|07-26-2013 02:20 PM|
|GreenTJ4JC||Final chapter - through all this I wound up with two new radiators. The OEM is in the TJ and the one from Radiator Express finally arrived (two weeks late) so I have a new radiator - in a box - that fits my 2004 TJ and don't need it. If anyone needs or wants a radiator the first $100 takes it. (I'm taking a loss, but less of one than I would if I sent it back...) I've posted up in the 'for sale' area....|
|07-21-2013 07:00 PM|
Took a bit of a road trip today to the wheeling area. Temps were perfect the whole time. It was definitely the radiator. Glad to have this problem 'licked.' Wish I'd just bought it on step #2 several months ago; but then I wouldn't have learned as much as I did. Thanks to everyone on this forum for your part and role in this learning adventure!
|07-20-2013 06:50 PM|
|Black Magic Brakes||
One thing I noticed was the mix you achieved after the flush. I've mentioned this several times and it seems to get ignored, but it does make a difference.
After I get the flush done and am running fresh water through the system, I do the last one with distilled water to dilute the tap water down as far as possible because there is no easy way to get all the water out of the block.
Then when I do my coolant + distilled water mix, I try to get about 60% coolant and 40% distilled water going due to the amount of water left in the block. If you have a coolant tester and use it, you will find that if you start with a 50/50 mix after a water flush, it will no longer be 50/50 by the time you get it full.
I also have the same experiences with radiators and what was supposed to be "known" good wasn't, even though I could find nothing wrong with it and it was much cleaner looking inside that the pic you put up.
|07-20-2013 06:45 PM|
|07-20-2013 01:39 PM|
|Chuck59||Appreciate the post. Your difficulty's will help others that are pulling their hair out with similar situation.|
|07-20-2013 12:47 PM|
|1jeeplvr||Glad you got it worked out.|
|07-19-2013 07:15 PM|
The radiator was the issue. You may ask (as did I) Why??
Readers may recall that I've been fighting hotter-than-normal temps with my TJ since last Feb, when it "burped" all over the driver's fender and fender well. First replaced the radiator cap. No better. Then removed the radiator and had to decide whether to take it to a professional radiator shop and have them flush it, or buy a new one. Decided to do the flush. They pronounced it 'good as new' because it held pressure and there were no flow restrictions. Also replaced the thermostat and all hoses at the same time. Still no better. Several forums later (and a few mechanics later) had me convinced the water pump impeller could be damaged. Replaced that (all OEM). While I had it off I could see inside the engine's water jacket and there was a red-brown fine-grit sandpaper appearance. But the old water pump looked OK and the new water pump didn't fix it. Next did a Prestone chemical flush - the 3-day drive, with a 15-minute back flush (I caught all the anti-freeze and only water went into the sewers - T-fitting is not leaking). Installed the genuine HOAT stuff (Google "ReCycool" and read up on the different anti-freeze kinds - VERY informative!) using distilled water. This actually made it run hotter until I thinned out the mix to -10 (a 50/50 mix had it at -40). Now it's back to the way it was, which is to say still running hot on the highway. So circled back to the radiator. The pros had pronounced it 'good as new.' But it was the only thing left! So I popped for the OEM radiator (yep, there are cheaper ones available after-market, but this one was exactly the same as the old one and went in super-easy, so it's worth it to me!), put it in the morning, and the Jeep's finally back to its old self. I tested it running it pretty hard down the highway for over 30 minutes. The temps are in the mid-90s, the dew points are in the mid-70s, and just to really test it, I ran with the A/C on. It did great.
So why did the new radiator work better than the professionally-flushed and then Prestone back-flushed old unit? Here's my hypothesis - and I encourage ya'll to kick this around, and if at the end of the day this hypothesis holds water, then all my time and money will save someone else the heartburn.
The hypothesis - even though the old radiator held pressure just fine, and it flowed without restriction, I saw the same red/brown fine-grit sandpaper appearance in the top of the radiator core that I saw inside the water pump area. (See photo.) It's my belief that, even though there was adequate flow the whole time, this little bit of corrosion was sufficient to prevent the radiator from doing its primary job - acting as an effecient heat exchanger! The cure? Change the radiator fluid regularly!
During the course of all this, I discovered that anti-freeze does more than just prevent freeze ups and boil overs. It's designed to control corrosion in the water system. The old-style 'green' (Prestone, for instance) adds stuff to their ethylene glycol that does just this. But I learned that the additives are actually "consumed" during the process. That means that after a period of time, there's no more additive left to do its secondary job of preventing corrosion. The Jeep-recommended HOAT (Zerex G0-5 - I found mine at Advance Auto Parts) is a Hybrid Organic Acid Technology and has a useful life of perhaps five years, rather than the two years of the regular stuff. This Jeep hasn't been changed out for far too long, and hence the corrosion in the water system.
Acting now can save you my cost and aggravation. Change out the antifreeze regularly, and if your Jeep (or any other car, for that matter) is running hot at highway speeds, a radiator flush may not be enough to restore the radiator's ability to effectively get rid of heat.
The attached photo is of my old radiator. It really doesn't look that bad, does it? But evidently, that's all the corrosion that was needed to cause my problems, because that corrosion is in all the little heat-exchanging passageways, too.
|07-19-2013 08:52 AM|
|Notoriously_rob||Garden hose flush and then use distilled water|
|07-19-2013 08:33 AM|
|07-19-2013 05:49 AM|
Do you use distilled water for the flush? I never have before. I always just used a garden hose, but as I get older, I think distilled water would be better for the cooling system. Your thoughts?
|07-19-2013 01:26 AM|
|Jerry Bransford||Make sure to only use distilled (!) water to mix with the fresh coolant. Zerex G-05 would be a good choice after thoroughly flushing all of the old coolant out of the block.|
|07-18-2013 09:20 PM|
|07-17-2013 06:32 AM|
|Chuck59||Updates on your issues?|
|07-13-2013 10:52 AM|
|07-12-2013 10:03 PM|
|strokedtj||How hot is your transmission running? Your trans cooler is running through your rad.and that will cause the coolant to run hotter.|
|07-12-2013 09:43 PM|
I've been methodical through all this, starting with the radiator cap, then getting the radiator cleaned, then on from there. Now that everything (everything except the radiator!) is new and it's still doing exactly the same thing, I've circled back to focus on the radiator. When I drain it, it takes about 5 minutes to fill a 1-gallon jug. I read on another forum of someone else that had similar issues, replaced his radiator and all was well again. With this thing draining so slowly, I'm about 90% convinced that whatever service the radiator place did (assuming they did anything at all) was ineffective. Once I get a new radiator in, I'll know for sure whether or not their work was worth the $65 I paid them. That $65 was supposed to save me a bunch of money; if I paid that, then assumed that my radiator was 'good as new' and continued to spend money and time chasing a problem that didn't exist (except in the radiator!) I'll be really really bummed.
I tried ordering from Radiator Express. Salesman provided bad information. Problems with shipment as a result. I'm not happy with RadEx right now...
|07-12-2013 09:36 PM|
|07-12-2013 09:35 PM|
|07-12-2013 12:12 PM|
First, are you absolutely positive all of the air that gets trapped in the cooling system whenever it is opened up has been burped out? An easy way to insure no air remains trapped is to install the proper 195 degree thermostat with an air bleed hole in it, with the thermostat installed so the bleed hole is positioned at the top.
If your thermostat doesn't have a bleed hole like is shown below, you can drill your own in the same location. A 1/8" hole in the flange in the same location as below is fine.
And a winch does not reduce air flow enough to cause the engine to run hotter, unless the cooling system has a problem and is marginal to begin with. We run winches on the fronts of our Jeeps that we wheel in the hottest imaginable desert conditions without overheating problems. My high profile winches with top mounted solenoid enclosures have never made my cooling systems run any hotter.
|07-12-2013 12:09 PM|
|MosesTJ||What size tires on what gears? The reason I ask is I was good with 33's and 3.73 gears. I recently put 35's on and it seems to run warmer on the highway. I have not linked the two yet just something I've noticed.|
|07-12-2013 12:03 PM|
|Chuck59||Have you cleaned out the radiator fins? Hose it from front and get all the dirt and bugs out. My 04 LJ got a bit warm at similar at highway speed. My air conditioner condenser "radiator" in front of the actual radiator was just dirty and not letting air flow thru. Garden hose with spray nozzle took care of it|
|07-06-2013 08:44 PM|
|05-06-2013 03:30 AM|
|05-05-2013 12:34 AM|
Drive around the block before doing the cold test on the clutch. The silicone will settle overnight locking the fan and give a false resistance test. I'd rule out the fan clutch first just because it's so easy but I don't think it's the clutch.
Mine was doing the same thing when my system wasn't holding pressure. I did everything at once (flush, stat, cap, tighten hoses) so I can't say which one solved the issue but it's either the cap or hoses. I switched out all the factory clamps for worm clamps and cinched those babies down. Pressure tested good after that and stays a needle width below 210 on the highway.
|05-05-2013 12:12 AM|
|05-04-2013 11:21 PM|
My guess is the fan clutch, cheap fix $50 or so. That was the issue with mine...started with thermostat, then rad cap, finally fan clutch...WAALAA no more issues
|05-03-2013 08:08 PM|
|GreenTJ4JC||Drove it to work today - 12 miles one way - some at highway speeds except that it was snowing like nuts, so below 50 the whole time - it got north of 210 early on - then after about five miles went south of 210 and stayed there. Weird. Sending unit issue? Temp guage? Air in the water? Coming home tonight, still cold outside (33-degrees) and it behaved all the way home. Maybe I have a Bermuda Triangle Event hanging under my hood???|
|05-02-2013 11:35 PM|
|LilYeller||I have the same thing going on, I also put hood louvers on mine to allow the heat to escape the engine bay to no avail. Will be following this thread, hope we get some good ideas.|
|05-02-2013 11:30 PM|
|_plaisance||i find that since i put my winch mine stays hot i have the same jeep as you 02 x with 97k and i stay at 210 or north of it never below it|
|05-02-2013 11:25 PM|
TJ running warm
I've read through dozens of threads on this forum and several others, but have a situation not covered in any of the threads I've read. My TJ runs with temps well south of the 210 mark at slower speeds (below 55) but when I run higher than that, the temp gauge runs north of the 210 mark. If I get off the Interstate and back onto slower roads, it will eventually cool back down.
Here's more specifics to aid in your guidance: It's an 04 TJ "X" with 70,000 miles, the 4.0 liter in-line 6, 5-speed manual, 4.56 gears with 32" BFG Mud-Terrains, A/C, winch. Here's what I've already done: Had the radiator out and to a radiator shop where they (supposedly) cleaned it out (it's a composite so they couldn't do the boil out/rod like in the old days), all new radiator and heater hoses (all OEM), new Stant radiator cap and I put in a Stant SuperStat 180-degree T-stat, new serpentine belt. While the radiator was out I got foaming air conditioner cleaner and cleaned out the A/C condensor as much as possible - I can see through it quite well. No leaks anywhere, not losing water. Fan clutch has roughly the same amount of resistance whether hot or cold. Upper radiator hose has quite a bit of pressure when hot. When I warm the engine with the radiator cap off, I can see what appears to be pretty good flow. When it's running down the highway the temp gauge is north of 210 but not near the red - maybe 220 max?
I've been on smaller forums but haven't run into that 'one person' who's 'been there and fixed that,' hopefully this huge forum has someone on it with a similar past experience.