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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-29-2013 03:45 PM
Derp
Quote:
Originally Posted by WredTJ View Post
Tons of great info from Jerry and the guys. As a point of financial reference to the OP:
Local Midas shop charges $149 fora 4 wheel alignment. I think that the quote you received was grossly overpriced.
We only need a 2 wheel no aligning the rear.
08-29-2013 12:07 PM
T2000J
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJeep View Post

I'm trying to take it one step at a time.

I think my next step will be new wheels and tires, !
Jerry is full of great info
As far as tires very good place to start . I could not be leave how Critical they can be with the TJ's when I first got into them .
08-29-2013 11:44 AM
WredTJ Tons of great info from Jerry and the guys. As a point of financial reference to the OP:
Local Midas shop charges $149 fora 4 wheel alignment. I think that the quote you received was grossly overpriced.
08-29-2013 11:21 AM
RustyJeep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
5 degrees of caster angle won't cause DW & increasing the caster to the factory 7 degrees likely won't help at all.

I'd be looking at other issues like an imperfectly balanced tire, loose track bar mount, etc.
Thanks Jerry and T2000J!

I'm trying to take it one step at a time. I had the tires balanced to see if that would help and the tire guys said the tires were really bad. The worst needed 6 oz. on one side to balance it. They put the best two on the front. It helped a little bit, but the wobble starts at about 56 mph, every time, and gets worse as I go faster, so for now, I keep to the right and go my 1 mph over the minimum speed limit for the few miles I go on the expressway here and there.

Trackbar, ball joints, TRE's, and steering box bolts all seem tight. Not sure about the steering box internals - there seems to be some play in there.

I think my next step will be new wheels and tires, but I figured if that didn't work, I would try to play with the caster angle a little bit to see how it changed the feel.

I talked with a former Jeep engineer and he said "go back to stock sizes" and that larger and heavier tires and heavier wheels that I am planning to get are going to probably make it worse...I figure there are plenty of Jeep owners with larger, heavier wheels that don't have DW, so I can figure this out!
08-29-2013 09:48 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJeep View Post
So, if I do have a 98 where it is adjustable, how would one go about adjusting it?

I have DW and want to experiment with some adjustments myself if that is possible without taking it to the shop over and over. I see how I can do that with the toe, but I wanted to see if caster was pretty easy as well, since it is listed as a DW contributor on many of the DW write-ups.

Right now I am running ~29" tires, which someone told me is slightly oversized over factory, and my caster measured around 5 deg when I last had it checked. I thought increasing may help, based on some of the info I have read, to the 6 or 7 deg range.

Thanks in advance if anyone can offer some guidance.
5 degrees of caster angle won't cause DW & increasing the caster to the factory 7 degrees likely won't help at all.

I'd be looking at other issues like an imperfectly balanced tire, loose track bar mount, etc.
08-28-2013 06:54 PM
my996duc1 Just Tires will check your alignment for free.
Then if it needs adjusting they will charge you if you want it fixed.
On mine they checked the tire and axle alignment for free. I see the tire alignment is an easy check but not sure about the axle alignment.

_
08-28-2013 02:33 PM
T2000J
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJeep View Post

So, if I do have a 98 where it is adjustable, how would one go about adjusting it?
.
The LCA's where they mount to the axle you'll see the cam bolts .
08-28-2013 02:00 PM
RustyJeep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Unless you have a '97 or '98 where the Caster angle is adjustable...
So, if I do have a 98 where it is adjustable, how would one go about adjusting it?

I have DW and want to experiment with some adjustments myself if that is possible without taking it to the shop over and over. I see how I can do that with the toe, but I wanted to see if caster was pretty easy as well, since it is listed as a DW contributor on many of the DW write-ups.

Right now I am running ~29" tires, which someone told me is slightly oversized over factory, and my caster measured around 5 deg when I last had it checked. I thought increasing may help, based on some of the info I have read, to the 6 or 7 deg range.

Thanks in advance if anyone can offer some guidance.
08-03-2013 10:33 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landon II View Post
Jerry that's a great idea. Thanks
How do you know how to set castor or is it caster.
Unless you have a '97 or '98 where the Caster angle is adjustable, neither the Caster angle nor Camber angle is adjustable the way the Jeep leaves the factory. It would require installing adjustable type replacement parts like adjustable length control arms or adjustable ball joints to be able to adjust the Caster & Camber angles.

So when some bring their TJ into an aligment shop, they aren't getting what they think they are... the shop is getting away with setting nothing but the toe-in which is bone-head simple & fast to do. Of course the shop won't mention that.
08-03-2013 06:56 AM
yoopone The home made alignment jig is very cool. Thank you guys for the instructions on how to do that in my garage. After a new lift though I did go to an alignment shop. The lift I installed was the RE 3.5" Super flex. It comes with adjustable Upper Control Arms but the bottoms are fixed. My Buddy had the fancy computer aided 4 wheel alignment machine. Both front and rear axles had new adjustable track bars also. He aligned all 4 wheels so both axles were perfectly centered. I know I could have done that at home and I had, I just wanted them dialed in perfectly. What I do not know if it could be caught at home was the thrust angle on the rear axle could was not in spec. Couldn't adjust that with only the upper control arms so I ended up going and buying Currie adjustable lower control arms. Second time around we got thrust angle in spec and all 4 wheels aligned, centered, etc. For the $100 it cost me, (he did not charge me second time around) I can't imagine how much time I would have spent in the garage trying to align all that. Some jobs make sense farming out unless you are going to be doing it repetitively.
07-31-2013 10:51 PM
rdock31
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
What works for me assuming you have tready tires. I screw 2 small screws in the treads-somewhere in the middle of each tire. Hook the tape measure on one, Run across and measure Rotate tires 180 and measure the back side. Really easy to do yourself. Takes 10 minutes or less.
Went this route, works well! Just took a bit to get the tie rod loose. Saved money and learned something new!
07-31-2013 09:28 PM
Landon II Jerry that's a great idea. Thanks
How do you know how to set castor or is it caster.
07-31-2013 05:35 PM
tkfx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
(no, not WD40)
BUT BUT WD40 is the magical cure all liquid!
07-31-2013 05:27 PM
WVU Mountainman Lol!!! Good stuff
07-31-2013 02:38 PM
Derp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Not at all. The tie rod can be difficult to rotate the first time but liberal use of something like Liquid Wrench, PB-BLASTER, Break Free, or Kroil (no, not WD40) plus a big set of water pump pliers is usually enough. A pipe wrench can be very handy breaking it free the first time.
I like my large vice grips too! Sometimes I don't feel like getting the pipe wrench out lol
07-31-2013 11:44 AM
Jerry Bransford Not at all. The tie rod can be difficult to rotate the first time but liberal use of something like Liquid Wrench, PB-BLASTER, Break Free, or Kroil (no, not WD40) plus a big set of water pump pliers is usually enough. A pipe wrench can be very handy breaking it free the first time.
07-31-2013 11:15 AM
rdock31 How likely is it for the tie rod to bend from trying to break it loose.
07-31-2013 11:09 AM
Cons_Table Attachment 279845
07-31-2013 11:02 AM
kjeeper10 Time to put the peanut butter away
07-31-2013 11:00 AM
Jerry Bransford Who dat who say who dat.
07-31-2013 10:34 AM
WVU Mountainman
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post

Who has time for dis lol
Just kidding .....
Ain't nobody got time for dat
07-31-2013 09:58 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Two pieces of 1" square aluminum tubing marked at points to equal your tire diameter, and two spring clamps to hold them centered on the rotors. Make sure the front axle is supported via jackstands so everything is weighted the same as it is when you're driving.

Just measure between them at the marks equal to your tire diameter, then rotate the tie rod until the front is 1/16" to 1/8" closer together than it is in the rear. I lean towards 1/16" for my 35" tires, I'd lean towards 1/8" for a small factory-size tires.

Full credit for this idea & photos goes to Blaine Johnson of Black Magic Brakes & Savvy Offroad.
Who has time for dis lol
Just kidding .....
07-31-2013 09:42 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by thgr8alex View Post
Just curious jerry, ill be checking mine soon just to make sure its good but what was the method you mentioned that makes it easier than measuring inbetween tire tread?
Two pieces of 1" square aluminum tubing marked at points to equal your tire diameter, and two spring clamps to hold them centered on the rotors. Make sure the front axle is supported via jackstands so everything is weighted the same as it is when you're driving.

Just measure between them at the marks equal to your tire diameter, then rotate the tie rod until the front is 1/16" to 1/8" closer together than it is in the rear. I lean towards 1/16" for my 35" tires, I'd lean towards 1/8" for a small factory-size tires.

Full credit for this idea & photos goes to Blaine Johnson of Black Magic Brakes & Savvy Offroad.
07-31-2013 09:41 AM
Water Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
What works for me assuming you have tready tires. I screw 2 small screws in the treads-somewhere in the middle of each tire. Hook the tape measure on one, Run across and measure Rotate tires 180 and measure the back side. Really easy to do yourself. Takes 10 minutes or less.
I use basially the same system, but with duct tape and sharpie instead of screws. Just place the duct tape edge along a lug that you can hook a tape on and mark it.
07-31-2013 01:38 AM
kjeeper10 What works for me assuming you have tready tires. I screw 2 small screws in the treads-somewhere in the middle of each tire. Hook the tape measure on one, Run across and measure Rotate tires 180 and measure the back side. Really easy to do yourself. Takes 10 minutes or less.
07-31-2013 12:18 AM
thgr8alex Just curious jerry, ill be checking mine soon just to make sure its good but what was the method you mentioned that makes it easier than measuring inbetween tire tread?
07-30-2013 09:25 AM
Jerry Bransford For a TJ, there really is no need to take it to an alignment shop if you own a tape measure, wrench, & pliers or a pipe wrench for rotating the tie rod. In all seriousness and without exaggeration, your toe-in (the only thing that is adjustable) can be set every bit as accurately at home as can be set on the latest whiz-bang laser alignment rack can produce. Really.

All that needs to be done is to rotate the tie-rod until the tires are 1/16" to 1/8" closer together in front than they are in the rear.

The Basic Alignment link given in post #2 above shows everything needed, including how to re-center the steering wheel which is just as easy.

I'll post a pair of photos tonight of a method that makes the toe-in adjustment measurement even easier than measuring between the tire treads, and more repeatable as well.

The bottom line is you don't need to pay to have this done, it's far easier to do than you could guess. And with just a little care, your results will be just as accurate as an alignent shop can produce. Really.
07-30-2013 06:55 AM
Derp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cptc223 View Post
I had a 2013 Jk with 806 miles on it I put one on last week it doesn't take much camber off to wear tires nothing was bent on it I have a Hunter alignment rack and Car O Liner computerized measuring system for frames and every other mechanical part of a vehicle that measures to the precise millimeter this one came from the factory that way I see stuff happen like that all the time.
The jk was just outta spec by .50 degrees which would wear tires. All I'm saying is if it was mine and I had an expensive set of tires on my Lj I would want the set to last as long as the could correctly without irregular wear on the edges.
I'm not trying to argue or tell the guy to do something he wouldn't want to do im just telling him from experience what id do.
We're all here to help eachother out aren't we?
They really aren't that necessary on a straight axle. Never had mine out of spec since. Bought it. Hell I know people running 40's and the like wearing even..
07-29-2013 11:41 PM
Cptc223 I had a 2013 Jk with 806 miles on it I put one on last week it doesn't take much camber off to wear tires nothing was bent on it I have a Hunter alignment rack and Car O Liner computerized measuring system for frames and every other mechanical part of a vehicle that measures to the precise millimeter this one came from the factory that way I see stuff happen like that all the time.
The jk was just outta spec by .50 degrees which would wear tires. All I'm saying is if it was mine and I had an expensive set of tires on my Lj I would want the set to last as long as the could correctly without irregular wear on the edges.
I'm not trying to argue or tell the guy to do something he wouldn't want to do im just telling him from experience what id do.
We're all here to help eachother out aren't we?
07-29-2013 11:25 PM
Cons_Table
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cptc223 View Post
You can prolly get your toe and caster correct but the only way to get your camber in spec if its out is to put offset ball joints in the price seems a little steep but if your gonna drive it alot and or are worried about tire wear I think you should get it done correctly.
I do alignments for a living vehicles with lifts are harder to adjust but the equipment I use isn't cheap so it kinda helps on adjusting
But that still seems kinda high I would say nothing more than 125 would be reasonable for an alignment
Funny thing is, offset ball joints are pretty uncommon on jeeps. They are available, but you dont hear people using them too often. The only reason you would need offset balljoints is if there is something bent on the housing...otherwise the regular ones are fine.
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