Jeep Wrangler Forum - Reply to Topic
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum > Beat up the new guy!

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Thread: Beat up the new guy! Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
07-18-2013 09:46 PM
loudvegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowren24 View Post
yeah its 1% under the dealer invoice not MSRP, so it will save you more than 1% over the sticker.

My JKU specced out to around $31,000 MSRP, and I ended up paying around $29,500. I cant remember the exact numbers, but I remember it saved me a little over $1,500, which comes out to be around 5%.

If I were you I would spec one out on the Jeep website, and take off 5%, It wont be exact, but it will be a ball park starting point. Assuming yuour 2door comes in under that, it might ended up being less than 5% being that that the invoice is lower, they may not mark up the MSRP as high.

Also, I believe the 1% is only going to be on a new Jeep, so going used wont help you.



Ok I built what you wanted realy quick, it came out to $25,475 MSRP.

If we take off 5%, we're at $23,202. plus delivery, tax, title etc,

you're probably looking at another $2,200. (taxes could be less if you have a trade in) so were at

$25,402. I'm guessing this is the best you're gonna do. If you absolutely need to get under $25,000, I wouldn't get the hard top. I have both tops, but if I could only have one it would be the soft top, no question about it.
Thank you, that is very helpful. I located one nearly 500 miles away that I'm speaking to the salesman about now. I think I'm going to shoot him a no higher than 25.7 or no deal. Thats the tipping point on such a basic vehicle IMO.
07-18-2013 03:06 PM
Snowren24
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudvegas View Post
Thanks! I assume you are referring to the dealer invoice and not window sticker MSRP?

Anyway to ballpark figure the dealer invoice price on what I spec'd above? Unfortunately, I am right at what I have saved for a downpayment vs. what I am willing to finance left over for 36 months. Im not being difficult with them on purpose...it's just THAAAT close.
yeah its 1% under the dealer invoice not MSRP, so it will save you more than 1% over the sticker.

My JKU specced out to around $31,000 MSRP, and I ended up paying around $29,500. I cant remember the exact numbers, but I remember it saved me a little over $1,500, which comes out to be around 5%.

If I were you I would spec one out on the Jeep website, and take off 5%, It wont be exact, but it will be a ball park starting point. Assuming yuour 2door comes in under that, it might ended up being less than 5% being that that the invoice is lower, they may not mark up the MSRP as high.

Also, I believe the 1% is only going to be on a new Jeep, so going used wont help you.

Ok I built what you wanted realy quick, it came out to $25,475 MSRP.

If we take off 5%, we're at $23,202. plus delivery, tax, title etc,

you're probably looking at another $2,200. (taxes could be less if you have a trade in) so were at

$25,402. I'm guessing this is the best you're gonna do. If you absolutely need to get under $25,000, I wouldn't get the hard top. I have both tops, but if I could only have one it would be the soft top, no question about it.
07-18-2013 02:45 PM
loudvegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowren24 View Post
If you watch for Jeep promotions, there really never are any on the wranglers. There might be $2500-$4000 cash back on some models, but $0 on wranglers.

Your best bet is the 1% below invoice tread lightly discount or the 1% employee friends and family discount. Go in there with the 1% discount and try to negotiate an additional 1%. Probably the best you can hope for.
Thanks! I assume you are referring to the dealer invoice and not window sticker MSRP?

Anyway to ballpark figure the dealer invoice price on what I spec'd above? Unfortunately, I am right at what I have saved for a downpayment vs. what I am willing to finance left over for 36 months. Im not being difficult with them on purpose...it's just THAAAT close.
07-18-2013 12:51 PM
Michel347
Quote:
I just put a set of 245/75/16 duratrecs on mine
Another brand but I went for the same size on the 16' EOM steel, waiting for new Alloy ones when I' ll swap tires for winter, winter will go on steel and the MT on the alloy ones.



07-18-2013 09:49 AM
Snowren24
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudvegas View Post
Did yours have the 17" alloys or 16" steels? Seems the ones I am finding have the Alloys and they are not budging on price.

A couple dealers have shot me a decent "internet" price before TTL and when I say, "sounds good, lets get the out the door price close to this" they act like I slapped their grandmother. "We can't discount wranglers...blah..blah..blah". I'm going to feel bad if this is true, but seems to me they CAN if the want to.
If you watch for Jeep promotions, there really never are any on the wranglers. There might be $2500-$4000 cash back on some models, but $0 on wranglers.

Your best bet is the 1% below invoice tread lightly discount or the 1% employee friends and family discount. Go in there with the 1% discount and try to negotiate an additional 1%. Probably the best you can hope for.
07-17-2013 10:36 PM
loudvegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by coelement777 View Post
I bought my 2013 with those same specs except no hard top for 25k otd about 3 weeks ago, and that includes tax which is just under 9% where i live. I would think you could get one with a hard top for 25,700 or so, dealer cost is about 700 on them. I just put a set of 245/75/16 duratrecs on mine and i like the way it looks. I didnt want to go too wide, as i didnt want to throw my speedo off too much and the wider you go the more expensive the tire is. heres mine.

Did yours have the 17" alloys or 16" steels? Seems the ones I am finding have the Alloys and they are not budging on price.

A couple dealers have shot me a decent "internet" price before TTL and when I say, "sounds good, lets get the out the door price close to this" they act like I slapped their grandmother. "We can't discount wranglers...blah..blah..blah". I'm going to feel bad if this is true, but seems to me they CAN if the want to.
07-16-2013 01:26 AM
coelement777
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudvegas View Post
Thanks guys, you all have been very helpful. I have been dealing with a couple dealers on some 2013s and it seems that they are not willing to deal much. Anyone want to shoot me a PM or let me know here what I should be paying for a:

2013 Sport (2 dr)
Hard Top
3.73
Manual
A/C

I found one, but it's got the "connectivity group" (which I don't care about) and factory 17" wheels. It looks nice but they would not bite at 25k OTD price. Am I lowballing THAT much?
I bought my 2013 with those same specs except no hard top for 25k otd about 3 weeks ago, and that includes tax which is just under 9% where i live. I would think you could get one with a hard top for 25,700 or so, dealer cost is about 700 on them. I just put a set of 245/75/16 duratrecs on mine and i like the way it looks. I didnt want to go too wide, as i didnt want to throw my speedo off too much and the wider you go the more expensive the tire is. heres mine.
07-15-2013 11:23 PM
jadmt I gotta agree lol.
07-15-2013 11:09 PM
loudvegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
Fly to Montana and drive my 2013 JKU home comes with both tops.

Nice looking rig but too many doors!
07-15-2013 11:02 PM
jadmt Fly to Montana and drive my 2013 JKU home comes with both tops.

07-15-2013 10:56 PM
loudvegas Thanks guys, you all have been very helpful. I have been dealing with a couple dealers on some 2013s and it seems that they are not willing to deal much. Anyone want to shoot me a PM or let me know here what I should be paying for a:

2013 Sport (2 dr)
Hard Top
3.73
Manual
A/C

I found one, but it's got the "connectivity group" (which I don't care about) and factory 17" wheels. It looks nice but they would not bite at 25k OTD price. Am I lowballing THAT much?
06-28-2013 12:44 PM
Snowren24 I have a manual JKU with 33s and 3.21 gears. 17" RR rims, and 285/70r17 (approx 33"x11") Cooper ATP tires, no lift. I also added some weight with the rock rails.

The 3.21 gears are sufficient, but if i had to do it all over again, I would get the 3.73s. Going up a steep hill, I sometimes have to downshift to 5 to keep up speed.

and because everyone likes pictures...
06-28-2013 12:27 PM
JeepHerz
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudvegas View Post
Thanks for all the input guys. By the way I have been looking at basic 2 door sport models with a hard top.

There seems to be a lot of love for the automatic, and I have seen comments such as "don't consider a 3.21 with a manual". What gives?

Aside from that, I have found a 3.73 M6 that they are asking $26,600 for. It's very basic with the only options being a hard top. What would you guys shoot them as a "Drive off the lot price" (Ie..after everything is said and done, after TTL, doc, Etc)
The reason many say "automatic" is because 6th gear in a manual with 3.21s is not very useful to most. Fine on flat roads but from what I understand any hills you'll be in 5th. The auto. is a 5 speed now and shifts nicely.
3.21s are perfectly fine with any of the tires sizes you're looking at and fine for a DD. However 3.73s are the best option all around. IMO. Why get"fine" when you can get "better"? No one ever regrets 3.73s over 3.21s; plenty of people regret 3.21s.
Start low on your offer and if they don't take it walk away. Patience is the best way to get a good deal.
06-28-2013 12:08 PM
Goldcomet Don't fear the gear. We just bought a 2013 JKU with 3.21 and a 6spd manual and you can hardly use 6th gear (it's hilly where we live). With today's transmissions geared so high I wish we had gotten 3.73's although I can't complain about performance, I just think 3.73's would be better all around. If you live in flatter country I think you have less concern.
06-28-2013 11:38 AM
Tom-JK6spds What do you like?... auto or stick?

I have a 3.8/ 3.21 on a stick. I've done some good wheeling with it and it does fine, I rather like the extra challenge of a manual on the dirt. I'm just not rock hopping or trailblazing. I lowered my expectations for fuel efficiency accordingly and it's my daily driver; I think I got about 19mpg on a recent 300 mile day trip with plenty of hill climbing and interstate travel. Sure it can be a slug on the street but rev it up to 4 or 5k and it'll move like a spooked hound. I've learned to live with the more infrequent gear popping from 1st and have adapted my clutch techniques as well- it's not my bmw for sure. Set your expectations accordingly and you'll be good to go.
06-28-2013 08:36 AM
loudvegas Thanks for all the input guys. By the way I have been looking at basic 2 door sport models with a hard top.

There seems to be a lot of love for the automatic, and I have seen comments such as "don't consider a 3.21 with a manual". What gives?

Aside from that, I have found a 3.73 M6 that they are asking $26,600 for. It's very basic with the only options being a hard top. What would you guys shoot them as a "Drive off the lot price" (Ie..after everything is said and done, after TTL, doc, Etc)
06-26-2013 06:48 PM
jp2611 Fwiw it depends where you live and what type of driving you do......mountains yeah probably gonna want the 3.73s to run 33"s as has been mentioned....but IMO you would be "allright" with the 3.21s an auto and 33 Duratracs...but that would probably mean changing wheels as well.

My basis.....I have an '04 TJ with 33"s Duratracs and 3.73's.....and while my mileage isn't "great" it hasn't suffered that much from what it was stock.


and the other half of the equation...we also have a '12 JK Sport with Auto and 3.21s..and it is fine...but it is on "stock" 32"s...and Duratracs measure small so yeah when its time for tires the JK is getting Duratracs and new wheels.

Where I am at in Northern IN is very similar to IL or KS...TJ does "okay" on the interstate...regular highway it is fine...but when we go to MI KY or TN yeah I wish for a regear!! For the TJ


The JK needs nothing!!!
06-26-2013 06:28 PM
Old Dogger
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudvegas View Post
doing with your rigs.

I would assuredly want to put some tires/wheels on this beach or mall crawler (as you guys call them here). I have been reading some conflicting information on what will and will not work with the gearing. I am a big fan of the shorter/stocky look and I loved the look of 31x10.50x15s with the classic "bullet hole" style wheels on my friends jeep 10 years ago.



.
Welcome to the Forum! Don't worry about getting beat up. Most are here to share their mechanical Wrangler knowledge and experiences and just have some fun!

31x10.5x15s look great on TJs, but are somewhat small and out of place on the larger more massive looking JK.
I would recommend 285x70Rx17s, with a 3:73 ratio. As for the trans, well either is good manual, or automatic, so whatever you prefer. This combination should both look and perform good for your type of usage!
06-26-2013 06:11 PM
Miser
Quote:
Originally Posted by wassup8687 View Post
Sounds like 3.73's and 285's are what you need. I have 285/70/17's on my stock rims and I love the look.
X2 with a automatic and never look back!
06-26-2013 05:41 PM
jrussblues 99% of the mall crawlers that I run into are running 35's on 2.5" of lift

It's kinda become the standard.

All jeeps (except those with 16" rims) come with a 32 stock. A 33 would be the equivalent of a 31 on your buddy's old jeep as those came with a 29, 30 or 31 stock depending on the year, model and options.

The wheel wells on a jk are much much larger than previous models.

If you are worried about gears then find one with the max tow package, it will have 3.73's.

The bigger problem with larger tires is not as much the circumference of the tire as it is the weight difference. A deeper gear helps both problems and choosing an all terrain over a mud tire helps as well.
06-26-2013 02:32 PM
Plasticpirogue I have a '13 JK Sport S (17" alloys w/ 255/75/17s=32") pushed by the auto and 3.21s. It works fine and actually is fairly spunky, even pulling a light boat on flat ground. The boat/motor/trailer is probably 1200-1300lbs and it works fine.

Not trailering I get 17.5mpg in town, and around 19mpg at Interstate speeds (75-80)....with a big kayak on top.

Pay little attention to the people who say the auto and 3.21s won't do what you want it to do. I don't wheel either other than light trails and gravel/dirt roads to get my kayaks to the fishing hole. That's why I bought it (to replace a 2000 TJ) and it does everything I ask of it.

When I wear out the OE rubber, I will probably just slap on a set of 265s DuraTracks (or the Wal-Fart version of the same tire).

Just because we don't wheel 'em, or mod the crap out of them, doesn't make us less of loyal Wrangler lovers. Not that I don't love the look of a jacked Wrangler, it's just not my thing.
06-26-2013 02:14 PM
Nano I have 33x12.5x15 Duratracs on my TJ's 15x8 wheels. I have the 3.73 gears and they are just slightly sluggish. I believe a JK running that exact setup would be fine, but I'm not sure how a JK with 3.21 gears would push it. Since you would have more/wider tires, it'll take more force to push them. Ofcourse 31x12.5 would be less tire, so 3.21 might be fine.

If you're buying off the lot, you'll have to work with what they have. If you're ordering new, you'll be able to get what you want.

I'm not even sure how much the gas milage changes between 3.21 & 3.73 gears.
06-26-2013 08:00 AM
wassup8687 Sounds like 3.73's and 285's are what you need. I have 285/70/17's on my stock rims and I love the look.
06-25-2013 11:53 PM
Up Hill Bill Tons of JKers run Duratracs in 33x12.5x15. You just need new 15" wheels with a lower offset than the stockers. There are tons of posts on the benefits of the Duratracs, wheel choices, etc....
06-25-2013 11:48 PM
loudvegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by suicideking View Post
You'd be fine going with 33's if you're not going to wheel it very hard.

You might also want to try to get some Rubi take offs. They're 32" MT tires. If buying from a Jeep dealer, they might already have some take offs laying around. You could negotiate for them.

Do you plan to lift at all? If so, will probably want at least 33's.

For the gears, as mentioned, you'll want the 3.73 if you are going to tow anything. Plus 3.73 are a good match for 33's. If going with 32" or less and not towing, you'll be fine with the 3.21. 3.21 will also give you better gas mileage.
No plans to lift it. Just mainly for enjoying nice days and to have something with some utility. Im thinking I want something with AT tires with a wider/fatter look and I will be dammed if I can find out which size that may be. I am OK with the stock height of the 17" setup that I drove, but just looked "skinny" to me. Any help on pointing me to a tire/wheel recommendation would be helpful too. Lets say <33 and at least 11" wide? Again, think mild
06-25-2013 11:45 PM
JeepCourtney3700 Welcome to the forum. No shame in not using the wrangler as the stereotypes suggest.

I could beat you up but I'd rather beat up my Courtney's p****.

Go get a jeep, just remember:

- dont drink and drive
- dont text and drive
- dont sleep and drive

And...

Don't act like an ass when you get your Wrangler.
06-25-2013 11:37 PM
suicideking You'd be fine going with 33's if you're not going to wheel it very hard.

You might also want to try to get some Rubi take offs. They're 32" MT tires. If buying from a Jeep dealer, they might already have some take offs laying around. You could negotiate for them.

Do you plan to lift at all? If so, will probably want at least 33's.

For the gears, as mentioned, you'll want the 3.73 if you are going to tow anything. Plus 3.73 are a good match for 33's. If going with 32" or less and not towing, you'll be fine with the 3.21. 3.21 will also give you better gas mileage.
06-25-2013 11:34 PM
Up Hill Bill You might get better MPG with 3.73s if most of your driving is city - but, as you said, if you really cared about economy, you wouldn't be looking at Wranglers!

I also wouldn't want to drive much stop-and-go city/town traffic with a manual, but I sure did just that in my youth, when my knees where in better shape!

Obviously, I'm biased, but the 2012-on auto tranny with 3.73s sure is sweet in all driving situations.

And, if you decide 3.21 axles suit your needs, you'll be fine (except maybe when crossing the Sierras) with 31" tires. Saharas come stock with 32" tires with 3.21s.

p.s. Wranglers aerodynamics are as bad as could be when you get to higher freeway speeds. Keep it 65 or below and it'll be fine. Lots of people report getting around 22 highway MPG, or even better, with 2-doors and manuals with 3.21 gears.
06-25-2013 11:33 PM
loudvegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdambm View Post
Alot of good questions. Do you ever ever ever plan on towing? If so then 3.73
You will save some coin by dropping down to a 16 wheel/tire combo. I stayed 17 because I wanted a certain wheel and it was only in that size. Just my .02 Good Luck
I don't have anything to tow other than a mountain bike or utility trailer to Home Depot from time to time.

I think I read somewhere that the tow rating is only 1,000 lbs anyway so so much for towing anything other than air. I know that is mostly due to the wheelbase.

Any input on my fuel concerns? Am I being unreasonable to expect that? Hell my dad's new F-150 achieves 19-20 at interstate speed and its gigantic with a 5.0L. I can't figure why these things seem to suck so bad in that department, weighing less and a V-6. (and aerodynamics should not bee much worse that a full size pickup, but what do I know).
06-25-2013 11:24 PM
jdambm
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudvegas View Post
First of all, I have been lurking here a bit on and off for the last couple years.

I am looking to pick up a new or low mileage 12-13 Sport and I have some questions. I have driven both the automatic and manual with the 3.6. Both jeps had the 3.21 axle and seemed to do fine on power either way. The manual was a bit "touchy" to get rolling in my opinion and I am no strangers to manuals. Perhaps just not used to the vehicle?

Anyway, for the bad news (don't beat me up to much here). This rig will be a 99.5% commuter with 80% city driving and 4-5 300mile one way trips per year (thus the option for the hard top). It MIGHT see a few muddy roads a couple times a year or a mud hole just for fun. I have no desire in rock crawling or extreme trail rides (its flat here anyway). So yes, It will be a "all show and no go" for the most part for what I have seen some of you guys doing with your rigs.

I would assuredly want to put some tires/wheels on this beach or mall crawler (as you guys call them here). I have been reading some conflicting information on what will and will not work with the gearing. I am a big fan of the shorter/stocky look and I loved the look of 31x10.50x15s with the classic "bullet hole" style wheels on my friends jeep 10 years ago.

My overall concern is can I go with a mild tire/wheel upgrade (mostly wider) with the 3.21 and still expect decent mileage. Yes I know its a Jeep and mileage is not great, but I would be with 19-20 highway and 15ish in town. Should I expect a big difference in the power I felt from test driving them as "stock"?

My apologies in advance for the book, and I read nearly 300 posts today in the "largest size tire with no lift" thread. I don't want 33s (I don't think), just a slightly "tougher" look than the stock 16" steel wheels and not so "skinny" as the stock 17" setup either. I would rather have a 16" aftermarket wheel with slightly shorter (32"?) tires that had a wider appearance on some "deeper" wheels.

After reading here all day today, I am half tempted to hold off and try to find a 3.73 jeep if I will wind up miserable but I have found a good deal on a 3.21 manual and worry that I may be worrying to much. No more worries...yall decide for me

Thank you in advance to anyone who took the time to read this new guys incoherent blabbing and provides any input.
Alot of good questions. Do you ever ever ever plan on towing? If so then 3.73
You will save some coin by dropping down to a 16 wheel/tire combo. I stayed 17 because I wanted a certain wheel and it was only in that size. Just my .02 Good Luck
This thread has more than 30 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC