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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-09-2013 03:58 PM
The Green Monster I agree, it takes a lot to the get FJ to a very difficult level of wheelin. The IFS doesnt really handle 35s without some serious modification. However my original question was about a buddy who does mild to moderate wheelin. This led to my comment that I was disappointed more of the jeeps didn't come with lockers. Keep in mind I went from an FJ to a jeep to get more off road ability, so I am not fighting you here. However I will stand by that the average FJ (which has a locker) is a capable 4x4 that could do things that an open/open vehicle could just not do.

In my group's last trail ride, the weakest rig was a jeep wrangler. It was lifted and with larger tires. However it was open/open. He required more help, spots, tries, etc. than any of the other rigs. Its not that toyotas are better than jeeps, or the other way around, its a wheelin arena having a locker is a significant advantage.

Please don't judge this video as proof that I am some hard wheeler, because I am not. Just trying to show I wheel with all types of vehicles. I am a recreational offroading enthusiast. This was predominantly mild-moderate stuff. I have an open mind when it comes to vehicles and the group I ride with represents all types of vehicles. The black jeep shown at the very beginning is the rig that struggled the most. Again, not because it was a jeep, but because it was open/open.

I am not looking to get into a pissing competition over jeep vs. Toyota.

Daily Driver Off-Roaders Uwharrie (July 27, 2013) - YouTube
08-09-2013 03:33 PM
tabber02
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
Well I have wheeled in both, and will tell you the solid front axle is an advantage over the IFS. However in terrain were a locker wouldn't be needed, you wouldn't need that advantage anyway and both would get the job done. In terrain where you could use that advantage a locker is an even bigger advantage. I know this is a jeep forum, and I will get slammed for saying this, but the FJ with a locker is an incredibly capable vehicle and can do things and go places you just cant without a locker. I am sorry, I am honest, and call it like I see it.
have you seen what a jeep can do with a locker? or just lift and no locker. you can't do that with an FJ. sorry - but you can't... you'd need like 10k to mod the FJ to get it close to what a jeep could do with a 2.5" lift... and one locker. and i've wheeled an FJ too.. and i wasn't impressed.

08-09-2013 12:34 PM
The Green Monster
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabber02 View Post
yeah... i'm going to have to disagree with you there. no stock fj would outperform a JK, probably not even a fresh off the showroom TJ (with less belly clearance). really any solid axle 4x4..
even an FJ with lockers. no chance..
Well I have wheeled in both, and will tell you the solid front axle is an advantage over the IFS. However in terrain were a locker wouldn't be needed, you wouldn't need that advantage anyway and both would get the job done. In terrain where you could use that advantage a locker is an even bigger advantage. I know this is a jeep forum, and I will get slammed for saying this, but the FJ with a locker is an incredibly capable vehicle and can do things and go places you just cant without a locker. I am sorry, I am honest, and call it like I see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
I picked a Sahara over a Rubi for the exact same reason. I honestly don't spend much time at max articulation or in 4lo, so limited slip is 10x more important to me than ediscos, lockers, and a 4:1 transfer case. A D44 up front would be nice, but it is not needed for the occasional grass field and dirt trail that I drive down on stock wheels. I spend more time on pavement than rocks, and winter driving is a concern....so AT tires are better for me than MT's. We often hear "it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it"....which is true, but in reality, a stock Jeep Wrangler....even the lowly Sahara...is one of the most capable vehicles on the planet. It is already more than I'll likely ever need...which is why I have it.
I am with you. I am still telling my friend for what he is likely to do, he would be better off getting a Sport. Then if he feels he needs more, just adding an aftermarket locker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasticpirogue View Post
The Yotas need 'em with that IFS!

As an old Jeeper, I get a real chuckle when I read post inferring that if it's not a Rubi, then it's certainly not a capable offroader. I say BS....where in the heck do you think the legend came from? The Rubi is a good machine sure, but Wranglers have been blazing trails (and CJs before that) long before lockers and electronic discos came along.
It has nothing to do with a rubicon name. However to deny a locking differential gives you more off road ability is just silly. Its not to say people don't wheel without them. People also wheel with 2 wheel drives. As an old jeeper you should know that people use to wheel with 30" tires. It would be analogous to say that 33"+ tires don't give you an advantage either.
08-09-2013 10:01 AM
tabber02
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post

I'm tempted to start a "Why did you choose a Sahara" thread so that these kinds of stories can be told. The way they get bashed, you would think Sahara's were front wheel drive with independent front and rear suspension or something.
sounds like a perfect idea to me... and that second part there.. --> cracks me up. i know more folks wheeling with sahara's and sports than with rubi's!

just sayin!
08-09-2013 09:57 AM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpostman View Post
Be Aware that some of us may have chosen a Jeep to go hunting & Fishing with. I have absolutely no intention of doing any rock climbing or serious wheeling. I live in eastern Canada and have lots of snowy conditions on main roads where lockers would be absolutely useless for everyday use. I chose a Sahara over Rubicon because I could get the LSD, which is much more practical for me in my situation, and I suspect for others as well. The jeep is a very nice vehicle and very adaptable fort many uses, but It feels like some people think that if you don't use your jeep for rock climbing, it is a wasted jeep. I've only had mine for 3 months and have about 4500 miles on it. Just came back from an 8 day trip on the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton NS (Look it up, it's fantastic) pulling a utility trailer with all our camping gear. Many very steep inclines and grades. came within inches of hitting a moose... twice! And hunting season hasn't even started yet.

I don't want this post to sound whiny, but all of the available options can be better suited for different uses. That's why they are there.

/rant:off
dp
Half the time I don't even bother getting on that soapbox any more.
You are 100% correct.
I picked a Sahara over a Rubi for the exact same reason. I honestly don't spend much time at max articulation or in 4lo, so limited slip is 10x more important to me than ediscos, lockers, and a 4:1 transfer case. A D44 up front would be nice, but it is not needed for the occasional grass field and dirt trail that I drive down on stock wheels. I spend more time on pavement than rocks, and winter driving is a concern....so AT tires are better for me than MT's. We often hear "it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it"....which is true, but in reality, a stock Jeep Wrangler....even the lowly Sahara...is one of the most capable vehicles on the planet. It is already more than I'll likely ever need...which is why I have it.

I'm tempted to start a "Why did you choose a Sahara" thread so that these kinds of stories can be told. The way they get bashed, you would think Sahara's were front wheel drive with independent front and rear suspension or something.
08-09-2013 09:47 AM
tabber02
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
However given the same tires, I think your average FJ (most come with a locker and A-trac) would out perform your average jeep (non-rubicon) in a wheeling aspect.
yeah... i'm going to have to disagree with you there. no stock fj would outperform a JK, probably not even a fresh off the showroom TJ (with less belly clearance). really any solid axle 4x4..

even an FJ with lockers. no chance..
08-09-2013 09:41 AM
Plasticpirogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
(kind of like a LSD, but done electronically with braking)

I think your average FJ (most come with a locker and A-trac) would out perform your average jeep (non-rubicon) in a wheeling aspect.
All Wranglers come with BLD (Brake Lock Differential); though not technically a locker, it comes dang close.
08-09-2013 09:36 AM
Plasticpirogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
If this is true, than that is pretty sad. I am coming over from the FJ world, and about 75% of the FJs have rear lockers. LSD is ok, but it is far from being an equivalent to a locker.
The Yotas need 'em with that IFS!

As an old Jeeper, I get a real chuckle when I read post inferring that if it's not a Rubi, then it's certainly not a capable offroader. I say BS....where in the heck do you think the legend came from? The Rubi is a good machine sure, but Wranglers have been blazing trails (and CJs before that) long before lockers and electronic discos came along.
08-09-2013 09:32 AM
The Green Monster Dpostman, I completely agree. I have no issues with anyone getting a jeep without a locker. Its all about what you want to do with it. I had an FJ and traded it in for the jeep (rubicon) because I wanted the ability to wheel 35s with front/rear lockers. Probably less than 2% of the people with 4x4s need this, but I did. My original question was to gather information for a friend who is considering trading his FJ for a jeep. He does not do as much difficult wheelin as I, so I thought he could just pick up a Sport/Sahara with a rear locker and be fine. His FJ has a rear locker and Atrac (kind of like a LSD, but done electronically with braking) in the front and rear when the locker is not engaged. So for him to go into a jeep without a locker would result in significantly less off road ability.

I am not a die hard jeep fan, nor a die hard Toyota fan. The Rubicon definitely has an advantage over the FJ with respect to wheelin. However given the same tires, I think your average FJ (most come with a locker and A-trac) would out perform your average jeep (non-rubicon) in a wheeling aspect.

Like you said, there are plenty of reasons to get a 4x4. Wheeling was just the one I was referring to because its how we use our's.
08-09-2013 08:29 AM
tabber02
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
Can you get a front LSD?
if you have the BLD in the rear axle, best thing to do is throw a selectable locker in the front axle.... big assumption here - but if we're talking about lockers, we're talking about some significant wheeling...

as for the disappointment that JKs (sport and sahara models) not coming with lockers. my only comment is wheel one for a while. you'll be amazed.

my experiences.... not that you asked i wheeled my rig for a touch over two years before i threw the locker in (OX front) and honestly, it has made things easier... and made me a little braver - but with tire pressure adjustments, i could do almost everything i'm doing now. only difference being crawling on rocks.. that's tough without a locker, unless you wanna blast through it.

0.02 = $37 and change

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpostman View Post
Be Aware that some of us may have chosen a Jeep to go hunting & Fishing with. I have absolutely no intention of doing any rock climbing or serious wheeling. I live in eastern Canada and have lots of snowy conditions on main roads where lockers would be absolutely useless for everyday use. I chose a Sahara over Rubicon because I could get the LSD, which is much more practical for me in my situation, and I suspect for others as well. The jeep is a very nice vehicle and very adaptable fort many uses, but It feels like some people think that if you don't use your jeep for rock climbing, it is a wasted jeep. I've only had mine for 3 months and have about 4500 miles on it. Just came back from an 8 day trip on the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton NS (Look it up, it's fantastic) pulling a utility trailer with all our camping gear. Many very steep inclines and grades. came within inches of hitting a moose... twice! And hunting season hasn't even started yet.

I don't want this post to sound whiny, but all of the available options can be better suited for different uses. That's why they are there.

/rant:off
dp
very well said!
.
08-09-2013 08:17 AM
Borkhart A Dealer in a town close to me (illinois) has a JKU MOAB sitting in the lot for right around 40k. only one of two around here I've ever seen.
08-09-2013 08:03 AM
dpostman Be Aware that some of us may have chosen a Jeep to go hunting & Fishing with. I have absolutely no intention of doing any rock climbing or serious wheeling. I live in eastern Canada and have lots of snowy conditions on main roads where lockers would be absolutely useless for everyday use. I chose a Sahara over Rubicon because I could get the LSD, which is much more practical for me in my situation, and I suspect for others as well. The jeep is a very nice vehicle and very adaptable fort many uses, but It feels like some people think that if you don't use your jeep for rock climbing, it is a wasted jeep. I've only had mine for 3 months and have about 4500 miles on it. Just came back from an 8 day trip on the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton NS (Look it up, it's fantastic) pulling a utility trailer with all our camping gear. Many very steep inclines and grades. came within inches of hitting a moose... twice! And hunting season hasn't even started yet.

I don't want this post to sound whiny, but all of the available options can be better suited for different uses. That's why they are there.

/rant:off
dp
08-08-2013 07:43 PM
suicideking
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
This is definitely an eye-opener. The brand/model that prides itself with being the best off road vehicle. I guess they should put an asterisk and say "only if you get a rubicon". Oh well, it is what it is.

Do you know what year the other models were still offering a rear locker?
You might still be able to find a Moab. They also have the AEV hood which is REALLY nice. They were '13 which is now out of production. I remember the 2012 MW3 wasn't too hard to find even after discontinued.

As mentioned, if you really want a lockers, get the Rubi. Otherwise you're looking at aftermarket to just lock the rear. Plus the Rubi has a locked front D44 diff and lower transfer case.

The Sport and Sahara have a D30 up front which is questionable with 35" wheels. More of a light wheeling rig. The Sahara is more of a mall crawler special...
08-08-2013 07:06 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
This is definitely an eye-opener. The brand/model that prides itself with being the best off road vehicle. I guess they should put an asterisk and say "only if you get a rubicon". Oh well, it is what it is.

Do you know what year the other models were still offering a rear locker?
Right now....just the Rubi
08-08-2013 07:00 PM
HillbillyJeeper
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
This is definitely an eye-opener. The brand/model that prides itself with being the best off road vehicle. I guess they should put an asterisk and say "only if you get a rubicon". Oh well, it is what it is.

Do you know what year the other models were still offering a rear locker?
Yep! Once you finally know jeep... you buy a rubicon.
08-08-2013 06:46 PM
The Green Monster This is definitely an eye-opener. The brand/model that prides itself with being the best off road vehicle. I guess they should put an asterisk and say "only if you get a rubicon". Oh well, it is what it is.

Do you know what year the other models were still offering a rear locker?
08-08-2013 04:52 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Monster View Post
Can you get a front LSD?
Factory? Nope....not available
08-08-2013 04:33 PM
The Green Monster Can you get a front LSD?
08-08-2013 03:37 PM
302
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
Anti-Spin Differential = Limited Slip Differential = Trac-Loc

Trac-Lok is the "Chrysler name".

Anti-spin is what Chrysler calls it on the order forms so people know what they are talking about....and don't confuse is with all of the other Chrysler names like Command Trac and Rock Track and Select-Trac, ect...

Limited Slip is actually what it is.
Well that sucks...
08-08-2013 03:34 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 View Post
So what is this option here:

Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle $ 295
Anti-Spin Differential = Limited Slip Differential = Trac-Loc

Trac-Lok is the "Chrysler name".

Anti-spin is what Chrysler calls it on the order forms so people know what they are talking about....and don't confuse is with all of the other Chrysler names like Command Trac and Rock Track and Select-Trac, ect...

Limited Slip is actually what it is.
08-08-2013 03:31 PM
302 So what is this option here:

Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle $ 295

?
08-08-2013 03:30 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLecter90210 View Post
What do you get with the LSD? How much benefit does it give you?
LSD = limited slip differential. Lots of threads and articles on it. What do you know about open differentials?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suicideking View Post
The Moab edition has a rear locker. Otherwise, you can add an Eaton e locker for around $1000.

Not sure if they're still selling the Moab...
It was an option on the Moab, and yup....the Moab special edition was 2013 only.
08-08-2013 03:27 PM
suicideking The Moab edition has a rear locker. Otherwise, you can add an Eaton e locker for around $1000.

Not sure if they're still selling the Moab...
08-08-2013 03:18 PM
DrLecter90210 What do you get with the LSD? How much benefit does it give you?
08-08-2013 03:18 PM
The Green Monster If this is true, than that is pretty sad. I am coming over from the FJ world, and about 75% of the FJs have rear lockers. LSD is ok, but it is far from being an equivalent to a locker.
08-08-2013 03:08 PM
panthermark Nope....not new ones. With early JK's, there was mare "ala carte" ordering. But now, only the Moab (based on the Sahara) had an optional rear locker.


Sports and Sahara has an option for LSD.
08-08-2013 03:02 PM
The Green Monster
Question: Do the Sahara or Sport models come with a rear locker?

I have a Rubicon, but a friend of mine is considering getting a sport or Sahara model. I just took it for granted that they have a rear locker. However I could not find this in print anywhere.

So does the Sahara or Sport model come with a rear locker, or as an option?

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