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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-29-2013 02:15 PM
thebuilderman
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLRUBI13 View Post
Umm... Builderman, I hope you know I'm on your side. My previous diesels... 2001 ford 7.3 2004 ford 6.blow!! 2006 dodge 5.9 cummins 2008 gmc 6.6 duramax. Currently 2013 VW touareg TDI.
With a list that looks like your I know. You are a diesel dude through and through. I love my Cummins. In '92 I dumped it in a deep eddy and sucked water. That sucked but the motor never let me down even after.
My Duramax was awesome and fast but the truck wasn't tough enough. My '06 Dodge Cummins is the baddest truck I have ever owned. It's pulled a 10 yard dump trucks full of gravel out of the mud idling in 4low. It's just so big. If it wasn't so damn big it would also be the awesome wheeler. It will climb a cliff if it gets traction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taterhed View Post
for the record....
I have a 2000 Ford 7.3 4x4, long bed, crew cab.
run's like a deere (pardon the pun)
get's better mileage than my LJ (sad to say)
More power (way more power)

I would never trade that for a v10 or 351. I've had the 351 as well.

I too am waiting for that powerful, fuel sipping, reliable diesel that is in my future.

If CAT would go ahead and make the small diesel they've been fooling with for years (got killed in the latest economic crash) we could have a Jeep with a CAT!!!

I wouldn't know which hat to buy!!!
I have had that dream. I even heard Cat was playing with that idea. I like Cat. Cat is good. I think I am biased though, even though I am not knowledgeable with the nuts and bolts I have a Cummins. It is family, family that will never let you down or strand you. Family with 600lbs of torque and 4wheel drive.

All I need in life. Fishing, mountains and a Cummins diesel in a Jeep. I've prayed to the great Gods of Jeep but they're busy kissing European *ss!!
09-23-2013 01:24 PM
taterhed for the record....
I have a 2000 Ford 7.3 4x4, long bed, crew cab.
run's like a deere (pardon the pun)
get's better mileage than my LJ (sad to say)
More power (way more power)

I would never trade that for a v10 or 351. I've had the 351 as well.

I too am waiting for that powerful, fuel sipping, reliable diesel that is in my future.

If CAT would go ahead and make the small diesel they've been fooling with for years (got killed in the latest economic crash) we could have a Jeep with a CAT!!!

I wouldn't know which hat to buy!!!
09-18-2013 10:33 PM
CLRUBI13
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuilderman View Post
I don't know the nuts and bolts of it. I do know I have had a '91 Cummins then a Dodge 2500 V8, 360 cc in '97 and a Duramax in '02 and now a '06 Cummins. Once you go diesel you can't go back. I think my Diesel loaded down would smoke that Pentastar on the Cherokee pulling something up a long grade. Even after the Pentastar has long been blown to bits by the full throttle you would have to use to my 2300 rpms at no where near full. I'll know more when my new granite chrystal loaded JKUR X comes in, that is if I survive the wait. Gonna try to keep it as stock as possible till the diesel comes out.
Umm... Builderman, I hope you know I'm on your side. My previous diesels... 2001 ford 7.3 2004 ford 6.blow!! 2006 dodge 5.9 cummins 2008 gmc 6.6 duramax. Currently 2013 VW touareg TDI.
09-18-2013 06:22 PM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post
Yea.... Those aren't going to cut it.
Lol, well you have the armada at least!
09-18-2013 05:56 PM
Rubi513
Quote:
Originally Posted by overblown View Post
I hit the 2 instead of the 3, my mistake. But you get the idea now. If you really want something you can safely tow behind your wrangler, check out this thread. http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/pul...er-173848.html
Yea.... Those aren't going to cut it.
09-18-2013 04:57 PM
MI JeepSkate
Quote:
Originally Posted by FXnut View Post
I can tell you from experience as the owner of a 2012 Passat TDI sport with DSG... Diesels aint' slow..

I've never said "dang, I wish I had a gasser, I just don't have enough power to pass.."

Especially when warranty is up and I throw a Malone tune on..

Stage 1 tune for $499 > 153whp (173bhp) / 287lb-ft (324lb-ft crank) and still over 1100kms/tank for mileage!

I think Jeep should take some cues from VW or Mercedes Bluetec.
you do realize the CRD is a mercedes motor correct?
09-18-2013 03:47 PM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post
Well you are correct. Sort of. Tow rating is 3500 lbs. I don't know where I came up with 7500 lbs. Well, looks like I will have to wait on the Nissan Titan with the v8 cummins. Maybe I can sell the camper and buy a class c motorhome. The boat only weighs 2950 lbs. O.K. I am back. Bring on the Wrangler diesel
I hit the 2 instead of the 3, my mistake. But you get the idea now. If you really want something you can safely tow behind your wrangler, check out this thread. http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/pul...er-173848.html
09-18-2013 03:36 PM
Rubi513
Quote:
Originally Posted by overblown View Post
My friend, again, I hate to have to break this to you but you should do some research on towing with a wrangler. I'll tell you this much, the max tow rating on a wrangler is 2500 pounds. And as you probably know, the tongue weight is between 9 and 15% of that as a general rule of thumb. So, perhaps you are thinking of cherokee tow numbers or something, but you will be sadly dissapointed if you try to tow that stuff with your wrangler. It won't end well to say the least.

Oh and btw, it has nothing to do with the engine. The Pstar has the power to tow more than the wrangler is rated for. It has to do with the wheel base of the wrangler mostly and partly it's weight.

What do ya say, another beer?
Well you are correct. Sort of. Tow rating is 3500 lbs. I don't know where I came up with 7500 lbs. Well, looks like I will have to wait on the Nissan Titan with the v8 cummins. Maybe I can sell the camper and buy a class c motorhome. The boat only weighs 2950 lbs. O.K. I am back. Bring on the Wrangler diesel
09-18-2013 03:26 PM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post
I will have to check the weight of the camper but I know my boat is not over 7500 pounds. My wife's Armada pulls both just fine.
My friend, again, I hate to have to break this to you but you should do some research on towing with a wrangler. I'll tell you this much, the max tow rating on a wrangler is 3500 pounds on a 4 door. And as you probably know, the tongue weight is between 9 and 15% of that as a general rule of thumb. So, perhaps you are thinking of cherokee tow numbers or something, but you will be sadly dissapointed if you try to tow that stuff with your wrangler. It won't end well to say the least.

Oh and btw, it has nothing to do with the engine. The Pstar has the power to tow more than the wrangler is rated for. It has to do with the wheel base and suspension of the wrangler mostly and partly it's weight.

What do ya say, another beer?
09-18-2013 02:30 PM
Rubi513 I will have to check the weight of the camper but I know my boat is not over 7500 pounds. My wife's Armada pulls both just fine.
09-18-2013 02:11 PM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post

LOL! No, I haven't owned one. I usually only bring up the trouble with that engine when someone bad mouths the diesel.

The jeep I have now is not my daily driver. However I am ready to trade in my daily driver on something else. If jeep puts the 3.0 diesel in the wrangler I will definitely buy one. I need something that will pull a 24' boat and a 30' camper. I think the diesel would handle this a lot better than the 3.6.
Towing those with a Jeep Wrangler would not be safe. You need more mass up front than a wrangler. Electric brakes & sway control would not be sufficient to compensate for basic laws of physics.
09-18-2013 01:50 PM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post
LOL! No, I haven't owned one. I usually only bring up the trouble with that engine when someone bad mouths the diesel.

The jeep I have now is not my daily driver. However I am ready to trade in my daily driver on something else. If jeep puts the 3.0 diesel in the wrangler I will definitely buy one. I need something that will pull a 24' boat and a 30' camper. I think the diesel would handle this a lot better than the 3.6.
You're right. The diesel would. But your wrangler won't. I'm sorry to have to say it but you would have to be truly insane to try and tow a 30' trailer or a 24' boat with a wrangler. Now having broken that news, let me buy you a beer.
09-18-2013 01:43 PM
Rubi513
Quote:
Originally Posted by overblown View Post
Ok, I have to ask. Where you burned by a 2012 that had a head issue? I only ask because you bring it up so much that it sounds like you have a personal vendetta. If so, what's the story? If not.....well also what's the story?
LOL! No, I haven't owned one. I usually only bring up the trouble with that engine when someone bad mouths the diesel.

The jeep I have now is not my daily driver. However I am ready to trade in my daily driver on something else. If jeep puts the 3.0 diesel in the wrangler I will definitely buy one. I need something that will pull a 24' boat and a 30' camper. I think the diesel would handle this a lot better than the 3.6.
09-18-2013 01:43 PM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Yes and no. Part of the reason you see BMW and them offer diesels in the US is due to the fact that it gets their "factory MPG" figures up...that means, the average for the car maker goes up, giving them tax incentives and what not. While you are right, diesel isn't mainstream in the US, it is clawing its way on the map at least. Jeep knows that having a diesel wrangler would not only make their current customers happy, but also attract new customers, customers that buy other makes because they want a diesel. On top of all that, Jeep already HAS a good motor to shoehorn in. Vehicles like Vipers and Wranglers, without the enthusiast support, it's just another "car" and the wrangler is a pretty sh!tty "car."
Well you are forgetting a few things. One, Chrysler doesn't need a diesel in the wrangler right now in order to get their factory mpg up. They have other vehicles for that hench the cherokee getting it first. Second, the tooling, extra parts, service manuals, tech training etc that goes into putting a new engine in a car in general have to factored.

Many times it is easier and cheaper to just pay a "fine" than to do all that. The other thing you are forgetting is that Chrysler isn't a company that does things to make us happy. They do things that they think will make them money. And if we do end up getting diesels in our wranglers, it's because they want to see the green, not our beautiful smiling faces.
09-18-2013 01:35 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by overblown View Post
I also think another really good point is emerging here. We tend to forget that we are by far the minority in the auto world when it comes to mindset. In particular, our willingness to and desire to modify. The vast majority have no interest in that and even an actual aversion to it.

So whatever diesel they would offer, it needs to appease the masses in order to be viable. Along with great mpg needs to come great performance too. Right out of the box though, not requiring mods.
Yes and no. Part of the reason you see BMW and them offer diesels in the US is due to the fact that it gets their "factory MPG" figures up...that means, the average for the car maker goes up, giving them tax incentives and what not. While you are right, diesel isn't mainstream in the US, it is clawing its way on the map at least. Jeep knows that having a diesel wrangler would not only make their current customers happy, but also attract new customers, customers that buy other makes because they want a diesel. On top of all that, Jeep already HAS a good motor to shoehorn in. Vehicles like Vipers and Wranglers, without the enthusiast support, it's just another "car" and the wrangler is a pretty sh!tty "car."
09-18-2013 01:32 PM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by overblown View Post
I also think another really good point is emerging here. We tend to forget that we are by far the minority in the auto world when it comes to mindset. In particular, our willingness to and desire to modify. The vast majority have no interest in that and even an actual aversion to it.

So whatever diesel they would offer, it needs to appease the masses in order to be viable. Along with great mpg needs to come great performance too. Right out of the box though, not requiring mods.
Yup

That right there is probably the biggest reason. Very few wrangler folks want a diesel period
09-18-2013 01:19 PM
overblown I also think another really good point is emerging here. We tend to forget that we are by far the minority in the auto world when it comes to mindset. In particular, our willingness to and desire to modify. The vast majority have no interest in that and even an actual aversion to it.

So whatever diesel they would offer, it needs to appease the masses in order to be viable. Along with great mpg needs to come great performance too. Right out of the box though, not requiring mods.
09-18-2013 01:04 PM
overblown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post
Owning that tickastar has made you nervous about warranty issues huh?
Ok, I have to ask. Where you burned by a 2012 that had a head issue? I only ask because you bring it up so much that it sounds like you have a personal vendetta. If so, what's the story? If not.....well also what's the story?
09-18-2013 10:38 AM
machz
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
    Well so far the OEM is one step ahead so you take a gamble. Not for me. I still would take the 3.0 box stock in a wrangler tho.
I agree, I know on my 13 mustang GT/CS they can tell if you reprogram even if you try to remove it.
09-17-2013 09:30 PM
CLRUBI13 There was one?
09-17-2013 06:30 PM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
If it can be programmed it can be unprogrammed. Plenty of companies can detect when their vehicles have been chipped and chip manufacturers work their way around it. It's a cat and mouse game.
Well so far the OEM is one step ahead so you take a gamble. Not for me. I still would take the 3.0 box stock in a wrangler tho.
09-17-2013 06:25 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post

this is bad or misinformation. I can tell you first hand that Dodge can in fact detect and nullify your warranty for chipping a diesel when your transmission gets roasted. They could tell 5 years ago so they sure can tell now. When you flash back to stock you still live a finger print that it has been chipped. I can also tell you that the Magnusen-moss warranty act does not protect you when you chip and your tranny goes out either.
If it can be programmed it can be unprogrammed. Plenty of companies can detect when their vehicles have been chipped and chip manufacturers work their way around it. It's a cat and mouse game.
09-17-2013 05:18 PM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
After owning probably close to a dozen chipped vehicles, i have yet to find a dealer that can detect it, especially if you flash it back to stock before bringing it in. BMW and Audi are MUCH more careful for checking if their ECUs being tuned than Chrysler.
this is bad or misinformation. I can tell you first hand that Dodge can in fact detect and nullify your warranty for chipping a diesel when your transmission gets roasted. They could tell 5 years ago so they sure can tell now. When you flash back to stock you still live a finger print that it has been chipped. I can also tell you that the Magnusen-moss warranty act does not protect you when you chip and your tranny goes out either.
09-17-2013 04:51 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Good point but apples to apples...why compared a geared pentastar to a badly geared diesel? If both are geared properly the diesel will have a big advantage when weighed down. Fuel economy is just a bonus for me, I want it because it would have a much easier time hauling around 600lbs of armor, 500lbs of gear, 300lbs in tires, and 350lbs of passenger.
Well, that's the thing. Gas engines tend to need a lot more gear than diesels. As long as the gas engine is geared steep enough to stay in a powerband where it makes as much average power as the diesel, there is no difference in how they will accelerate the load.

Doesn't mean the diesel isn't way better in a lot of different ways. God know you'll wear a gas engine out a lot faster if you are moving all that weight constantly with a gas engine at 5500 rpm.
09-17-2013 04:45 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post

I just referenced the 7.3 because it is widely regarded as an exceptional engine. At least reputationally. But I've heard even the later 6.0 diesels actually had really good reliability.

A 3.0, 240 horse? To me that is right there on the line where I am really not sure which I'd prefer. I think a properly-geared Pentastar is going to out-accelerate it under just about every set of conditions, especially if the offer the 8 speed, and the diesel has the up-front cost disadvantage. OTOH, the fuel economy, durability, and the fact that the 3.0 won't have to shift or rev nearly as much are very strong factors in favor of the diesel.
Good point but apples to apples...why compared a geared pentastar to a badly geared diesel? If both are geared properly the diesel will have a big advantage when weighed down. Fuel economy is just a bonus for me, I want it because it would have a much easier time hauling around 600lbs of armor, 500lbs of gear, 300lbs in tires, and 350lbs of passenger.
09-17-2013 04:14 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Why would you want a 7.3L when a 3.0 does a fantastic job?
I just referenced the 7.3 because it is widely regarded as an exceptional engine. At least reputationally. But I've heard even the later 6.0 diesels actually had really good reliability.

A 3.0, 240 horse? To me that is right there on the line where I am really not sure which I'd prefer. I think a properly-geared Pentastar is going to out-accelerate it under just about every set of conditions, especially if the offer the 8 speed, and the diesel has the up-front cost disadvantage. OTOH, the fuel economy, durability, and the fact that the 3.0 won't have to shift or rev nearly as much are very strong factors in favor of the diesel.
09-17-2013 04:09 PM
NFRs2000NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
I'm sure the power gains on a forced induction vehicle are fantastic, but it's just not a game I want to play.

Kind of sad, though. I think a chipped Cummins or 7.3 would be a lot of fun, get good economy and great power. I may reconsider, but for now I am pretty happy with my 3.6 JKUR.
Why would you want a 7.3L when a 3.0 does a fantastic job?
09-17-2013 04:06 PM
i82much Dude if an HD diesel engine can't beat a 360 cc engine then something is wrong. Was your 2500 a two stroke?

09-17-2013 04:03 PM
thebuilderman
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLRUBI13 View Post
Obviously you have not driven a modern diesel powered vehicle. 260tq vs 420tq winner winner.... Popcorn!! I own both.
I don't know the nuts and bolts of it. I do know I have had a '91 Cummins then a Dodge 2500 V8, 360 cc in '97 and a Duramax in '02 and now a '06 Cummins. Once you go diesel you can't go back. I think my Diesel loaded down would smoke that Pentastar on the Cherokee pulling something up a long grade. Even after the Pentastar has long been blown to bits by the full throttle you would have to use to my 2300 rpms at no where near full.
I'll know more when my new granite chrystal loaded JKUR X comes in, that is if I survive the wait. Gonna try to keep it as stock as possible till the diesel comes out.
09-17-2013 03:49 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
After owning probably close to a dozen chipped vehicles, i have yet to find a dealer that can detect it, especially if you flash it back to stock before bringing it in. BMW and Audi are MUCH more careful for checking if their ECUs being tuned than Chrysler.
I'm sure the power gains on a forced induction vehicle are fantastic, but it's just not a game I want to play.

Kind of sad, though. I think a chipped Cummins or 7.3 would be a lot of fun, get good economy and great power. I may reconsider, but for now I am pretty happy with my 3.6 JKUR.
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