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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-20-2013 02:40 PM
phillyclaude for what it's worth, I just asked a Philly cop who is pretty responsive via twitter. Grey area indeed!

His response:
PPD Joe Murray
02-20-2013 01:58 AM
muddyjeepgirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trib View Post
I'm not sure if I replied to this thread as yet. Here's my take, and I'm sitting in a black and white as I type this, take it how you will. This is a particular tickle that rookies get when they get the inspection manual course. I have had my Jeep inspected without the doors. IF they are present, they must latch and open from the inside. My argument with the rookies is this: can I take my top off? Yes, it's designed to do that, is their answer. Well then, my doors are ALSO designed to do come off. Sure you can take a blow torch to your Chevy and drop your doors, but then we know you're pushing it.

It's gonna depend on the cop (and the size of the stick in his arse) when it comes to this. Some judges don't like these kind of tickets because they aren't familiar with inspection, and just push them through. This is a word of mouth thing with cops usually, but fear not, I am educating these goofballs one badge at a time
You live in lebanon, as do I. Which jurisdiction do you work for if you don't mind me asking, and do you know of any particular jurisdictions that will get you? I drove all summer without doors, and never had a problem...
04-27-2012 01:29 PM
CaptainV45 Also wanted to mention that I live on the same street as my township police station. I am almost guaranteed to have an officer next to me at the light at either end of the road. None of them ever said anything about my lack of doors, even when I was using a cracked bicycle mirror as my rear view.
04-27-2012 01:24 PM
CaptainV45 I have a friend who is a Sergeant in the Virginia State Police. I asked him this question on facebook yesterday:
Hey Chris.

Yesterday Vince
Hi Chris! What is your opinion on Jeep wranglers (and CJ's) being driven without doors? From my understanding it is a removable part of the vehicle, like the soft top. Would you ticket someone who is driving their Jeep safely and with outside rear-view mirrors attached but no doors?

4 hours ago Chris
no i wouldn't ticket anyone doing that; however, keep i mind that by doing that you may significantly reduce your saftey in the event of a side impact

Now, I know he is on the VaSP, I didn't go to high school with any PA police.
04-22-2012 05:00 PM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBFLx
I've had my TJ in PA for a year now not as my DD. Over the summer it stays in the garage overnight with the doors and top off. Rarely do I leave the doors on unless for some reason I take it to work overnight. I don't have mirror relocation brackets or anything special. Driving it all over the place I have never been pulled over for not having doors or mirrors. (knock on wood) That being said I never drive like an idiot or crazy. I think if you are driving reasonably you will rarely have an issue. If you get that one officer who's out to pull someone over just be respectful and explain the situation. A lot of my friends are law enforcement and most of them will tell you unless you're being a complete moron and you're respectful when they pull you over you will not have any issues, and most likely not even a ticket. Also on a side note I know my tires stick out at least 1.5'' past my flares and wasn't an issue during inspection.
Well my tires were out an 1" and I got a ticket for that and I wasn't being a moron. I was sitting at a light and the cop went past slow and turned around then followed me and pulled me over. And further more on the way to the jeep show last year atleast five people got a ticket just for not having doors on. You don't have to be doing anything stupid its more on the fact of how well the cop knows the laws. Cuz from what I was told by the judge in pa you have to have your doors on and tires can't stick out.
04-22-2012 03:15 PM
jloffio So it seems like PA is cool with no doors, depending on local PDs, but what about NJ? I go back there pretty often and want to take the doors off this summer.
04-22-2012 02:47 PM
JBFLx
My 2cents...

I've had my TJ in PA for a year now not as my DD. Over the summer it stays in the garage overnight with the doors and top off. Rarely do I leave the doors on unless for some reason I take it to work overnight. I don't have mirror relocation brackets or anything special. Driving it all over the place I have never been pulled over for not having doors or mirrors. (knock on wood) That being said I never drive like an idiot or crazy. I think if you are driving reasonably you will rarely have an issue. If you get that one officer who's out to pull someone over just be respectful and explain the situation. A lot of my friends are law enforcement and most of them will tell you unless you're being a complete moron and you're respectful when they pull you over you will not have any issues, and most likely not even a ticket. Also on a side note I know my tires stick out at least 1.5'' past my flares and wasn't an issue during inspection.
04-20-2012 11:36 PM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervboy
This is all a bunch of S*@T. The doors are removeable. Take them off if you want or don't. Are any of you out there going to not take your doors off because you are afraid of getting ticketed? If you get stopped and get a ticket, fight it. This is my second Wrangler and I have ridden with the doors off most if not all of every summer I have had one and never even been looked at funny by a cop.
The cops around here are pricks. And a few will ticket you. And fighting it will do no good cuz the local district magistrate even told me its illegal to ride on the road with your doors off
04-20-2012 04:27 PM
Jervboy This is all a bunch of S*@T. The doors are removeable. Take them off if you want or don't. Are any of you out there going to not take your doors off because you are afraid of getting ticketed? If you get stopped and get a ticket, fight it. This is my second Wrangler and I have ridden with the doors off most if not all of every summer I have had one and never even been looked at funny by a cop.
11-05-2011 05:41 PM
Rootj Maybe the cops that ticket doorless Wrangs are suffering Jeep envy.
07-23-2011 01:53 PM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by FortCJ
Yeah most places will tell you you have to have them due to them being a grey area. If you know someone they can overlook it and not get in trouble for it, but like i said it falls under the If it came with them put them back on for inspection. There are a million and one things that fall in the grey are for inspections. But as far as driving without them, most cops wont say anything unless a) new cop trying to make a name for himself which i see everyday. B) you are being stupid and the cop then looks for reasons to extend the length of the ticket. Ive seen both happen and have had both happen to me.
To the member who is a COP, good work and thank you for keeping us all safe. but ive seen to many crooked cops so to me there is a big difference between a cop and a pig. a cop does his job and a pig has the "I have a do whatever i want and get away with it badge" and i hate that. My father was a state constable before he passed away so i was raised to have the upmost respect for law enforcement but there are alot of cops who are just D!CKS
Yea and there is a cop around here that is a stickler for the inspection laws so I just keep my doors on and play it safe
07-23-2011 10:32 AM
FortCJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck07 View Post
I understand what you are sayin but I was told if they are needed for inspection you gotta keep them on at all times. And all the inspection stations say that they are needed that I talk to cuz of it being a gray line
Yeah most places will tell you you have to have them due to them being a grey area. If you know someone they can overlook it and not get in trouble for it, but like i said it falls under the If it came with them put them back on for inspection. There are a million and one things that fall in the grey are for inspections. But as far as driving without them, most cops wont say anything unless a) new cop trying to make a name for himself which i see everyday. B) you are being stupid and the cop then looks for reasons to extend the length of the ticket. Ive seen both happen and have had both happen to me.
To the member who is a COP, good work and thank you for keeping us all safe. but ive seen to many crooked cops so to me there is a big difference between a cop and a pig. a cop does his job and a pig has the "I have a do whatever i want and get away with it badge" and i hate that. My father was a state constable before he passed away so i was raised to have the upmost respect for law enforcement but there are alot of cops who are just D!CKS
07-23-2011 10:03 AM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by FortCJ
(b) OTHER VIOLATIONS.-It is unlawful for any person to do any of the following:

(1) Willfully or intentionally remove (other than for purposes of repair and replacement) or render inoperative, in whole or in part, any item of vehicle equipment which was required to be installed at the time of manufacture or thereafter upon any vehicle, by any law, rule, regulation or requirement of any officer or agency of the United States or of the Commonwealth, if it is intended that the vehicle be operated upon the highways of this Commonwealth unless the removal or alteration is specifically permitted by this title or by regulations promulgated by the department.

I spoke with my friend who is a state trooper. basicly what this translates to is this, If the vehicle is manufactured to have removable doors,top ect... Than you are excluded from the above. Doors are technicaly an option for wranglers.

I saw earlier that a cop told a member if he cant take the doors of his cruiser than he can not remove the doors from his wrangler. This cop was wrong. A crown vic,dodge charger,ect that police use are federal crash test saftey rated with crash bars in the doors. wrangler from my understanding do not have any saftey devices inside the door. Also, If a door is bolted from the inside of a vehicle, it considered a modification to remove the door and by doing so you remove a mojor saftey feature and is some vehicles the actual structure from the vehicle,where as in a wrangler, the vehicle is designed to have removable doors, so was in part designed to have added structure other places so that the doors do not have any structural signifigance to the vehicle.

As far as PA state inspection goes, and yes i do have my PA state inspection license, rule of thumb is if the vehicle came with it it must have it.
Can you get an inspection without your top on? Yes. A wrangler is actually technicaly considered as a convertable. If a 06 Mustang GT came in with its top down for inspection you could pass it.
Can you get an inspection without your doors? This is technicaly a "grey" area in the book. Again rule of thumb from above. If you know the mechanic you could most likely get away with it. If it were me, If i had to do an inspection on a wrangler that came in topless and doorless, I would pass it due to the fact i know that the doors and tops are considered a factory applied option.
What about if i dont have my mirrors? No. Pa state inspection laws require a working rearview mirror and the driver side mirror. A passenger mirror is not required but if it is there, it must work properly and be free of cracks.

I am friends with many poloice offers and higher ups. I am a mechanic as stated above and i work for a former Chrysler Jeep dodge dealer. As far as i am aware all my information is correct. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong but do not "bash me" as i am only trying to help here and excuse my spelling. Its early and im at work lol. I do own the inspection manual and the PA Crimes Code and equipment manuals. If anyone has question feel free to PM me and i woil help you the best i can.
I understand what you are sayin but I was told if they are needed for inspection you gotta keep them on at all times. And all the inspection stations say that they are needed that I talk to cuz of it being a gray line
07-23-2011 09:39 AM
FortCJ (b) OTHER VIOLATIONS.-It is unlawful for any person to do any of the following:

(1) Willfully or intentionally remove (other than for purposes of repair and replacement) or render inoperative, in whole or in part, any item of vehicle equipment which was required to be installed at the time of manufacture or thereafter upon any vehicle, by any law, rule, regulation or requirement of any officer or agency of the United States or of the Commonwealth, if it is intended that the vehicle be operated upon the highways of this Commonwealth unless the removal or alteration is specifically permitted by this title or by regulations promulgated by the department.

I spoke with my friend who is a state trooper. basicly what this translates to is this, If the vehicle is manufactured to have removable doors,top ect... Than you are excluded from the above. Doors are technicaly an option for wranglers.

I saw earlier that a cop told a member if he cant take the doors of his cruiser than he can not remove the doors from his wrangler. This cop was wrong. A crown vic,dodge charger,ect that police use are federal crash test saftey rated with crash bars in the doors. wrangler from my understanding do not have any saftey devices inside the door. Also, If a door is bolted from the inside of a vehicle, it considered a modification to remove the door and by doing so you remove a mojor saftey feature and is some vehicles the actual structure from the vehicle,where as in a wrangler, the vehicle is designed to have removable doors, so was in part designed to have added structure other places so that the doors do not have any structural signifigance to the vehicle.

As far as PA state inspection goes, and yes i do have my PA state inspection license, rule of thumb is if the vehicle came with it it must have it.
Can you get an inspection without your top on? Yes. A wrangler is actually technicaly considered as a convertable. If a 06 Mustang GT came in with its top down for inspection you could pass it.
Can you get an inspection without your doors? This is technicaly a "grey" area in the book. Again rule of thumb from above. If you know the mechanic you could most likely get away with it. If it were me, If i had to do an inspection on a wrangler that came in topless and doorless, I would pass it due to the fact i know that the doors and tops are considered a factory applied option.
What about if i dont have my mirrors? No. Pa state inspection laws require a working rearview mirror and the driver side mirror. A passenger mirror is not required but if it is there, it must work properly and be free of cracks.

I am friends with many poloice offers and higher ups. I am a mechanic as stated above and i work for a former Chrysler Jeep dodge dealer. As far as i am aware all my information is correct. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong but do not "bash me" as i am only trying to help here and excuse my spelling. Its early and im at work lol. I do own the inspection manual and the PA Crimes Code and equipment manuals. If anyone has question feel free to PM me and i woil help you the best i can.
07-16-2011 08:56 PM
mixedup4x4 just rolled by 4 different cops (1 state, 2 county, 1 city)...and all i got was a wave from all of them
07-14-2011 08:43 PM
JonsBlue90 In PA, you don't need mirrors on the outside of the vehicle. Period. Just the rear view mirror on the windshield is fine.

"
Originally Posted by pacode.com
§ 175.68. Mirrors.

(a) Condition of mirrors. Mirrors shall be in safe operating condition as described in § 175.80 (relating to inspection procedure).

(b) Rearview mirrors. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with at least one rearview mirror or similar device which provides the driver an unobstructed view of the highway to the rear of the vehicle for a distance of not less than 200 feet. A mirror may not be cracked, broken or discolored.

(c) Obstructions. On a vehicle specified under this subchapter, a rearview mirror shall be free from obstructions as described in § 175.80.

(1) A vehicle specified under this subchapter having a sign, load or material which obstructs, obscures or impairs the driver’s clear view of the highway or an intersecting highway shall have two outside rearview mirrors, one on the driver’s side and one on the passenger’s side, each with a minimum reflective surface of 19.5 square inches.

(2) Rear window louvers are permitted only if the vehicle has at least two outside rearview mirrors, one on the driver’s side and one on the passenger’s side, each with minimum reflective surfaces of 19.5 square inches.

(3) Rearview mirrors, each with a minimum reflective surface of 19.5 square inches, shall be installed on both sides of a vehicle for which a certificate of exemption for a sun screening device or other material has been issued. A vehicle for which a certificate of exemption has been issued for medical reasons may be equipped with only a left outside rearview mirror, unless the vehicle was originally equipped with an outside rearview mirror on both sides of the vehicle.

(4) No object or material may be hung from the rearview mirror and no object or material may be hung, placed or attached in a position so as to materially obstruct, obscure or impair the driver’s vision through the windshield or constitute a safety hazard.

(5) This subsection also applies to glass etchings, except those used for vehicle identification.

(d) Motor homes. A motor home shall be free from obstructions as described in this subchapter.

(1) A vehicle manufactured as or permanently converted into a motor home with a GVW of 11,000 pounds or less may have windows—approved glass only—transparent screens and roll-up shades or curtains installed if the shades and curtains are securely fastened in the completely opened position to avoid covering a portion of window while the vehicle is being operated on the highway. Venetian blinds may not cover a window while the vehicle is operated on the highway.

(2) If a window is covered for installation of a wardrobe, cupboard or other convenience, it shall be factory installed or otherwise permanently installed—optional equipment or facsimile only. Two outside mirrors shall be installed to afford the operator a clear view 200 feet to the rear of the vehicle.

Authority

The provisions of this § 175.68 amended under the Vehicle Code, 75 Pa.C.S. § § 4103, 4521, 4524 and 6103.

Source

The provisions of this § 175.68 adopted October 29, 1982, effective February 1, 1983, 12 Pa.B. 3862; corrected November 12, 1982, effective February 1, 1983, 12 Pa.B. 3947; readopted December 2, 1988, effective December 3, 1988, 18 Pa.B. 5362; amended September 27, 1996, effective September 28, 1996, 26 Pa.B. 4640. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (132870) to (132871).

Cross References

This section cited in 67 Pa. Code § 175.80 (relating to inspection procedure)."
07-12-2011 04:08 PM
SCOOPYS-YJ has any one actually gotten a ticket.
same day I got my warning , actually about 1 hr before hand I passed the local cop, and waved.
then 10 miles down the road a state cop stops me.
07-12-2011 12:40 PM
anc324 i got a warning for no doors and no mirrors and he told me its illegal to drive with no doors
07-11-2011 08:36 PM
kmafarm We love you Trib!! Keep spreading the word my friend!! We have some pretty petty ones down this way, but hopefully they'll just drive on by me and not pay attention ;-)
07-11-2011 07:55 PM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedup4x4
I live 1 block away from a Magistrate and have been told by it's employees who are also Jeepers that as long as I have a Driver's mirror and my center rear-view that I'm good to go....been topless since I bought it
I think alot is where you live and the cops cuz it seems everyone hears different things
07-11-2011 07:18 PM
mixedup4x4 I live 1 block away from a Magistrate and have been told by it's employees who are also Jeepers that as long as I have a Driver's mirror and my center rear-view that I'm good to go....been topless since I bought it
07-11-2011 02:10 AM
Bulldawg As long as you have your rear view mirror you should be fine.
07-11-2011 01:56 AM
Trib I'm not sure if I replied to this thread as yet. Here's my take, and I'm sitting in a black and white as I type this, take it how you will. This is a particular tickle that rookies get when they get the inspection manual course. I have had my Jeep inspected without the doors. IF they are present, they must latch and open from the inside. My argument with the rookies is this: can I take my top off? Yes, it's designed to do that, is their answer. Well then, my doors are ALSO designed to do come off. Sure you can take a blow torch to your Chevy and drop your doors, but then we know you're pushing it.

It's gonna depend on the cop (and the size of the stick in his arse) when it comes to this. Some judges don't like these kind of tickets because they aren't familiar with inspection, and just push them through. This is a word of mouth thing with cops usually, but fear not, I am educating these goofballs one badge at a time
07-10-2011 02:29 PM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmafarm
Hey Red, that's what I could find too. Nothing in the vehicle code book at all regarding doors, but there is that from the inspection codes. So, it's still a gray area as far as ticketing is concerned. I'm guessing that it's a chance we can take because there is nothing actually written in stone about it. When my doors come off, I'm hoping for nice officers in this area.
Yea. I fought a ticket I got and I questioned the judge while I was there and he said its illegal. He had to call around and ask because someone fought a ticket for not having doors and he wasnt sure but he said its illegal and the person lost. That's how he said he knew
07-10-2011 09:33 AM
kmafarm Hey Red, that's what I could find too. Nothing in the vehicle code book at all regarding doors, but there is that from the inspection codes. So, it's still a gray area as far as ticketing is concerned. I'm guessing that it's a chance we can take because there is nothing actually written in stone about it. When my doors come off, I'm hoping for nice officers in this area.
07-09-2011 09:34 PM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmafarm
I don't think the police actually know all of the rules. The wranglers are exempt from the federal sideimpact laws. I got a ticket for using the middle lane as a merge lane, over $140 ticket, so I looked it up, took it to court and won. The cop was pssed, but it was right there in the driver's handbook so....

Still trying to research further now about the doors. Seems like it's legal, so long as you have mirrors, but it may be another court issue if the police don't have all the facts. I'll keep on reading!
The thing is that they are required for inspection so they say if they are needed for inspection that they need to be on while driving on the road also. I checked with the police, and inspection station, and even talked to the jeep dealer and they all said that its illegal to drive without them.
07-09-2011 08:17 AM
kmafarm I don't think the police actually know all of the rules. The wranglers are exempt from the federal sideimpact laws. I got a ticket for using the middle lane as a merge lane, over $140 ticket, so I looked it up, took it to court and won. The cop was pssed, but it was right there in the driver's handbook so....

Still trying to research further now about the doors. Seems like it's legal, so long as you have mirrors, but it may be another court issue if the police don't have all the facts. I'll keep on reading!
07-08-2011 10:26 AM
SCOOPYS-YJ Got a written warning from a state trooper saying I need doors.
07-08-2011 12:48 AM
Redneck07
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmafarm
I'm in PA and it's legal on the wrangler so long as you have the outside mirrors...that's what I was told by johnny law! I've got the top off, just waiting to buy the mirrors and off come the doors!!!
I talked to the police and they told me its illegal
07-07-2011 07:45 PM
kmafarm I'm in PA and it's legal on the wrangler so long as you have the outside mirrors...that's what I was told by johnny law! I've got the top off, just waiting to buy the mirrors and off come the doors!!!
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