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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-19-2013 12:40 AM
Teague242
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKjingle View Post
Come to Canada man it's not like that here I wheel almost anywhere, I wheel from one part of town to the other, never got in trouble people don't even pay attention. I'm sure if I went and started tearing land up littering and acting like an ass I would get in trouble. People park there trucks and trailer loaded up with dirt bikes right beside an asphalt company's gravel pit offload and go have fun for the day and cops drive by the trucks all day. Not a word is said. If the asphalt company complained I'm sure they would do something but they don't seem to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by COStrider View Post
That's how it used to be when I was young 20 years ago. Now the lawyers and those who sued the landowners cause they got hurt F'd it up for us all.
Exactly. That's how it was.

Nowadays everything is all political and everyone worries about getting sued

I grew up in a place where you could ride a bike one someone's backyard and not get yelled or shot at. Nowadays everyone litters and generally doesn't give a crap about the land they spend their time on....
09-19-2013 12:06 AM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKjingle View Post

Come to Canada man it's not like that here I wheel almost anywhere, I wheel from one part of town to the other, never got in trouble people don't even pay attention. I'm sure if I went and started tearing land up littering and acting like an ass I would get in trouble. People park there trucks and trailer loaded up with dirt bikes right beside an asphalt company's gravel pit offload and go have fun for the day and cops drive by the trucks all day. Not a word is said. If the asphalt company complained I'm sure they would do something but they don't seem to mind.
That's how it used to be when I was young 20 years ago. Now the lawyers and those who sued the landowners cause they got hurt F'd it up for us all.
09-18-2013 11:50 PM
JKjingle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teague242 View Post

Its the trespassers responsibility to know where he's at, but if he falls and gets hurt on your property he can sue you. So basically your inviting him to come on in and welcome him to your hard earned money.

The law should be: put signs up. And if some idiot comes on your property, either shoot him or have him arrested. If he gets hurt its his own fault an trespassing charges will be pressed against him.

If it comes to the point where I have to research the hell out of the land that I want to go on before I go for a walk or ride on it... I'm leaving this country....
Come to Canada man it's not like that here I wheel almost anywhere, I wheel from one part of town to the other, never got in trouble people don't even pay attention. I'm sure if I went and started tearing land up littering and acting like an ass I would get in trouble. People park there trucks and trailer loaded up with dirt bikes right beside an asphalt company's gravel pit offload and go have fun for the day and cops drive by the trucks all day. Not a word is said. If the asphalt company complained I'm sure they would do something but they don't seem to mind.
09-18-2013 11:12 PM
jakbak just tell them you mixed up your weekends and when they were opening the gamelands for 4x4s. check out this article that was posted in the PA local forums

PA Game Commission to Hold State Game Land Tours For Public - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports
09-18-2013 11:03 PM
ohioviper Signs Signs, Everywhere a Sign - YouTube
09-18-2013 10:08 PM
COStrider Once I was in Arizona heading to a hike and my gps was wrong and told me to head down a power line to get to the hike. I figured that maybe this was one of the ways in. I slowed down came to a stop. Checked my phone and the nav to see if that seemed right. I admit looking back that I should have known it was not good than to put too much trust in technology when you are disoriented and frustrated trying to get somewhere.

So there's this little gate opening with a huge sign with an ATV with the circle with the diagonal line slash through it stating no atv's. I start to roll forward slowly and then see a tiny white sign saying no offroad travel a third of the size of a license plate!

I back out and a LEO was there from outta nowhere. He was saying how I crossed the line with part of my jeep and he could ticket me if he wanted. I said- wait you saw me pull in, roll up, read the sign and back out, and you'd still consider giving me a ticket for making the right call? He said yes. I explained the situation and said I was following GPS directions and offered to show him the phone. He declined and said I was lying. So I've got an out of state plate, had a route on a phone that was incorrect, and offered to prove I wasn't looking for trouble only a trail to hike on. He then said I know you would have gone forward if I wasn't here. I said I didn't see you at all and was only following a route I thought was correct. He said I got lucky and drive away.

I didn't get ticketed but it was crazy that he was so adamant I was in the wrong and wouldn't even look at the route clearly shown on my phone.

Sometimes LEO'S just don't give a damn and have you pegged as a trespasser not matter what. It's too bad because they probably have had plenty of wheelers go in there intentionally knowing not to and that counts against those of us who are trying our best to stay legal
09-18-2013 06:41 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Im on the OPs side here.

Sometimes theres a fine line between "road" and "not road". Not all roads have signs

Ever drive down a dirt road and end up finding out it's someones driveway? I dont know what OP's trail looks like, but some of these look like legit roads. Some are obviously not. On the other hand, we have legit roads around here that i wouldnt dare touch with a car. Signed and everything.

Every powerline trail here is private property. Literally going through someones yard. I won't touch that. Most dont even have an actual trail, but they have gates in the fences for the right of ways...power companies dont use em a whole lot.

But STATE PROPERTY? Who OWNS THE STATE? The people do. If you're not tearing stuff up, if you're staying on the established trail, if you're not litering, if you're not tearing up environmentally sensitive areas, if you're not spinning your tires in mud holes making them bigger, whats the problem?
I'm with you from the pic he posted (the one with rocks blocking the path which he said were not there) that sure as hell looks like a road to me, coupled with it being state land (public) as well as no signs, I'd say the ticket is bogus.
09-18-2013 06:21 PM
michiganadam Im on the OPs side here.

Sometimes theres a fine line between "road" and "not road". Not all roads have signs

Ever drive down a dirt road and end up finding out it's someones driveway? I dont know what OP's trail looks like, but some of these look like legit roads. Some are obviously not. On the other hand, we have legit roads around here that i wouldnt dare touch with a car. Signed and everything.

Every powerline trail here is private property. Literally going through someones yard. I won't touch that. Most dont even have an actual trail, but they have gates in the fences for the right of ways...power companies dont use em a whole lot.

But STATE PROPERTY? Who OWNS THE STATE? The people do. If you're not tearing stuff up, if you're staying on the established trail, if you're not litering, if you're not tearing up environmentally sensitive areas, if you're not spinning your tires in mud holes making them bigger, whats the problem?
09-18-2013 05:15 PM
jadmt I am glad I don't live in NYC the west is the only place to be.
Intruder shot by homeowner faces charges | Local News - Home

Here the right person gets charged if they live to face trial.
09-18-2013 09:11 AM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornfedksboy View Post
In Kansas, I wouldn't DARE go off road in an area I don't have permission. Land is owned by private citizens. It has cows, crops, or is used for hunting. Wheelin is generally bad for cows, crops and prey. If you want cows, crops, hunting or wheelin buy your own damn land or buddy up with someone that has it. DO NOT go onto some one else's land and expect them to be cool with it.

In the case of the OP he was on public land. If it is for public use, I would expect a rules posting somewhere. If there isn't a rules posting, then why in the heck is the land public? What is it being used for? Why does the government need it?
I have been in Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado, etc etc. Private land is usually easy to spot, as it has at the very least, a wire fence to keep the cattle in. States like Vermont are a PITA because public property sometimes crosses over private property (private property owners have an easement.) Some of the trails in Colorado actually cross private property (hence why they ask you be respectful and not speed or blast music) but again, those are usually marked.
09-18-2013 09:08 AM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by tab22092 View Post
Thats actually false. Multiple states have laws regarding lethal force and threats to property. There are also instances where deadly force may be warranted based on the level of crime such. 1st degree burglary for example.

Edit: Disclaimer! i am in no way an expert on the law i was just recalling some of my criminal justice class conversations and penal law reviews. Please seek expert advice if you wish to know the ins and outs of defending yourself in any way.
Some states allow deadly force in defense of property but again, you have to make sure that a jury would reasonably believe that your property was indeed under threat. This is why a lot of people on the south border end up in jail because they shoot migrants crossing through their ranches. A guy Jeepin around and accidentally ending up on your property will NEVER EVER be bought by any jury as a threat, in any state.
09-18-2013 09:00 AM
Kevlars
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornfedksboy View Post
In Kansas, I wouldn't DARE go off road in an area I don't have permission. Land is owned by private citizens. It has cows, crops, or is used for hunting. Wheelin is generally bad for cows, crops and prey. If you want cows, crops, hunting or wheelin buy your own damn land or buddy up with someone that has it. DO NOT go onto some one else's land and expect them to be cool with it.

In the case of the OP he was on public land. If it is for public use, I would expect a rules posting somewhere. If there isn't a rules posting, then why in the heck is the land public? What is it being used for? Why does the government need it?
Ok I know I will be flamed so here it goes. We live in a law positive society unlike Europe. Meaning that everything is legal unless there is a law or statute that deems it not legal. For instance if you don't see a sign that say no u turn u can make a u turn. In Europe the signs says what you can do. Too many times the authorities use Jedi mind tricks like " you should go do this elsewhere". What they did not say is that it is illegal to do it here. We are the public therefore it is our land. If the park ranger or other authorized body knows some reason why a road is closed it needs to be posted, period. Or it needs to have a sign that points you to where to get the information. The weak ass excuse of "we'll we had some issues of people littering" tells me the trail is open but they have had issues and are too lazy to go do their job.

If it were me I would fight it and then get a local jeep club to continue the fight and DEMAND a list of open an closed trails from that department. Go to the supervisor and ask for a list or where to get it and then ask who decides what trail is open or closed and for what purpose, when does this body meet and is it open to the public. As soon as he hears these questions you will see some back peddling. A lot of times the supervisor will close a trail but really not have the authority to do so.

If it were not for people fighting to keep the public trails open, the rubicon trail would have been closed years ago.

Just my 2 cents
09-17-2013 10:04 PM
cornfedksboy In Kansas, I wouldn't DARE go off road in an area I don't have permission. Land is owned by private citizens. It has cows, crops, or is used for hunting. Wheelin is generally bad for cows, crops and prey. If you want cows, crops, hunting or wheelin buy your own damn land or buddy up with someone that has it. DO NOT go onto some one else's land and expect them to be cool with it.

In the case of the OP he was on public land. If it is for public use, I would expect a rules posting somewhere. If there isn't a rules posting, then why in the heck is the land public? What is it being used for? Why does the government need it?
09-17-2013 09:25 PM
tab22092
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post

In no state is it legal to shoot someone unless there is a threat of grave bodily harm. You can claim that you were in fear but no jury would buy it and you'll spend the rest of your life in a cell.
Thats actually false. Multiple states have laws regarding lethal force and threats to property. There are also instances where deadly force may be warranted based on the level of crime such. 1st degree burglary for example.

Edit: Disclaimer! i am in no way an expert on the law i was just recalling some of my criminal justice class conversations and penal law reviews. Please seek expert advice if you wish to know the ins and outs of defending yourself in any way.
09-17-2013 09:02 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKASS View Post
Anyone that shoots at me for driving into their unmarked, unfenced land, better hope they're a better shot than I am. I don't mean to encourage trespassers, but implying that they should justly be put in danger over it is stupid.
In no state is it legal to shoot someone unless there is a threat of grave bodily harm. You can claim that you were in fear but no jury would buy it and you'll spend the rest of your life in a cell.
09-17-2013 08:51 PM
m998dna 40 years later and there still aren't any "no trespassing" signs posted at each road crossing along the railroad right-of-way where I got busted for trespassing. But I guarantee.. that if I bought another bike and rode along the railroad tracks every day, I would get busted again.

I guess it's up to you if want to pick a fight with the law.. I personally didn't like having a .45 semi-auto pointed at my head.

Like I said earlier, my argument to the judge saying there were no signs posted didn't help me dodge a misdemeanor charge.

.
09-17-2013 08:51 PM
JKASS Anyone that shoots at me for driving into their unmarked, unfenced land, better hope they're a better shot than I am. I don't mean to encourage trespassers, but implying that they should justly be put in danger over it is stupid.
09-17-2013 08:31 PM
lysol You guys gave me an idea for a TV show... "Property Wars!!!"
09-17-2013 08:27 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcd View Post

If a burglar robbed your house, got caught and said " you didn't have a don't rob me sign" how would you like that?
Private property vs public property. BIG difference. Trespassing on private property is implied but on public it must be labeled as such.
09-17-2013 08:17 PM
JEEPDON Moderators need to close this thread
09-17-2013 07:53 PM
Teague242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcd View Post

If a burglar robbed your house, got caught and said " you didn't have a don't rob me sign" how would you like that?
no man in the world is going to say something like that.

Walls are built to keep people out. Common sense dictates to not go beyond those walls unless you want to get shot. If my property was fenced off... It's obvious your tresspassing when you go beyond that fence right?

But if I'm driving down the side of the road, need to take a crap, and walk into the woods 100 meters to do so.... No signs anywhere remember... Then I can be shot or fined for trespassing even though there was no way to know who owns the land????
09-17-2013 07:16 PM
jmcd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teague242 View Post
If there were signs there I sure wouldn't go past them. I'll tell you that much.

If I knew I would get shot or go to jail I would just stay home and get fat....
If a burglar robbed your house, got caught and said " you didn't have a don't rob me sign" how would you like that?
09-17-2013 07:10 PM
Teague242
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPDON View Post

Wrong..... the law should be "Consider ALL land posted unless you own it, or have permission to be there!"
I'll consider all land public or state unless there are posted signs.
09-17-2013 07:09 PM
Teague242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcd View Post
If you knew that you would get shot or go to jail, you would probably want to research a little.
If there were signs there I sure wouldn't go past them. I'll tell you that much.

If I knew I would get shot or go to jail I would just stay home and get fat....
09-17-2013 07:07 PM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teague242 View Post

The law should be: put signs up. And if some idiot comes on your property, either shoot him or have him arrested. If he gets hurt its his own fault an trespassing charges will be pressed against him.

.
Wrong..... the law should be "Consider ALL land posted unless you own it, or have permission to be there!"
09-17-2013 07:03 PM
jmcd If you knew that you would get shot or go to jail, you would probably want to research a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teague242 View Post
Its the trespassers responsibility to know where he's at, but if he falls and gets hurt on your property he can sue you. So basically your inviting him to come on in and welcome him to your hard earned money.

The law should be: put signs up. And if some idiot comes on your property, either shoot him or have him arrested. If he gets hurt its his own fault an trespassing charges will be pressed against him.

If it comes to the point where I have to research the hell out of the land that I want to go on before I go for a walk or ride on it... I'm leaving this country....
09-17-2013 06:46 PM
Teague242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcd View Post
As a landowner I know that by law it's not my responsibility to put up a fence or sign to inform you that you are trespassing. It's your responsibility to know where you are at. That being said, the officer could have accomplished the same thing by just telling you. I like it when they tell you "I'm just doing my job", that translates to I'm a dick but I'm still going to sleep good tonight.
Its the trespassers responsibility to know where he's at, but if he falls and gets hurt on your property he can sue you. So basically your inviting him to come on in and welcome him to your hard earned money.

The law should be: put signs up. And if some idiot comes on your property, either shoot him or have him arrested. If he gets hurt its his own fault an trespassing charges will be pressed against him.

If it comes to the point where I have to research the hell out of the land that I want to go on before I go for a walk or ride on it... I'm leaving this country....
09-17-2013 06:40 PM
jmcd As a landowner I know that by law it's not my responsibility to put up a fence or sign to inform you that you are trespassing. It's your responsibility to know where you are at. That being said, the officer could have accomplished the same thing by just telling you. I like it when they tell you "I'm just doing my job", that translates to I'm a dick but I'm still going to sleep good tonight.
09-17-2013 06:18 PM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
This is intended for nobody in particular but I am really amazed at general attitudes concerning other peoples private property whether it is state, federal, corporation or individual owned. I guess he same could be said for vandalizing somebodies vehicle get out and don't get caught and it is ok or for stealing somebodies things don't get caught and if you do flee and it is ok..
YESSSSSS!!!!! As a land owner; I have been extremely frustrated by some peoples attitude toward MY land for years. Hunters, snowmobilers, and ATV'ers seem to think every land owner OWES them a place to hunt or play! And what really pisses me off is the fact that a lot of them are in their particular "club", supposedly to help perpetuate their particular sport. I sometimes wonder if they ever see themselves as they really are.
As a side note, the 4X4 club (Cliffhangers out of Williston, ND) that I belong to has an excellent relationship with land owners and the forest service. But with the forest service, it almost becomes a 'Catch 22' situation in that we are to stay on "established" trails only; but when we get done with an event they can not see any evidence of an "established" trail, so they then don't know if we really should have been there. But they keep issuing permits, so all is still OK.
09-17-2013 06:07 PM
jadmt One of my favorite Montana signs was "I can't afford to feed a dog but can afford bullets STAY OUT"
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