Jeep Wrangler Forum - Reply to Topic
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum > death wobble unsolved

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Thread: death wobble unsolved Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
11-15-2009 12:23 AM
rrich DW can occur at most any speed, it's not limited to 50 MPH. Sometimes you can accelerate through it - if you dare.

Since the alignment shop initially missed the worn drag link end, I wouldn't put much faith in their conclusions about the rest of it being tight.

Get under it, (wheels still on the ground) have a friend inside to work the steering wheel. Have the friend quickly rock the steering wheel back and forth to the extent of the freeplay.
Use your fingers - they are more sensitive than your eyesight for this - put your fingers on all the joints - drag link ends, tie rod ends, control arm bushings etc. You are looking for looseness, you'll feel it before you see it. Replace what's loose.

And - remove the bolt through the trackbar at the axle end. Pull the trackbar end down out of the way. Put the bolt back through the holes in the axle bracket - it has to fit snugly in the holes. You should not be able to wiggle the bolt side to side in the hole.

Check the bolt itself for wear - it's a special bolt with a longer than normal smooth shank - dealers have them for about $4.00. Parts houses don't have the right ones.

If there's any play between the bolt and the holes it will allow the axle to work back and forth - no matter how tight you tighten that bolt.

If it's loose - if the hole is warbled out, let us know and we'll show how to fix it.

And - look very closely at the steering box mount. It has a "pod" shaped thing that it mounts to - seems on lots of TJ's those welds aren't good. Look for a rust colored line - signs of a crack - the edges of the crack rub against each other scraping off fine particles of steel. Those particles rust, making it easy to spot the crack by the orange line.
It's easy to gusset that pod before it breaks off completely

Tip: Any place you suspect a crack - spray a thin coating of flat black on the area. Then drive it, then look for that line to develop === called a "poor man's magnaflux."
11-14-2009 05:37 PM
Gary2
Quote:
Originally Posted by rico334 View Post
Death Wobble and Bump Steer are not the same ? What distinguishes the two ?
DW is a lot of Violent Shaking caseed usually by something loose or worn while Bump Steer is more of a geometry issue . The most pronounced display of Bump steer I ever had was hitting a large dip not a pot hole at about 70mph as the suspension compresses and rebounds you will notice the vehicle travels straight the whole time but as the suspension cycles the steering wheel made almost a half a turn . It gets your attention . This took place in my early days of lifting Dodge Rams which has basically a larger version of the Jeep front end and I learnd quickly that if you drop the track bar you use a drop pitman with the same amount of drop and vice versa
11-14-2009 04:53 PM
350chevrolet put up a pic of the front suspension so we can see if anything is obviously messed up. sometimes a second, or in this case a 3rd, 4th, ..., set of eyes helps.
11-14-2009 04:51 PM
rico334 Death Wobble and Bump Steer are not the same ? What distinguishes the two ?
11-14-2009 03:01 PM
Gary2 Anything with play will cause it even a worn steering box , have you checked the sector shaft for play .I built a steering box brace with a bearing to support the end of the sector shaft to prolong the life of steering boxes . I learned that trick from many years of chasing DW on a few Dodge Ram 4x4 front ends . All I ever had on my mind was stopping and doing so as quick as I safely could but then again I never had it in my Jeep but very often in a Dodge truck ( similar type of front end ) it usually started when I hit a bump at about 70 mph which was why stopping was all that I thought of doing , never tried to accelerate to a higher speed to tell you the truth. I never thought of it at the time .
11-14-2009 12:28 PM
neo
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo View Post
i went to alignement shop today my drag link end is shot the end that connects to the center link.rustys is sending me a new one.neo
i replaced the drag link end still death woble.the only that not new is control arms bushing the are 11 years oldneo
11-10-2009 07:11 PM
neo i went to alignement shop today my drag link end is shot the end that connects to the center link.rustys is sending me a new one.neo
11-09-2009 11:38 PM
tlrrob1000 Ooops caught me sleeping Jerry. Have YJ on the brain.
When you replaced your tires did it start after that? They maybe out of balance. Like Jerry said your alignment maybe an issue also. Tire places usually have a hard time balancing tires that big due to their balancing machines are usually not set up for them.
11-09-2009 10:22 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
In addition to DW, that dropped Pitman arm is also causing your TJ to have bump steer.
That was poorly worded but it's too late to edit it. Your dropped Pitman arm has nothing to do with your DW, it is however causing bump steer.
11-09-2009 02:19 AM
Rawkon On top of what Jerry said have you checked the ujoint in your axle shafts???
11-09-2009 01:35 AM
Jerry Bransford I can tell you one more thing after seeing how you got to 4.5" of suspension lift, that the dropped Pitman arm needs to go and the OE Pitman arm needs to be reinstalled. In addition to DW, that dropped Pitman arm is also causing your TJ to have bump steer.

I'm guessing you aren't going to take that alignment recommendation seriously so maybe this suggestion won't have been worth the time to post either.
11-09-2009 01:03 AM
neo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawkon View Post
can you give us details on the 7.5" of lift?
all lift components been on almost 4 years now

3 in body lift
2.5 coil springs
2 in budget boost
drop pitman
longer shocks
front and rear sway bar disconnext

the problem started 6 months ago
everything i replaced was wore out.
death wobble still thereneo
11-09-2009 12:52 AM
Rawkon can you give us details on the 7.5" of lift?
11-09-2009 12:42 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlrrob1000 View Post
My two cents... are your spring pin bushings wiped out?
He has a TJ with coil springs, are you talking about a leaf spring Jeep?
11-08-2009 09:15 PM
tlrrob1000 My two cents... are your spring pin bushings wiped out?
11-08-2009 06:35 PM
neo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Wait, it ONLY occurs at 40 mph and you can accelerate through it to make it stop? If that's the case, you don't have DW. True DW is SO violent that you cannot simply accelerate through it. It sounds like nothing more than a shimmy which is generally always tire or wheel related.
not a shimmy the front end shakes so bad you think everything is going to come apartneo
11-08-2009 06:31 PM
Jerry Bransford Wait, it ONLY occurs at 40 mph and you can accelerate through it to make it stop? If that's the case, you don't have DW. True DW is SO violent that you cannot simply accelerate through it. It sounds like nothing more than a shimmy which is generally always tire or wheel related.
11-08-2009 06:28 PM
neo i am beginning to hate my jeep,everything i replaced was truly worn out
the death wobble occurs at exactly 40 miles per hour,if i accelerate rate on thru its is ok,it only occurs at 40 miles per hourneo
11-08-2009 06:27 PM
Jerry Bransford He assures you it is correct but not all alignment shops, even the good ones, know that the caster angle needs to be decreased as the tire size increases. Many go to great lengths to restore the caster angle exactly to the factory caster angle which is not correct for larger tire sizes.

Exactly what is your current caster angle?
11-08-2009 06:24 PM
neo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
What are your caster and toe-in angles? With 35" tires, the caster angle should be roughly 4.5 to 5 degrees and the toe-in angle should be .15 which can be set manually by rotating the tie rod so the front of your tires are 3/16" closer together than the rears are.

Here's a good way to do that, measuring at points equal to your 35" tire's dimension. With a little care to insure you get 3/16", your toe-in setting will be as precise and correct as the best alignment machine results.

Too much caster angle can encourage DW, as can improper toe-in. Good luck.

Edit: The below suggestion to check the passenger side's trackbar mounting bolt hole to make sure it is not enlarged/wallowed out is right on. If that hole is enlarged, it will allow the trackbar to move which is one of the most common contributors to or causes of DW.
my front alignment is correct,there is only one shop in town i trust for this
he does alignment on modified vehicals no one else will touch.neo
11-08-2009 05:34 PM
1BLKJP Typically DW in tj's has to do with the trac bar. Had you drilled out the axle bracket to move it over before? Have you checked to see if the bracket hole is wallowed out at all so that it loosen up the bolt?
11-08-2009 05:31 PM
Jerry Bransford What are your caster and toe-in angles? With 35" tires, the caster angle should be roughly 4.5 to 5 degrees and the toe-in angle should be .15 which can be set manually by rotating the tie rod so the front of your tires are 3/16" closer together than the rears are.

Here's a good way to do that, measuring at points equal to your 35" tire's dimension. With a little care to insure you get 3/16", your toe-in setting will be as precise and correct as the best alignment machine results.

Too much caster angle can encourage DW, as can improper toe-in. Good luck.

Edit: The below suggestion to check the passenger side's trackbar mounting bolt hole to make sure it is not enlarged/wallowed out is right on. If that hole is enlarged, it will allow the trackbar to move which is one of the most common contributors to or causes of DW.
11-08-2009 05:24 PM
snwchris Have you checked all the bolts on the front end.. CA's, Trackbars, etc...
Physically put a wrench on them & check.

I had an issue last week and my lower control arm bolts were loose.

Chris
11-08-2009 04:46 PM
neo
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo View Post
i have had my 1999 tj sport for 7 years now,a few months back it developed the death wobble.it has a 4.5 in susp.lift 3 in body lift .installed the lift kits in
2006 so the lift is not the problem.death wobble in tj's is common
i know people that run stock 30X950 ats and never go off road this has death wobble.


i repaired the problems i found below

1.lower ball joints were totally worn out.i replaced all 4 ball joints.
2.i had a lot of play in track bar bracket,i got rid of track bar bracket and installed a new adjustable track bar.
3.i replaced my wore out 35 x 12:50 mud kings with 35x12:50 AT"s
4.I intalled a rustys steering conversion with all new moog tie rod ends
5.i replaced my wore out rotors and pads and calipers
6.my front end alignment and tires are placed
7.i replaced my wore out steering stabilizer

i fixed a lot of wore out stuff,still have death wobble,what gives
i have never ran into a problem i cant fix.neo
8.i forgot to mention,i had a little play in my bearing and hub assembly on the passanger side,soi replaced the bearing and hubb assembly.neo
11-07-2009 05:22 PM
neo
death wobble unsolved

i have had my 1999 tj sport for 7 years now,a few months back it developed the death wobble.it has a 4.5 in susp.lift 3 in body lift .installed the lift kits in
2006 so the lift is not the problem.death wobble in tj's is common
i know people that run stock 30X950 ats and never go off road this has death wobble.


i repaired the problems i found below

1.lower ball joints were totally worn out.i replaced all 4 ball joints.
2.i had a lot of play in track bar bracket,i got rid of track bar bracket and installed a new adjustable track bar.
3.i replaced my wore out 35 x 12:50 mud kings with 35x12:50 AT"s
4.I intalled a rustys steering conversion with all new moog tie rod ends
5.i replaced my wore out rotors and pads and calipers
6.my front end alignment and tires are placed
7.i replaced my wore out steering stabilizer

i fixed a lot of wore out stuff,still have death wobble,what gives
i have never ran into a problem i cant fix.neo

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC