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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-08-2010 05:16 AM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
Complete lack of government regulation is a libertarian fantasy, no reasonable person would advocate for, or expect to get it.
Free market simply means a lack of government manipulation of the market. Reasonable environmental and legal protections against fraud, theft and monopolies would still be required as long as those laws applied to everyone equally.
Glad to hear you make this point.
04-07-2010 02:04 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
So you have to go to China to find a free market. I just don’t get using free market as an ideal when it doesn’t exist in our country.
If it existed in our country then the protesters wouldn't need to list it as a point in their grievance with government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
I have been an advocate for Obama’s policy to the extent you are an advocate for corporate welfare. I hear lots of talk about how we need free markets from people that have never seen one in action.
I have never advocated corporate welfare to the best of my memory, perhaps you can point to this?
If you remember correctly, I was against the bail outs. I'm against tax breaks that favor anyone. I'm against subsidies. Government has no business in business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Read my posts, and I think you will find I have been a critic of Obama more than an advocate, but then putting words in my mouth gives you something to do. I see corporations offloading costs—health, environment, etc.—onto taxpayers (who are already saddled with regressive taxation and corporate welfare) as a primary issue rather than big government, which now only functions as a circus distraction while allowing corporate interests to craft the legislation they want. Why work so hard to keep the focus off the real problem?
I have read your posts and I certainly didn't find anywhere near as much criticism as advocacy for Obama.
I'm not working to keep the focus off the real problem. I simply see the problem from a different perspective. I believe that if you limit the government's ability to do favors for business then you dramatically reduce business interest in meddling in government.
Advocating for a free market means ending corporate welfare as well. Corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and bailouts are as detrimental to capitalism as direct meddling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
How’s the gun law in Hong Kong anyway? I’m sure you would love the fresh clean air.
Gun laws in Hong Kong are irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
I'm sure the air in Hong Kong is rather thick considering such a small area with such a large and robust economy but this is where most people misunderstand a free market. Free market does not mean a lack of reasonable environmental regulation. Complete lack of government regulation is a libertarian fantasy, no reasonable person would advocate for, or expect to get it.
Free market simply means a lack of government manipulation of the market. Reasonable environmental and legal protections against fraud, theft and monopolies would still be required as long as those laws applied to everyone equally.
04-07-2010 11:47 AM
jupiterboy So you have to go to China to find a free market. I just don’t get using free market as an ideal when it doesn’t exist in our country.

I have been an advocate for Obama’s policy to the extent you are an advocate for corporate welfare. I hear lots of talk about how we need free markets from people that have never seen one in action.

Read my posts, and I think you will find I have been a critic of Obama more than an advocate, but then putting words in my mouth gives you something to do. I see corporations offloading costs—health, environment, etc.—onto taxpayers (who are already saddled with regressive taxation and corporate welfare) as a primary issue rather than big government, which now only functions as a circus distraction while allowing corporate interests to craft the legislation they want. Why work so hard to keep the focus off the real problem?

How’s the gun law in Hong Kong anyway? I’m sure you would love the fresh clean air.
04-07-2010 08:56 AM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
I won’t address that because I never said or implied it. That tactic is so off the wall. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Hmm, you've been advocating for Obama in your own special way since you got here. The Obama administration is quite comfortable with government manipulation of private industry, in fact he's increased it dramatically since he took office. Since you continue support for him I assume you support his policies. I've also seen variations of your comment used many times in arguing against free markets. Since you continue to fail to make your position clear, you leave yourself open to interpretation. Don't get your panties in a knot if you don't like the interpretation.

Oh, and no wife beating here, Unlike some, I was raised to respect women. Even if that weren't the case , Amy owns more guns, knives and swords than I do and since I work nights. she's awake while I sleep and I'm not stupid enough to put myself up for the Bobbit award.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
All I note is that you neglected to offer a single example of a free market.
Umm, no, all you noted was that you were incapable of finding one. I wasn't aware that it was my job to provide you with one, especially since I wasn't discussing free markets with you.
Since you asked so nicely though, Hong Kong would be fairly close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Explain how farming in the US would work as a free market. Or pick any industry.
I would imagine somewhat like it did for hundreds of years before the fed started manipulating the market.
04-06-2010 04:14 PM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
And you want to keep it that way why?
I won’t address that because I never said or implied it. That tactic is so off the wall. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

All I note is that you neglected to offer a single example of a free market.

Explain how farming in the US would work as a free market. Or pick any industry.
04-05-2010 05:49 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
I still can’t come up with any free markets. It is all subsidies and tax breaks.
And you want to keep it that way why?
04-05-2010 05:45 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmo View Post
LOL!!! There's always more to the story! It’s nice to see that the leaders of the movement try to separate themselves from guys like this. I still find it interesting that this guy is the founder of the website TeaParty.org. The three points that you listed are exactly what I am referring to when I mention that the Tea Party make some good points. But unfortunately, even when I see articles or clips from Right leaning sources, I can’t help but notice things like the Confederate Flag, Firearms being displayed, not to mention Pirates . . . what the hell is up with guys showing up dressed like Pirates, anyway? Perhaps you can tell me if the Tea Party leadership/organizers asked for this behavior to cease or made attempts to separate from those individuals as well? I can’t speak for others, but it’s enough to keep me away, even though I would probably agree with many of their points, I don’t care to associate or be identified along with some of these types. Not only are things like these (not to mention the more offensive examples that the leadership might actually address and admonish) a turn off to potential participants that might identify with the message, but they also tend to encourage the masses to write off the message based on the delivery, and give ammunition to the opposition. That’s the only point I’ve been trying to make this whole time . . . I just stumbled onto the other information and figured I’d post it up seeing that you were asking the questions.
I've never seen any pirates. There are a very few people who dress up in early American style costumes, and since the stereotypical image of a pirate comes from that era perhaps that's what you're seeing?
As for the rest, it's the nature of the beast. Any open event, especially a political event will draw people from the fringes. That has always been the case and I don't see any way to stop it unless you hold invitation only events and dictate what people can and can't say. Think of a political rally like a pep rally before a football game, they're much the same. Your ordinarily calm and professional coach gets up foaming at the mouth screaming about going out and destroying the other team. He does this to build enthusiasm in the team.
I'm not sure you would want to stop it really. Those people are useful in a way and the left has proven it works. Read rules for radicals by Saul Alinsky.
As for ammunition for the enemy, meh, they've proven over and over again that if they can't find it they'll make it up. And it can be very effective when you point out the raging Hypocrisy from the left and their media lapdogs.
04-05-2010 03:49 PM
jupiterboy I still can’t come up with any free markets. It is all subsidies and tax breaks.
04-05-2010 03:03 PM
Schmo LOL!!! There's always more to the story! It’s nice to see that the leaders of the movement try to separate themselves from guys like this. I still find it interesting that this guy is the founder of the website TeaParty.org. The three points that you listed are exactly what I am referring to when I mention that the Tea Party make some good points. But unfortunately, even when I see articles or clips from Right leaning sources, I can’t help but notice things like the Confederate Flag, Firearms being displayed, not to mention Pirates . . . what the hell is up with guys showing up dressed like Pirates, anyway? Perhaps you can tell me if the Tea Party leadership/organizers asked for this behavior to cease or made attempts to separate from those individuals as well? I can’t speak for others, but it’s enough to keep me away, even though I would probably agree with many of their points, I don’t care to associate or be identified along with some of these types. Not only are things like these (not to mention the more offensive examples that the leadership might actually address and admonish) a turn off to potential participants that might identify with the message, but they also tend to encourage the masses to write off the message based on the delivery, and give ammunition to the opposition. That’s the only point I’ve been trying to make this whole time . . . I just stumbled onto the other information and figured I’d post it up seeing that you were asking the questions.
04-05-2010 01:00 PM
skeeter Yep, you got me. I definitely walked into something and it sure smells...

From your link;
Quote:
David Weigel at the Washington Independent dug up this photo of Dale Robertson, who heads up the would-be national Tea Party website TeaParty.org, with the sign he was carrying at the February 27, 2009 Tea Party in Houston.

According to Weigel, Robertson was eventually kicked out of the event for carrying the sign. But as with most right-wing populist movements, the most extreme elements are very determined to shape the movement in their direction, and will inevitably find ways to float to the top. Especially when the supposed mainstream "just folks" who populate much of the movement turn a willing blind eye to the extremists who increasingly are leading them.
Wow, the leader of the national Tea Party is a racist. Boy that's pretty damning evidence...(very logical and unbiased article BTW...)
Wait, that smell is getting stronger...
They kicked the "Self-proclaimed Tea Party founder Dale Robertson" out of the event? Hmm. That should have caused a pretty big stink in the movement. Wonder why I hadn't heard of this...
Lets go check with the folks that put the event on and get their side of the story.
Hmm, they don't seem to think he's their leader, That's odd...
http://houstontps.org/?p=1050
Quote:
A Note on Dale Robertson, self-described “tea party leader”
Wednesday, January 6, 2010
By Felicia Cravens

In response to questions we have received regarding Dale Robertson and his involvement with HoustonTPS, and specifically in reference to his attendance at our rally on 27 Feb 2009, we would like to state that:



1. He is NOT a member of our Leadership team.

2. He owns a website with which we have never been affiliated.

3. He has never been a part of organizing any of the Tea Party rallies in the Houston area, or any other area that we can find.

4. We addressed some issues involving him back in April. Here it is on our website, where Mr. Robertson himself comments: http://houstontps.org/?p=318

5. We do not choose to associate with people that use his type of disgusting language.



A search on Google yields plenty of information about Mr. Robertson, and a search of the various leadership teams among legitimate national tea party organizations show him nowhere to be found.
Hmm, more digging...
Pajamas Media » Dale Robertson, No Friend of Ours
Quote:
Houston has a problem.

Rather, the Houston tea party groups have a problem — a character named Dale Robertson. He is a self-appointed “leader” of the tea party movement, most famous for carrying a sign at the 3/27 tea party in Houston with the word “niggar” on it.

Not surprisingly, he was asked to leave.

Unfortunately, the press seems to find him newsworthy. He continues to show up in mass media professing to be the “founder” of the tea party movement. From his website:

Dale, is the founder of the modern day Tea Party. Dale Robertson, a public speaker, a family man with a wife and 5 children, has lead Tea Party rallies across America from its inception.

He owns the website TeaParty.org and has even hired publicist Tim Bueler to increase his profile.

So who exactly is this guy? And what makes him a leader of the tea party movement to substantiate the publicist’s claim? For one thing, he claims to be a hero, and because of this declaration he believes he should be considered a leader:
Unfortunately, Dale is very much not a hero to those who first encountered him in February of last year. He has been described as a fake, a con artist, and worse by frustrated tea party groups across the land. Houston’s, in particular, is so upset at being associated with the man that they sent out the following press release:

1. He is NOT a member of our Leadership team.

2. He owns a website with which we have never been affiliated.

3. He has never been a part of organizing any of the Tea Party rallies in the Houston area, or any other area that we can find.

4. We addressed some issues involving him back in April. Here it is on our website, where Mr. Robertson himself comments: http://houstontps.org/?p=318

5. We do not choose to associate with people that use his type of disgusting language.

Robertson and his publicist encourage the MSM to consider it a mere squabble between various factions involved in the tea party movement. But quick research on the internet shows that no one in the actual tea party movement wants anything to do with the man.

Needless to say, left-wing sites have been repeatedly drawing attention to him as an example of racism in the tea party.

Dennis Myers quotes a frustrated tea party member:

On one tea party-oriented site, a David Weigel (a tea party leader?) wrote, “The nice treatment of Robertson in the Washington Times … demonstrates just how hard it can be to deny someone “leader” status in the tea parties.”

The MSM was in search of a means to verify what they already believed — that tea party members are racist hicks (paying no heed to the movement’s sizable minority population). Dale Robertson provided them with that bugbear. Mr.Robertson clearly enjoys his time in the limelight. He does not seem to care how he got there or what kind of damage he is doing to the movement he professes to lead. Dale’s latest fundraising email showing Obama as a pimp has not helped his reputation, nor that of the movement.

We shall see how long it takes before the tea party movement finally gets the mainstream media to avoid this man. They have, for the most part, corrected the blogosphere. But they have a lot work left to do to marginalize this man.
I was wondering why I hadn't heard of this guy during the initial planning stage of the Tea Party movement. I'm not great at remembering names but I think I'd remember the founder during those discussions...
If you check a little deeper you find this guy is a squatter who's trying to capitalize on the Tea Party movement.
He hasn't run any event and is not a leader. He was kicked out of the event at which the picture was taken because of his racist sign. I'm not sure what more you want the group to do.
It's a perfect example of the left latching on to anything it can to smear the Tea Party movement. No matter what they do it will never be enough for some.

The Tea Party movement grew out of protests to the stimulus bill started by Keli Carender and given a name by Rick Santelli.
The original, and as far as I know, the current plan for the Tea Party groups is that each group is based on fiscal conservatism but is free to organize and operate as it sees fit. This keeps individuals or groups from co-opting the movement as a whole.

The Tea Party movement is based on three main principals:
1. Fiscal Responsibility
If you think the government is spending too much money and are interested in trying to make a difference, check out a Tea Party near you.

2. Constitutionally-limited government
If you think the government should be required to obey the law which governs them, check out a Tea Party near you.

3. Free Markets
If you think business should be able to be conducted without micro management and bailouts from the government, check out a Tea Party near you.

If you think the Tea Party is moving in the wrong direction, the best way to change it is to get involved.

To find a group near you, or just to get more information go to. Tea Party Patriots
04-02-2010 09:44 PM
Schmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
Your pictures. The first is idiotic. Where's it from? Is he a Tea Party member? Did anyone from the Tea Party address him about it? The racists. I have no doubt that racists have and will attend Tea Party events. What I want to know is what type of reception they get there? Did the other attendees accept it, did they embrace him? or did they shun him?

I almost feel like I should apologize, but seeing that you’ve asked the questions . . . here you go! I cannot take credit for finding this myself . . . I honestly had no idea when I posted up the pic, but this probably explains why it was at the top of the list during my search. Apparently that is a pic of Dale Robertson, who heads up the would-be national Tea Party website TeaParty.org, with the sign he was carrying at the February 27, 2009 Tea Party in Houston. Sorry but you walked right into that one!

Alan Colmes: Tea Partier Tells Mediaite Racist Sign Was Forged; We Have Him On Record Defending Its Use | Video Cafe

This guy wants to be a leader in the Tea Party movement | Crooks and Liars
04-02-2010 05:49 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmo View Post
You obviously don't get the point I'm making . . . I’m sorry, but I just don’t know how else to explain it to you.
I get the point you're making. I simply disagree and apparently I'm not explaining my reason well.
I believe in personal liberty and freedom. I believe people should be judged on their own merits. I don't believe organizations or government entities should dictate what people can and can't say at an open event.
I want the freaks, racists and morons to say what they believe because that lets me know exactly who they are.
When I went I didn't carry a sign. As I said, I think they're silly. I went to hear the speakers and talk to the people but I'm not going to tell others how they can and can't protest.
When I went I carried my gun but I carry my gun just about everywhere except work, government buildings and places that serve alcohol. I didn't carry openly. I wasn't there to protest gun rights. I did talk to the open carry guys and according to them one of the reasons other than simply to spawn dialogue, for the open carry movement is to get people used to seeing guns again so they don't automatically panic when they see someone with a gun. I don't know if I agree with it or not but I certainly understand it. When I was growing up it wasn't uncommon to see a truck with guns in the window or see a guy with a gun on his hip. Nobody freaked out. These days you'd have the cops all over you in heart beat.
I take the guys I talked to at their word and whether I agree with em or not, I'm not going to tell them how to go about their political statement. Is it intimidation? Of course it is. That's one of the main purposes of the second amendment.
Quote:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Thomas Jefferson
The racists. I have no doubt that racists have and will attend Tea Party events. What I want to know is what type of reception they get there? Did the other attendees accept it, did they embrace him? or did they shun him?
These are open events, everyone is allowed to attend. If an idiot shows up the organization is not responsible for his words unless they embrace and encourage it. The other attendees are not responsible unless they embrace or encourage it.
As for the picture. I simply don't understand racism. It's completely irrational to me and so I don't look for it. I lived in a predominately black and Hispanic area of southern California as a kid, White people were the minority. I've known too many smart, honest, hard working and friendly blacks, and too much white trash to think good or bad comes from the color of someones skin. Amy is the one that informed me that the picture had been pulled for racism, she can attest to my surprise but believe whatever you like.

The smear campaign, not falling for that eh? So when that guy awhile back flew the small plane into the federal building and they kept talking about how he was a right wing nut job and Tea Party type, that wasn't a smear? Even though his suicide note railed against big business and religion and quoted the communist manifesto?
How about when the Democrat office was vandalized in Denver and they went on and on about those crazy Tea Party types until the guy was caught and turned out to be a democrat?
How about Kilgore here trying to tie these hutoree morons to the Tea Party?
How about the hundreds of thousands of people who have peacefully attended tea Party rallies but all the media seems to be able to talk about is the fraction of a percent with a racist message and how violent it is?
You believe that's not a smear campaign?
Again I point to the coverage of leftist rallies and protests and ask if they got the same type of coverage?
Conservative groups will never get a fair shake from the leftist media no matter how much they try and conform to political correctness.

I'm not justifying any ones words or actions. I'm not responsible for them. I'm responsible for myself.
04-02-2010 12:35 PM
kilgoretrout844 What he said ^
04-02-2010 11:53 AM
Schmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
Sounds to me like you have fallen for it.
You obviously don't get the point I'm making . . . I’m sorry, but I just don’t know how else to explain it to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
Your pictures. The first is idiotic. Where's it from? Is he a Tea Party member? Did anyone from the Tea Party address him about it?.
Of course it's idiotic . . . that's the point . . . if you don't like that particular pic or question it's validity, I'm sure I can post up a couple hundred others, but I'm pretty sure you'll just argue that they are photoshopped, taken out of context, planted by the Left to make the TP look bad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
The second picture, Bush was portrayed as Hitler regularly by the left. is it somehow alright for them but not alright for conservatives?
Well good job then . . . I didn't realize that sinking down to the level that we saw from the Left during the Bush years was your goal . . . if so, congrats you've accomplished it. But wait a second . . . isn’t this the same type of behavior that the Right was bitching about for the last 8 years . . . now you simply justify it by saying "well they did it too" . . . are you really serious presenting this argument?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
The third picture, This one is interesting. I actually posted that one here and got slapped for it. To me I don't see anything racist in it but after it was explained to me I can see where others might.
Really, it took getting slapped for you to see where that pic might be considered racist . . . interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
But tell me, is sexism acceptable? have you watched the smearing of Sarah Palin by the left? On this very board she has been compared to a whore and told that her only qualification for office is her status as a "MILF". IS that any less offensive?
Bush has been portrayed as a chimp any number of times by the left. IS that any less offensive just because he's white? Has the media attacked the left for their actions while Bush was in office the same way they're attacking the Tea Party now?
Again . . . way to go . . . while you continue to justify these actions based on the fact that the Left did similar things . . . I'd rather see the Right focus on doing what's right . . . rather than act like asses and then try to justify it by saying "well they did it too". I hope you are starting to realize just how lame your argument really is. When you were a kid, did you get out of trouble by telling your parents that Johnny down the street did it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
Firearms. The Tea Party is about the federal government over stepping it's authority, what better example than firearms laws? The federal government is explicitly restrained from restricting our right to keep and bear arms and yet there are thousands of laws on the books doing exactly that, there's an entire agency devoted to firearms restrictions. Should conservatives not address this just because the left has succeeded in making firearms politically incorrect?
The Tea Party is a conservative movement, it wouldn't be what it is if they conform to what the leftist media considers acceptable.
I'm in total support of the right to bear arms . . . I'll actually be heading to the range this afternoon as a matter of fact! But I am not so naïve, that I am not able to understand the intentions of these folks that show up to a rally or protest displaying firearms . . . if you need it spelled out . . . INTIMIDATION. You can try to candy coat it any way you'd like . . . just like I'm not falling for the leftist smear campaign, I'm not falling for your weak arguments either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
I posted the pictures simply to make the point that the left spent eight years spewing this type of hateful rhetoric so it's pretty hypocritical to start whining when the right starts giving it back to them.
Some might also find it to be hypocritical to spend 8 years whining about the Left doing it, just to turn around and do the same thing, and attempt to justify it by saying that the Left did it too.
04-02-2010 11:52 AM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
The first I think is good.
The second is meaningless. Get the Russians to help with Iran and we'll have something worthwhile. Unfortunately I think it's too late to stop Iran from getting nukes.
This is the prelude to going to the rest of the world and trying to secure all the junk floating around. Lead by example, rather than showing your ass to the world? One step on a path.
04-02-2010 11:05 AM
skeeter The first I think is good.
The second is meaningless. Get the Russians to help with Iran and we'll have something worthwhile. Unfortunately I think it's too late to stop Iran from getting nukes.

I think he's destroying our relationship with Israel very publicly, he's also doing a great deal of damage to our relationship with Britain. Both are bad choices.
04-02-2010 10:28 AM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
Oh trust me, I think Bush was a piss poor president myself. I've stated that more than once.

But, what has Obama changed other than enhanced interrogation?
Obama Overturns Bush Order on Presidential Records - Government - The Chronicle of Higher Education

FOXNews.com - Obama, Russian Leader Sign Off on New Nuke Reduction Treaty

^good stuff

I also strongly suspect he is softening the relationship of the US to Isreal, but not publicly.

Staying the course with the bailout was tragic, but not surprising as his information is handled. He should give Volker more respect.

Pardoning the phone companies—very bad.
04-02-2010 10:11 AM
skeeter Oh trust me, I think Bush was a piss poor president myself. I've stated that more than once.

But, what has Obama changed other than enhanced interrogation?
04-02-2010 09:40 AM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
I posted the pictures simply to make the point that the left spent eight years spewing this type of hateful rhetoric so it's pretty hypocritical to start whining when the right starts giving it back to them.
And I posted the link to point out that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it may be a duck. I have not seen anything in the Obama administration that compares to the consistent disregard Bush showed for what I consider to be American ideals, and I include democracy as one. But as you say, he is no longer in office, and I will leave it to the historians to document and analyze.
04-02-2010 09:18 AM
skeeter I would hate to see a real third party. Either under Palin or Paul. I hope the Tea Party doesn't try and morph into an actual political party but continue on as it is. Right now it's simply driving dialogue on the issues.
I would much rather see the republican party cleaned up and redirected.
The corrupting pressures can be easily controlled by simplifying or doing away with the tax code and severely limiting the power of the federal government. If the government can't do anything for special interests then special interests will have less reason to apply pressure.

I posted the pictures simply to make the point that the left spent eight years spewing this type of hateful rhetoric so it's pretty hypocritical to start whining when the right starts giving it back to them.
04-02-2010 08:44 AM
jupiterboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
I didn’t post all those anti-bush images in this thread, and for the record, I don’t think Nazi and fascist should be tossed about casually, but I do believe Bush’s damage was very focuses and deliberate.

Also for the record, I would love to see a real third party, preferably behind Ron Paul rather than Sarah Palin.

However, a third party is subject to the same corrupting pressures that the other parties are subject to.

My biggest thrill at the moment is watching the euro falter. If the euro fails, and our government can pass a bill to control the financial institutions that has some teeth we will be making progress.

How to regulate international businesses and retain national sovereignty is the real challenge, IMO. Painting mustaches on puppets is childrens theater.

How about a draft? That would be a huge blow to creeping fascism.
04-02-2010 08:34 AM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
All this anti-American anti-Constitutional anti-Democratic erosion of time-proven structure is now open for political abuse from the other side, but the reality is that the new executive powers can only be used with the rubber stamp of international banking and other corporate powers that have seized control of the system from a weak and docile public.

Why is Guantanamo still open? It must be because the anti-Christ needs a place to lock up all the patriots after he has taken their guns?

jules crittenden: Top 10 Things You Can Do to Keep Guantanamo Open
Shhh, don't tell anybody else but, Bush isn't president anymore...

Oh and;
Naomi Wolf Thinks the Tea Parties Help Fight Fascism -- Is She Onto Something or in Fantasy Land? | News & Politics | AlterNet
04-02-2010 08:31 AM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilgoretrout844 View Post
So because we have the right to bear arms we should walk into town hall strapped? Well maybe I should show up to town hall just yelling obsenities... F this F that...I have the right to common sense fellas. Practice it
Who said we should walk in to town hall strapped? I wasn't aware that any Tea Party rallies were held in town halls.

Facts folks, try it...
04-02-2010 08:01 AM
jupiterboy All this anti-American anti-Constitutional anti-Democratic erosion of time-proven structure is now open for political abuse from the other side, but the reality is that the new executive powers can only be used with the rubber stamp of international banking and other corporate powers that have seized control of the system from a weak and docile public.

Why is Guantanamo still open? It must be because the anti-Christ needs a place to lock up all the patriots after he has taken their guns?

jules crittenden: Top 10 Things You Can Do to Keep Guantanamo Open
04-02-2010 07:31 AM
jupiterboy Naomi Wolf: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps | World news | The Guardian
04-02-2010 02:35 AM
kilgoretrout844 I feel bad for that monkey
04-02-2010 02:28 AM
kilgoretrout844 So because we have the right to bear arms we should walk into town hall strapped? Well maybe I should show up to town hall just yelling obsenities... F this F that...I have the right to common sense fellas. Practice it
04-01-2010 09:58 PM
skeeter Had you watched the video I posted you would have seen the supposed spitting incident. The man with his hands to his face yelling at the congressman is the one that supposedly spit. It looks to me like he's using his hands to amplify his voice like a megaphone.
The N word being chanted was only reported by the congressman and his aid. No one else in the crowd heard it. The police say they didn't hear it. The reporters say they didn't hear it. There is no supporting video or audio of the supposed event even though one guy is offering $10,000 for evidence and yet you sound like you believe it happened. Sounds to me like you have fallen for it.


Your pictures. The first is idiotic. Where's it from? Is he a Tea Party member? Did anyone from the Tea Party address him about it?
The second picture, Bush was portrayed as Hitler regularly by the left. is it somehow alright for them but not alright for conservatives? You do understand that Obama policy is far closer to Fascism than Bush right? The comparison is much easier to make since fascism is a socialist system.
I admit it's silly but it gets the left riled up which is kind of a nice change after 8 years of the same crap from them.






The third picture, This one is interesting. I actually posted that one here and got slapped for it. To me I don't see anything racist in it but after it was explained to me I can see where others might.
To me the picture is saying Obama's healthcare plan will make our system primitive by taking control from doctors and giving it to bureaucrats.
But tell me, is sexism acceptable? have you watched the smearing of Sarah Palin by the left? On this very board she has been compared to a whore and told that her only qualification for office is her status as a "MILF". IS that any less offensive?
Bush has been portrayed as a chimp any number of times by the left. IS that any less offensive just because he's white? Has the media attacked the left for their actions while Bush was in office the same way they're attacking the Tea Party now?


Firearms. The Tea Party is about the federal government over stepping it's authority, what better example than firearms laws? The federal government is explicitly restrained from restricting our right to keep and bear arms and yet there are thousands of laws on the books doing exactly that, there's an entire agency devoted to firearms restrictions. Should conservatives not address this just because the left has succeeded in making firearms politically incorrect?
The Tea Party is a conservative movement, it wouldn't be what it is if they conform to what the leftist media considers acceptable.
04-01-2010 11:26 AM
Schmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
Hundreds of thousands have gathered at rallies all over America, The only violence or arrests I've heard about at any of those events was from leftists there to disrupt it.
Try comparing that with rallies and protests put on by the left...

Oh, and can you provide a link to video of the spitting and name calling? From what I understand, no one has come up with any video which is amazing considering how much coverage that event had.
Don't fall for the leftists smear machine. There are Tea Party groups all over America. There are events held all over America so it's very easy to go see for yourself what it's all about.

I understand your point, but it doesn't change anything, and I still stand by my original comments. If I had fallen for the leftist smear machine, do you really think that I would be making comments like how I find it sad as from what I've seen/heard the tea party movement has some good ideas and points? Seems like if I'd fallen for it, then I would be writing this group off as a bunch of radical racists like the Left has tried to make them out to be . . . for the record, I do not have that view. Unfortunately, some members of the movement have made it rather easy for the Left to portray them in such a way. Do you really think that most Americans . . . as in those that the tea party movement needs to win support from if they want to get anywhere with their agenda. . . are going to take the time to "see for themselves what it's all about" after seeing the images, etc that some members of the movement are displaying? Do you really think that things like displaying the confederate flag, fire arms, and hateful signs (many with poor spelling and grammar . . . where’s Tiny when you need her!) are really going to help gain support? And are you naïve enough to think that the Left isn’t going to have a field day every time they get their hands on one of these images or stories?

I don't have pics of the spitting incident, but here are a few gems for you . . . perhaps energy would be better spent addressing the members of your movement rather than whining about the leftist smear machine.



04-01-2010 10:38 AM
debruins What I find VERY ironic is that after their Anti american government plans, they ask to be represented by the federal defender's office. shakes head
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