving a semi tractor, which is made for 20,000+lb to be on the back axle, oh god... plus they dont have a 4x4 mode..

And yes, i'm well aware that 2 doors can spin around pretty easily with that short wheelbase. You just have to pay attention and be a good driver and slow down a little.
07-12-2013 09:42 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by coelement777 View Post
I would buy the jeep if you plan on hitting trails for sure, but the people saying subarus cant handle deep snow dont know what they are talking about. My sister has a 2008 impreza. I have been with her when shes driven that car down the street she lives on before it was plowed with snow up to the bottom of the headlights. It made it through just fine and we were able to merge from that street onto the plowed 45 mph main road with no problems.
I love my jeep, but i dont drive long distances on a regular basis and dont care about the mpg. If i was driving a couple hours from home every week to go skiing i would have a subaru wagon.
I didn't say powder snow, but I have friends with Subarus, and although they are capable, they are not going through 3' of snow. I think 2' of fresh powder on tarmac is their limit. I also didn't say they CANT...I said for that the Jeep is far superior.
07-12-2013 08:41 PM
Txrdstr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlehouse View Post
The real problem is finding a happy medium. It's got to be my DD, able hit some trails, and shuttle me, my girl, and my pup back and forth to the mountains. I may be wrong, but I don't think AWD would cut it on the trails.

If the Trailhawk 2 comes without air suspension that may be the best compromise, but I doubt that will happen. First world problems... haha
Well now you threw the trails in the story, hells ya, get the Jeep.
07-12-2013 08:19 PM
Lowerumble
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
When you're going skiing in *JUNE*................

And OK, the jeep might not be the best. But it's a fine choice. If i was going to choose something else for this, i'd get a silverado 2500 4x4, f250 4x4, even a toyota tacoma 4x4.
The 2 door wrangler has a weight distribution advantage, because the front seats are directly centered between front and rear axles. Those pickup trucks will get almost no traction on the rear axle when not loaded up with cargo. You can fix that with a couple hundred pounds of aluminum cans...or bags of sand.
The 4 door wrangler gets back into the "need weight in the back" category. But atleast it has seats back there. Need more rear traction? Get bigger rear passengers.
Well my buddies just went skiing last week. A little hike and on the shady side of the mountains...

I agree that a pickup truck is a really poor choice as a weekend "ski vehicle". By the way all a 2500 or 250 is a 3/4 ton... bigger payload and towing and often larger engines. Rougher ride if you are needing it. And on ice the 2 door wrangler is a bigger loser than an unlimited. That short wheel base, especially if combined with larger wider tires can turn that thing into a top if the driver doesn't know what they are doing...
07-12-2013 07:24 PM
tontwins I live in Alta, Utah in the winters 500"+ of snow I've never had any issues in my jeep never stuck or spins.
07-12-2013 06:56 PM
coelement777 I would buy the jeep if you plan on hitting trails for sure, but the people saying subarus cant handle deep snow dont know what they are talking about. My sister has a 2008 impreza. I have been with her when shes driven that car down the street she lives on before it was plowed with snow up to the bottom of the headlights. It made it through just fine and we were able to merge from that street onto the plowed 45 mph main road with no problems.
I love my jeep, but i dont drive long distances on a regular basis and dont care about the mpg. If i was driving a couple hours from home every week to go skiing i would have a subaru wagon.
07-12-2013 04:26 PM
ahsumtoy
I agree again

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
I don't see why not. It's safer (including if you crash) and if you do suffer damage, that's why you have insurance. When it comes to safety, it's just a hunk of metal...an insured hunk of metal. I wouldn't hesitate in the slightest, otherwise, why bother buying a vehicle like that in the first place?
I didn't say I don't take mine out in the ice, I was referring to others possibly. I don't care what it costs, I use it to it's advantage. I do take my Audi when it is packed snow and ice and I love how it performs with the AWD over the Jeep.
07-12-2013 04:25 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
dont think that guy has seen a real mountain in the winter.

When the road crews are using giant SNOW BLOWERS to clear the snow off the highway, instead of plows, ..........

When you're going skiing in *JUNE*................

And OK, the jeep might not be the best. But it's a fine choice. If i was going to choose something else for this, i'd get a silverado 2500 4x4, f250 4x4, even a toyota tacoma 4x4.

The 2 door wrangler has a weight distribution advantage, because the front seats are directly centered between front and rear axles. Those pickup trucks will get almost no traction on the rear axle when not loaded up with cargo. You can fix that with a couple hundred pounds of aluminum cans...or bags of sand.

The 4 door wrangler gets back into the "need weight in the back" category. But atleast it has seats back there. Need more rear traction? Get bigger rear passengers.
Just a small note, there is no worse vehicle for snow than a pickup truck. I would take a FWD honda before I took a pickup truck to deal with snow ON the road. Also, the JKU has 50/50 weight distribution, and doesn't need any weight in the rear like a pickup.

Having said all that, a Jeep with front and rear LSDs would be 95% as good as an AWD vehicle in terms of dynamics.
07-12-2013 04:22 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lbear View Post
Beg to differ. Drove up 7 miles of forest road with 14" snow and drifts. Except for two high centers, which we dug out of, the Jeep was a champ and never stopped. Your Audi or Suburu would have never had the ground clearance and wouldn't have made it 100 yards in that stuff. Fellow Jeepers, get the tar and feathers.
While I won't comment about everywhere in the country, it is generally extremely rare where a road will have that much snow. Roads generally have compacted snow (as bad as ice) or ice, both of which are better suited for an AWD vehicle. Listen, I drove my Jeep through 2' of snow in Mont Tremblant, and it was an unstoppable champ, but that's not something you will normally encounter on a road on a consistent basis (sometimes if a blizzard is coming overnight they wait until the morning to plow).
07-12-2013 04:19 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Duratracs suck on the street. period.
Say what? I can understand you saying that when comparing them against a regular street tire, but comparing them to other ATs or MTs? They are as good as it gets.
07-12-2013 04:18 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsumtoy View Post
I have both, a 2013 JKU and a 2012 Audi A6. I have taken them both on packed snow and ice. I love my Jeep for off-roading, even deep snow but when the highway or road is packed snow and ice, I like being in my Audi better. But, do you want to take that Audi A6 which is $50-$60k in the snow? Probably not, it's too nice of a car. But the AWD is incredible on ice.
I don't see why not. It's safer (including if you crash) and if you do suffer damage, that's why you have insurance. When it comes to safety, it's just a hunk of metal...an insured hunk of metal. I wouldn't hesitate in the slightest, otherwise, why bother buying a vehicle like that in the first place?
07-12-2013 04:16 PM
ahsumtoy
I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Unless we are talking about deep offroad snow, the Wrangler isn't actually the best. Yes, it will get you there, but if I was driving a mountain road covered in some snow and ice, is the wrangler what I want as my #1 choice? No way. I would much rather have a vehicle with a centerdiff and AWD like a subaru or an audi. If your goal is to use roads to get to a ski slope, I would prefer an AWD vehicle. Again, the Wrangler will have no problem making it anywhere, but as far as safety and control, I'd prefer fulltime AWD on compacted snow and ice.
I have both, a 2013 JKU and a 2012 Audi A6. I have taken them both on packed snow and ice. I love my Jeep for off-roading, even deep snow but when the highway or road is packed snow and ice, I like being in my Audi better. But, do you want to take that Audi A6 which is $50-$60k in the snow? Probably not, it's too nice of a car. But the AWD is incredible on ice.
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