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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-17-2009 11:17 PM
Schmo Good luck . . . really seems to be a hit and miss type of thing. Some have the bushings without any issue and others like me have constant headaches. One of the guys I wheel with all the time had almost the same exact set up as I did with poly bushings and his has been fine for a couple years (partly why I went with the kit I went with . . . hey it works good for Rick), but mine were going out non stop . . . drove me nuts. When I started looking on-line, I found out I wasn't alone and now a buddy of mine is going thru the same thing with his RE bushings failing really quickly. Forking over more cash to upgrade what I thought was an upgrade was a big pill to swallow . . . which is why I went thru my fair share of RE's on the house specials before changing them out! It sucks cuz you hear great things about the RE arms from the guys with the old style that had the OEM bushings.
11-17-2009 10:09 PM
KBR97 Once the new bushings come in I'll see how they sit. Worst case I'll put the stockers back in and try to sell the RE's like you said.
After reading AZ's post about his being fine it makes me wanna just throw the new ones in and hopefully be done. But seeing so many others with problems....ugh..maybe I should just go for the long arm when tax returns come..lol

Well thank you for all the info.
11-17-2009 09:31 PM
Schmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBR97 View Post
Well actually to be honest...I noticed the bushings were pushing out and cracking the day after a "good" wheeling trip which was only 2 weeks after installing the kit.
Its now, 6 months later that the front end is starting to clunk around because the arms now have "play" in them.

This kinda makes me wish I would have bought REs basic kit without the arms.
Sorry man . . . I feel your pain . . . you can take comfort in the fact that you are not alone. My buddy thought he was getting a steal on a set of all 8 RE arms used . . . spent about 100 bucks replacing all of the bushings and they are all shot after a couple of months and just a handful of trips off road. Believe it or not, the FT poly bushings I had were even worse than the RE's and I was lucky if they weren't completely ripped up after one outing . . . and the FT guys weren't nearly as good about trying to stand behind their product and sending out replacements like RE has done on their dime.

Your point about the bushings starting to fail within a couple of weeks and after one trip off road is exactly what makes me chuckle when I read comments about the Joints on both ends being a bad idea or leading to vibes and what not . . . Look at the pics and how the RE bushings are completely split in half allowing a half inch worth of play (that clunk your hearing) and allowing the metal of the arm to rest right on the bolt and tell me how a Joint is going to worsen the ride. IMO a working joint is far superior to a bushing that is either failed or failing, which mine always seemed to be.

Seeing that you have a new set of bushings on the way, my advice would be to check how the arms sit in the brackets . . . on mine, it was apparent just by looking at how the arm and the bolt lined up in the bracket that there was going to be pressure on one spot, and even with a brand new bushing installed, you could see it compressing and buldging under the pressure. If you have the same issue, do yourself a favor and sell them while the bushings are new so you can get a decent price for them and upgrade. There's plenty of webwheelers that believe the hype about the double johnny joints that will buy them off you!
11-17-2009 09:04 PM
KBR97 Well actually to be honest...I noticed the bushings were pushing out and cracking the day after a "good" wheeling trip which was only 2 weeks after installing the kit.
Its now, 6 months later that the front end is starting to clunk around because the arms now have "play" in them.

This kinda makes me wish I would have bought REs basic kit without the arms.
11-17-2009 08:52 PM
Schmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBR97 View Post
scratch that idea then, lol.
Hopefully these other rubbers will last longer, or even better maybe last as long as their supposed to. I dont wanna replace bushings every six months.


Would the RE arms accept a OEM style Urethane replacement??
Like AzTJ mentioned, there's no way to do it without modifying the arm . . . I think one of the links I posted up has a write up on how to do it. After the "new and improved" bushing failed so quickly on me, I sold the RE arms and offset the price of the Currie's and it only ended up costing me a little more than what chopping the arms and welding a joint onto the other end would have run. You can't put a OEM style bushing in the newer RE arms as the arm is made for the hourglass shape bushing. 6 months really isn't that bad . . . I probably would have kept the RE arms if they would have lasted that long, I was blowing thru bushings every month or two if I was wheeling a lot. Something to take a look at next time you're under the Jeep is the angle that the bushing sits in the bracket. If it's nice and straight you might be okay, but if you see that the bushing is cocked in the bracket and is under constant pressure, you're going to be replacing those bushings again soon as the bushing will fail at that one pressure spot and then just continue to split the bushing in half . . . that's what was happening on mine . . . the joint removes that stress and pressure as everything is on a ball and doesn't matter if it's cocked in the bracket or not. The Joints are also supposed to remove some of the pressure off the the brackets lessening the likelyhood of ripping the bracket off the axle or frame which is pretty common.
11-17-2009 08:38 PM
KBR97 scratch that idea then, lol.
Hopefully these other rubbers will last longer, or even better maybe last as long as their supposed to. I dont wanna replace bushings every six months.


Would the RE arms accept a OEM style Urethane replacement??
11-17-2009 08:34 PM
AzTJ KBR97 - No, you'd have to modify the control arm end, remove the bushing part and install a bung to install some kind of johnny joint or flex joint.
11-17-2009 08:31 PM
KBR97 Well i have new rubbers on the way so I can at least replace whats there.
Anyone know if it would be possible to replace the rubber bushing with RE's superflex joint? Theres one on the axle end of the arm, I wonder If I could just install one on the other end...hmm

Thanks for the links, and the pics...cant wait to pull my bushings out and see what they look like! Mine are less than 6 months old too.
11-17-2009 07:46 PM
03 RUBI From the tone of some of these replies, the old adage comes to mind: Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one.
11-17-2009 07:18 PM
Schmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzTJ View Post
It's a known issue that Rubicon Express has gotten and continues to get a number of bad bushing batches. I was lucky enough to not get any bad ones. So YES, I believe that bushings are still a good idea.
Do a little more research . . . it's been a known issue for a couple of years . . . pretty much ever since they switched from the OEM style bushings (which actually seem to hold up relatively well in comparison) and went with the hour glass style bushings . . . and it's still an issue with their "new and improved" bushings that have the 4 injection molding marks on them . . . I tried one myself a couple of months ago and it split even faster than the rest . . . which is why I now have shiny new Currie Arms sitting in their place. And it's not just Rubicon Express, it's pretty much all control arms that have (non OEM style) bushings. In the first picture, only one of the bushings is RE . . . the rest are FT. You can believe whatever you'd like, but you might want to do a bit more research before labeling those with different experiences as dorks . . . kinda makes you look like one
11-17-2009 07:01 PM
AzTJ It's a known issue that Rubicon Express has gotten and continues to get a number of bad bushing batches. I was lucky enough to not get any bad ones. So YES, I believe that bushings are still a good idea.
11-17-2009 06:36 PM
Schmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBR97 View Post
And I was also just told by someone else that any vehicle that goes offroad shouldnt have bushings at all. And to get joints or new CA's with joints...wtf thats not happening.
Sounds like someone with real experience gave you some good advice . . . no need to take it . . . run or buy what you want and you'll end up figuring out what works for you, and who knows, your results, experience, needs may be different from others. I for one, wish someone would have given me that same advice and wish I would have seen the pages and pages of people complaining about having to constantly replace control arm bushings before I bought a Full Traction kit with poly bushings in the LCAs and Rubicon Express UCAs with the rubber bushings. After replacing a couple sets of trashed bushings on each, I UPGRADED to Currie Arms with Johnny Joints on both sides and both on-road and off-road they are far superior. Haven't had any of this issues rumored about by those who have never run them. But you should probably listen to them as they have more posts than I do


Quote:
Originally Posted by AzTJ View Post
As far as the person that told you that you don't need bushings, they are a dork. If you drive your TJ on the road at all, you want at least one bushing on the control arm. As far as added vibration, urethane will also limit the flex the control arm will have over rubber.
I guess I'm one of those dorks Funny I drive my TJ on the road quite a bit and yet I've experienced no added vibration . . . sounds like you've been drinking the koolaid that the webwheelers have been pouring!


Here's a little light reading for those considering buying control arms with bushings . . .
JK bushings shot after 6k - MJR

Rubicon Owners Forum - View topic - Rough Country's new 4 inch x series

Rubicon Owners Forum - View topic - Rubicon Express Rubber Bushings

And for those that prefer looking at pictures . . .


This is just one set of mine . . . these all had under 3 months on them.


Another guy I know with less than 6K miles on them.
11-17-2009 04:15 PM
KBR97 Ok so does any one else have any more info they can give me? Im getting a few different opinions which are all the opposite of each other.

Its basically a matter of rubber or urethane bushings VS. a control arm with joints on each end. For example the Currie CA's.

Ive been told, like above by AzTJ, that a jeep driven on the road should have at least one rubber bushing. And then I've been told by a few others that bushings on a vehicle that sees offroad should have joints at both ends, like the currie arms.
11-10-2009 05:07 AM
KBR97 Exactly the same things I was thinking.
11-10-2009 01:37 AM
AzTJ As far as the person that told you that you don't need bushings, they are a dork. If you drive your TJ on the road at all, you want at least one bushing on the control arm. As far as added vibration, urethane will also limit the flex the control arm will have over rubber.
11-10-2009 12:07 AM
KBR97 I sent them an email. See what they say.

So besides the possibility of added vibration, is there any other reasons why one might be better. I would think urethanes will be stronger and not push out or crack like rubber ones might.

And I was also just told by someone else that any vehicle that goes offroad shouldnt have bushings at all. And to get joints or new CA's with joints...wtf thats not happening.
11-09-2009 03:06 PM
AzTJ Rubber absorbs the bumps better than urethane. A urethane bushing will send more of the vibration into the frame and you. There have been issues in the past about RE's rubber bushings (I haven't had any), but it might be wise to contact them and see if they are willing to replace them.
11-09-2009 03:01 PM
KBR97
School me on CA bushings...

So after having crushed a lower control arm mount, the front end was a little off I guess, and was putting stress on my rubber bushings at the frame. (I have RE superflex lower CA's). I noticed the bushings were cracking and pushing out. Now after having new CA perches welded in, I need to replace the rubber bushings because their so bad I can feel the front end actually moves back and forth when I come to a stop.

My question is why does Rubicon Express use rubber bushings? Wouldn't it be better to replace with urethane?
As far as 4x4 vehicles what are the advantages and disadvantages of both?

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