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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-29-2013 11:56 AM
Reznor I have a guy who tells me he has perfectly working 4.10's, but just the differentials and not the full axle. Is a differential swap easy enough to do? I imagine I'll need new axle and shaft seals.... anything else to consider?
08-23-2013 10:41 PM
99-BAMA-TJ I 2nd what C.L. is suggesting, I had the exact setup and I found some axles with 4.88's and got them for $200 ea. swapped them out and then sold mine for the exact same as I paid. I plan on going with 35's when my 33's are worn out so I'll just right then. Even with 4.88's it is way better than the 3.07 was. You should be able to find some with the 4:10's with just a little time spent on the search. Even if you didn't sell your old axles you would still be a lot cheaper than the re-gear. Which allows you to go but lots more stuff for the Jeep which is a real good thing !
08-21-2013 10:28 PM
JohnDoe Yeah I'm running 31 AT's and 3.07 gears too. I'm in Dallas and made a 30min drive on 75 to McKinney today. It was a struggle lol, 65-70mph TOPS. Kept switching between 5th and 4th trying to help the mpg's(2200rpms in 4th, 1900rpms in 5th). No power is an understatement hahah. I have 33's sitting in my garage and I'd shoot myself in the leg before driving on 75 with the bigger tires. After I purchase my metal cloak fenders, I'm regearing to 4.10's and throwing a Detroit the the rear. Got quoted at Collinsbrothers jeeps, guy said it would be around $2,200. Expensive, but a must in my opinion. That's just my .02cents
08-21-2013 10:07 PM
Reznor Thanks for the all the advice guys. Love the helpfulness on this forum.

Yes - I got a really good deal on the Jeep. There was a bunch of fairly minor things to fix up on it (a blown pcm was the biggest thing) but it's starting to get back to it's former glory...
08-21-2013 06:25 PM
Cons_Table
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsuggs View Post
The labor is high because the whole center housing has to be changed. Which means that the whole thing has to come out and go back in. Have you thought of asking what the labor price is if you pull them out and they just "bench build" them? That would probably save you at least 2 hours of labor per axle. Also depending on what brand of gears you want, you can get the TJ Motive Gear set from a few places for around $550. That includes the front and rear gears, bearings, shims, etc. Pretty much everything but the seals and oil. I have used that brand a few times, with no issues. A little noise, not bad.


Jeremy
He would have to remove the whole axle...not just the "center housing" (assuming you mean everything in the differential).

In my case, removing the axles was a good option (and cheaper) since the shop I used takes the axles somewhere else...they dont reagear them on the jeep. Some shops do regear on a jeep...so its not necessary to remove them.

In order to set up gears, he cant just take them the carrier, bearings, and ring gear and tell them to put it together and expect it to work. There is no way to measure anything...back lash, pinion depth, pinion preload,...etc...etc. In other words there isn't really a "bench build" for a typical jeep axle unless you take them the WHOLE axle.

If it were a Ford 9" or a Toyota third member...different story, but taking a shop the "guts" of an axle and asking them to put it together for you wont get you too far
08-21-2013 06:20 PM
wbrogdon At the price you paid for the jeep, even with a re-gear you still got a heck of a bargain on the jeep
08-21-2013 05:57 PM
jsuggs The labor is high because the whole center housing has to be changed. Which means that the whole thing has to come out and go back in. Have you thought of asking what the labor price is if you pull them out and they just "bench build" them? That would probably save you at least 2 hours of labor per axle. Also depending on what brand of gears you want, you can get the TJ Motive Gear set from a few places for around $550. That includes the front and rear gears, bearings, shims, etc. Pretty much everything but the seals and oil. I have used that brand a few times, with no issues. A little noise, not bad.


Jeremy
08-21-2013 05:45 PM
Water Dog It took the shop that did mine less than 8 hours to do both axles. I picked it up about 9 hours after I dropped it off. That would be $180/hour at those prices.
08-21-2013 05:27 PM
4Jeepn As stated the labor is 2x what it should be... Is this an offroad shop? Or just shop? go look in a junky yard for take offs...
08-21-2013 05:25 PM
Cons_Table
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznor View Post
Try 8 hours. Yeah, that's excessive? (Or is the nearly $100/hr what's killing it?)
Both...but more so the 8 hours per axle. If he was truly a gear guy, I would say maybe 8 hours for BOTH axles.

To put it in perspective, my buddies and I regeared a front HP44 with 5.38 gears, and a rear 9" with 5.43 gears in probably....10 hours in my garage over like 3 nights. This includes removing all of the old seals, cleaning all the grime off everything, and setting up the new stuff.

The guy that regeared my personal axles charged 200 an axle...but I am also the exception as the whole deal cost me 900.
08-21-2013 05:18 PM
Reznor Try 8 hours. Yeah, that's excessive? (Or is the nearly $100/hr what's killing it?)

I didn't know that 4 cylinders also came with 4.56's. Honestly, I'd be pretty thrilled just to find 4.10's. There was a guy selling a pair in Edmonton (about 3 hours away) for cheap I should have snagged them then. I just hadn't put on the lift and tires yet, and didn't realize how bad it was actually going to be.
08-21-2013 05:13 PM
NC Bear I was about to sa the same as Cons table. Sheesh, 7 hours... I think that is a bit much...
08-21-2013 05:07 PM
Cons_Table
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznor View Post
ok - so I guess this is normal. It's embarassing having the big rigs stuck behind me, when normally I'm the one who's upset in my other vehicle being stuck behind THEM.

Water Dog: You're right - prices of everything tend to be higher here in Canada. I was quoted the following to go to 4.56's:

Front, Gears: $250, Master Install Kit: $160, Carrier: $100, 2 Liters of oil: $15, Inner Axle seals: $80, 8 Hrs Labour: $720
Rear, Gears: $250, Master Install Kit: $150, Carrier: $100, 2 Liters of oil: $15, 8 Hrs Labour: $720 Outer Bearings and seal

This is from the most trusted place in town and I'm sure I could get it a bit cheaper if I went elsewhere, but probably not be a lot less.

And yes, I've been keeping an eye out for 4.10 axles. Though they might not be the "ideal" gearing to some, I'm sure they would make a dramatic difference over the 3.07's, and given the graphs I've seen regarding ratios, it should actually be *better* than the factory gear/tire setup. I don't really want to do all the suspension work *again* after just installing the lift, but I'm willing if I need to. Like you said, the price should be far closer to what I'm willing to pay.

And thanks for the info Elite. If yours performs ok offroad, I may just be ok with that. I didn't buy it to replace my 20g family crossover as my daily driver anyway. I just will have to realize I'm never taking it on highway trips or on the longer steeper roads here in Calgary. I think I'm ok with that, given the alternative of a regear.
Your parts seem a "little" higher in cost...but nothing too bad. Even down in the states I wouldnt be surprised to see those prices. What is killing you is what the shop is charging for labor!! $1440 for both axles!! I have heard of some high labor fees, but I think that is the highest.
08-21-2013 04:58 PM
Notoriously_rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by elite56 View Post
Some 4 cyl autos came with 4.56. They're pretty hard to find because it was an extra option between 2003-2006. But they are out there so be on the look out.
Did not know that...thank you!!!!
08-21-2013 04:57 PM
elite56 Some 4 cyl autos came with 4.56. They're pretty hard to find because it was an extra option between 2003-2006. But they are out there so be on the look out.
08-21-2013 04:53 PM
Reznor Calgary is about 3 hours from Montana. Not sure there are many good shops anywhere in that state, though.

I don't think I'll do the regear. It just doesn't make sense. If I do anything, I'll swap out the 4.10s from a 4 cylinder one day. I'll take this out on the trails and if it is adequate I may not even do anything at all because I'm really quite a thrifty kinda guy.
08-21-2013 04:45 PM
elite56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznor View Post
I assume they were not long hills? I can get over rolling hills ok, but once I ask my TJ to drive more than a minute or so on a hill, I've slowed down to embarassingly slow speeds.

Good thing the truck says "sport" on the side.
I'm sure they weren't quite as big as the hills you have up in Canada.
Just tell everyone you're slowing down to enjoy the scenery .
I'm not sure how far north you are in Canada but it may be cheaper to drive your jeep to the states and find a shop to do it there.
08-21-2013 04:38 PM
Reznor I assume they were not long hills? I can get over rolling hills ok, but once I ask my TJ to drive more than a minute or so on a hill, I've slowed down to embarassingly slow speeds.

Good thing the truck says "sport" on the side.

As for the sye, I don't think it's a major issue on mine. I only get vibes when going 60mph or so, which, given the performance of the jeep isn't often. I'm also only lifted 2.5", and can still put in a TC drop. (Which I'm considering, since I know vibes are bad. I just haven't determined if they are due to the lift or improperly balanced tires yet)
08-21-2013 04:29 PM
elite56 I did drive my jeep back from North Carolina for 6.5 hours through the hills with the 33s and 3.07s. It wasn't horrible but was a tad annoying on the steeper inclines.

Edit: The only reason I'm placing more emphasis on doing the SYE/CV shaft first is because I believe the issues it causes are more detrimental to the health of the jeep then the lower gears.
If it was not for that I would definitely be regearing very soon.
08-21-2013 04:09 PM
Reznor ok - so I guess this is normal. It's embarassing having the big rigs stuck behind me, when normally I'm the one who's upset in my other vehicle being stuck behind THEM.

Water Dog: You're right - prices of everything tend to be higher here in Canada. I was quoted the following to go to 4.56's:

Front, Gears: $250, Master Install Kit: $160, Carrier: $100, 2 Liters of oil: $15, Inner Axle seals: $80, 8 Hrs Labour: $720
Rear, Gears: $250, Master Install Kit: $150, Carrier: $100, 2 Liters of oil: $15, 8 Hrs Labour: $720 Outer Bearings and seal

This is from the most trusted place in town and I'm sure I could get it a bit cheaper if I went elsewhere, but probably not be a lot less.

And yes, I've been keeping an eye out for 4.10 axles. Though they might not be the "ideal" gearing to some, I'm sure they would make a dramatic difference over the 3.07's, and given the graphs I've seen regarding ratios, it should actually be *better* than the factory gear/tire setup. I don't really want to do all the suspension work *again* after just installing the lift, but I'm willing if I need to. Like you said, the price should be far closer to what I'm willing to pay.

And thanks for the info Elite. If yours performs ok offroad, I may just be ok with that. I didn't buy it to replace my 20g family crossover as my daily driver anyway. I just will have to realize I'm never taking it on highway trips or on the longer steeper roads here in Calgary. I think I'm ok with that, given the alternative of a regear.
08-21-2013 03:37 PM
western196611 I have the exact same set up in my YJ with an injected 6 cyl. And yep..... no power to pull in 5th. Can really tac it up in 4th and at 72 mph in 5th I'm tacking around 1600 rpms with my 33's. defiantly no pulling power.
08-21-2013 03:33 PM
Water Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznor View Post
a regear would set me back at least $2000-$2500.
Don't know where you're getting prices (maybe it's just Canada), but I had my 3.07's regeared about a year and a half ago in both difs. $1500 parts and labor. (at a highly recommended diferential shop). Best $1500 I ever spent.
08-21-2013 03:21 PM
GoldenSahara00 I found my d30 4.10s for 175 and a d35 should be cheaper. Or you could swap in a d44 with 4.10s. It will take a while to find them but be much cheaper. I don't think you'll like 3.07s with the 5 spd.
08-21-2013 03:20 PM
C.L. You could always try to find junkyard 4cyl axles. They all came stock with 4.10 gears, and can handle 33's on open diffs no problem. The rear D35 is questionable if locked and in the hands of a throttle jockey. I've seen take-off axles go for ~$250 a piece; much cheaper than a re-gear, and you can sell your current axles (people with bent housings won't care about the ratio) to recoup some of that.
08-21-2013 02:58 PM
MFsoftball22 Your subject line summed it up but instead of a dash you were suppose to put an equal sign. LIKE THIS

No power = 3.07 gears

But also remember. because your gears are inadiquate you are making other components work harder to make up where they lack. A lot harder on your clutch in particular.
08-21-2013 02:57 PM
elite56 Your issue with going up hills sounds about right. I'm currently running 33s and 3.07 for the same reason as you, money.
It's really not that big of a deal for me since I live in Florida and have a manual. The only hills I go over is the occasional bridge. When I'm going up a very big bridge I usually get it up to about 80 before I hit the incline, downshift to 4th, and then usually by the time I hit the end of the incline I'll be going around 60.
As for trails, 4H and 4L both work well. Only time I ever go to 4L is for deep sand. For mud and dirt 4H almost always works.
Of course this is not the ideal set up and it does lug the engine occasionally. As of right now it's second on my to do list (first is SYE/CV shaft). If you plan on using your jeep for a long time and you have the money/means to regear you definitely need to do it.
08-21-2013 02:50 PM
Notoriously_rob U summed it up- 3.07 s stink! I have on my 31s and its terrible!!! Im trying to find a better rearend vice just regearing.
08-21-2013 02:46 PM
Reznor
No power - 3.07 gears?

I know this has been beaten to death, and I apologize in advance... but I have found it hard to find Google info on exactly how bad 33's and 3.07's are with a 5spd.

I'm really trying to avoid a regear. I bought my 2003 TJ for $2400 as a cheap offroad toy, and a regear would set me back at least $2000-$2500. Hard to justify spending the same amount on a regear as I paid for the Jeep in the first place.

I know 3.07's are generally considered inadequate for 33's. I'm not concerned about having lots of power - I resigned myself that. But going up even moderate hills, I found I can't get above 40mph. Even 4th gear is useless, and even in 3rd I just can't get going faster with the pedal floored.

For those who have struggled with this combination - does this seem about right, or does it sound like my engine isn't outputting the expected horsepower? If I am struggling this much up hills, how can I expect it to perform on the trails? I imagine in 4 low I should be ok even with the lack of power, no?

Now, my engine has a bit of a miss and is slightly rough at idle. No CEL yet. But it still runs ok, and gets the Jeep around somewhat decently on flat terrain or *slight* hills. I'm going to try various things to locate the miss and perhaps that might help, but given the relatively slight nature of the miss I can't imagine it's sucking so much power out of the engine that it should cause such a dramatic loss.

If this is simply the way it is going to be without a regear, then I just won't use it as my daily driver. But if it means I will also have difficulty offroading it, then I either must regear or sell it for something else.

Thoughts?

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