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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-30-2010 10:57 PM
sonofabeach I ride on the beach and backwoods roads with mine folded down but never on the streets but boy would I love to!
Every summer I take out the side roll bars so I can fold it down quickly.
06-29-2010 11:23 PM
Sf_Kilo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaultzz View Post
Tif a rock came at the windshield at the speed of a bullet then theres no way in hell that its going to stop at the windshield, th rock would still hit me anyways
Not to piss in your corn flakes but that is incorrect a standard windshield produced after 1998 is capable of stopping many different calibers of bullet fired from 10ft-20ft....

As for the windshield being down.....
Honestly its not something I would do but I don't agree that it should be illegal when delivered from the factory ready to fold down....

Then again I don't think a vehicle older than 10 years old should be permitted to bear a standard non-limited "plate", they should have a special plate and be regulated to no more than 5k miles a year(like a classic or antique) unless every component is replaced and brought up to current safety and emissions standards.... I hate being behind some POS that has rust everywhere and smells like burning oil..... oh wait those are all in Ohio JK.....
06-28-2010 05:46 PM
chucky cheese They have a song. I fought the law and the law won. Can't do nothing no more!
06-28-2010 09:10 AM
A_Mason
It all depends on the judge or the magistrate.

I've been to court more times than I care to admit and about the only thing that holds true is that the outcome almost always depends primarily on the judge or the magistrate. Some are a$$es and some are not. Some really enjoy their position of power over the little people and some actually understand what their job is. If you choose to fight it my advice is to be well prepared, be very respectful, kiss a$$ a little bit, present your side of the argument in clear concise sentences, never bring emotions into it, always refer to the police officers and the court officials as sir or mam and accept the outcome with grace. The more of a jerk you are to them the more they will jerk you around. Law enforcement and court actions always boil down to the peronalities and the egos of the people involved.
06-20-2010 12:43 PM
Vaultzz What now POPO! No Flares And No Windshield!
06-19-2010 09:06 AM
Vanimal00000 Well I'm glad everything ended for the right.
06-19-2010 08:33 AM
gpzjack You don't have to have a windshield on a bike...If you're not wearing a helmet you have to have dot approved eyewear on. Basically safety glasses.
06-19-2010 12:33 AM
Ageless Stranger Glad they tore it up Vaultzz.
06-18-2010 09:29 PM
Vaultzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaultzz View Post
(I got the ticket nulled btw )
Just to clarify I'm still going to go talk to someone more powerful at a state police station and present my case and get a final answer before I start my appeal
06-18-2010 09:28 PM
Pontiackid87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherBNmexico View Post
Not trying to be the bad guy, but I know here the cop does NOT need to be present in court. Most do because they get overtime pay for it. Not sure about your state, have to check.
PA all county's except for philly's Traffic court (1st hearing only) the arresting officer has to be present at the hearing. PA's law is and for some reason philly dosent apply to this. You have the right to face your accuser in court in this case the officer.
06-18-2010 09:26 PM
Pontiackid87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaultzz View Post
They say its illegal, following state laws theres nothing saying that I can't and If you want I'll post up numerous pictures and links to street bikes that have no windshields and if a rock came at the windshield at the speed of a bullet then theres no way in hell that its going to stop at the windshield, th rock would still hit me anyways

Well maby not as fast as a bullett but they can still shoot up pretty fast and if its a big enough one it can knock someone out if it hits ya right. I cant really speek on street bikes because i never really got into motorcycle inspection but bikes are able to get away with a lot more than a car can. From what i understand they need to have some kind of cowel on the front of the street bike to protect the instermentation there windshield is not really there for protection of the rider this is why whenever your on a bike you need to have some kind of sunglasses on. Im not a licenced inspection mechanic in PA but i have study'ed PA inspection throughley and know most of the in's and outs of it... the its a stupied rule but for any motor vehical on the road it has to have some kind windshield this is why when in PA if your in an accident if your windshield is damaged 9 times out of 10 they wont let you drive the vehical away even if it is driveable. Rule of thumb for windshield cracks and inspection is if your windshield wipers pass over the crack it fails inspection. Im not tryin to be an a$4hole here im just trying to tell you before you go into court that having your windshield down on a public roadway at least in PA is illegal lol hell if i wanted to i could get my inspection licence but by law im not allowed to inspect my own cars and i dont want to be a mechanic for a living so theres no point in getting it
06-18-2010 09:14 PM
RatherBNarizona Not trying to be the bad guy, but I know here the cop does NOT need to be present in court. Most do because they get overtime pay for it. Not sure about your state, have to check.
06-18-2010 08:08 PM
Vaultzz They say its illegal, following state laws theres nothing saying that I can't and If you want I'll post up numerous pictures and links to street bikes that have no windshields and if a rock came at the windshield at the speed of a bullet then theres no way in hell that its going to stop at the windshield, th rock would still hit me anyways
06-18-2010 08:04 PM
Pontiackid87 In pa it is illegal to have your windshield folded down. its a screwed up rule but they do strictley enforce it. reason for it being is say your behind some tractor trailer and it kicks up a rock at you. they'll come at you with the speed of a bullett and if you get knocked unconciusis (spelling) you could lose control of your jeep and cause some more damage. The sad part is there more worried about you damageing property rather than hurting yourself but yes it is illegal. and street bikes do have a windshield's but the law for a street bike it it dosent have to be clear it just has to be there to protect your instrumentation's on the bike.. take it to court and state you dident know it was illegal to have your windshield down but to answer your question on the road it is illegal.
06-18-2010 07:53 PM
GroundHawg You should be allowed. The windshield by design, stock, no modification, can fold down. It's not like a Pirate Ship Jeep Waggy with the roof and doors sawed off.

Laws suck
06-18-2010 07:00 PM
Vaultzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by N39-W120 View Post
I think you may be screwed if you take it to court.... PA Vehicle code:

4526. Safety glass.
(a) Safety glass required
.--It is unlawful to sell or to operate on any highway in this Commonwealth any vehicle manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1934, and registered in this Commonwealth unless the vehicle is equipped with safety glass or similar material, which is in compliance with regulations promulgated by the department, wherever transparent or translucent material is used in the vehicle in doors, windows, windshields and wings.

If you have a clean record your best chance is to take a copy of that, present it to the Judge, apologize for your indescression and beg for a "probation" peroid.
Thats exactly what I just talked to the cop about (I got the ticket nulled btw )

He told me that "in compliance with regulations promulgated by the department" refers to § 175.80. Inspection procedure. section F

Quote:
(2) Check glazing.

(i) Reject if any of the following apply:

(A) Approved safety glazing is not used in every windshield, window and wing.

(B) A sign, poster or other material whose design prevents a driver from seeing through the material, obstructs, obscures or impairs the driver’s clear view of the highway or an intersecting highway. Under FMVSS No. 205, this restriction does not apply to the rear side windows, rear wings or rear window of trucks or multi-purpose passenger vehicles.

(C) A sign, poster or other material, whose design prevents a driver from seeing through the material, extends more than 3 1/2 inches from the lowest exposed portion of the rear window, rear side windows or rear wings of a passenger car.

(D) A vehicle displays a sticker other than those prescribed under § 175.67(c) (relating to glazing), or displays a parking sticker in a location described in § 175.67(d).

(E) Glass is shattered or broken or has exposed sharp edges.

(F) The windshield is removed.
Now the windshield wasn't removed, it was simply folded. I believe that I could fight this is court if necessary, and I do plan to get legal authority to fold my windshield
06-18-2010 06:54 PM
N39-W120 I think you may be screwed if you take it to court.... PA Vehicle code:

4526. Safety glass.
(a) Safety glass required
.--It is unlawful to sell or to operate on any highway in this Commonwealth any vehicle manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1934, and registered in this Commonwealth unless the vehicle is equipped with safety glass or similar material, which is in compliance with regulations promulgated by the department, wherever transparent or translucent material is used in the vehicle in doors, windows, windshields and wings.

If you have a clean record your best chance is to take a copy of that, present it to the Judge, apologize for your indescression and beg for a "probation" peroid.
06-18-2010 06:49 PM
GroundHawg I don't think you did anything wrong. I hate laws like this. Like we actually need the state to protect us from ourselves. Vault did nothing wrong. That's not going to hurt anyone. He even took an extra precaution to wear safety glasses.

PA is seriously a bunch of street Nazis. No lie, I'd tell them to shove that ticket up their a**.

No don't. I did that with a wheelin' ticket...actually it was criminal trespassing and destruction of property. I went to court, I wanted to fight it saying I was singled out for using a Jeep, but little quads and bikes run the trail, as do hikers. They don't get tickets. But I do? WTF? Apparently the cop said I was rude and hostile, whatever that means. I called BS and was upset and swearing at the cops, but I wasn't hostile.

In a nutshell, I didn't even get to talk he did knock off my destruction citation and I paid $100 for trespassing. Between that and skateboarding back in the day, I've gotten around 6 or 7 of those tickets.

It's wrong IMO, but I think you're f'ed.

Don't feel bad though. PA's going to nail me for no mirrors sooner or later
06-18-2010 06:13 PM
domeshots next time just wear a full racing helmet, tear off's, and a mouth guard. i would love to those pigs try to give you a ticket in that get up


O and take a picture and put it on WF
06-18-2010 06:05 PM
tiny terror The void is most likely so the ticket cannot be scanned and changed.
06-18-2010 05:38 PM
birdhunter I have heard of people in your state
getting tickets for going doorless.
Something about orig safety equipment
They could spin that as the windshield
being down also
By your reasoning motorcycles would
need seatbelts???
06-18-2010 05:26 PM
Vaultzz I actually have the documentation in my glove box, but he cop didn't ask for it
06-18-2010 05:18 PM
medic2936 Just a small thought I had. If you do take it to court and you take the safety glasses remember to bring some type of documentation to prove they are DOT approved safety glasses. It might help.
06-18-2010 04:52 PM
Vaultzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff@Bestop View Post
Hey - I'm not trying to talk you out of fighting this. I think everyone should fight tickets, just to see how the system works. Just to exercise your rights. Just for the civics lesson.

Just trying to be a devil's advocate, and make your arguments better.
Completely understandable
06-18-2010 04:50 PM
Geoff@Bestop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaultzz View Post
1. I believe the motorcycle argument is solid. Why should one privately owned street legal vehicle be allowed to ignore a state law and another should be forced to follow it? Thats discrimination.
The best that argument will get you is a pat on the back and a chance to appeal. Local courts do not make decisions on the validity or constitutionality of a law. They just say "that's the law, you broke it." Appeals courts make decisions on validity of laws.

Quote:
2. I've been through all the PA state laws regarding vehicles, even if Chrysler advised to not use the vehicle on road with the windshield folded theres no law prohibiting it
That's a good argument. But there may be an over-riding "unsafe vehicle" regulation that the officer is using. In other words, there's no specific law saying I can't drive with a milk crate instead of a seat. But it's an unsafe vehicle violation, and everyone knows it.

Quote:
3. Small details aside, the ticked has a huge faded VOID written on it
I can't answer that at all. I'd just be surprised to find an office who made a mistake like that. And I can't imagine why anyone would have "voided" ticket books. I'm thinking there's a reason for it, and it ain't "get out of jail free."

Hey - I'm not trying to talk you out of fighting this. I think everyone should fight tickets, just to see how the system works. Just to exercise your rights. Just for the civics lesson.

Just trying to be a devil's advocate, and make your arguments better.
06-18-2010 04:41 PM
Vaultzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff@Bestop View Post
Vaultzz:
1. I do NOT think your motorcycle argument is all that compelling. If you are correct, then it just means they need to start arresting motorcyclists, not let you off the hook. It's a little bit like saying "but all the other kids jump off the bridge...."

2. Also, unfortunately, I believe that Jeep has said for years that the windshield should not be folded down when the vehicle is on a public road. So the vehicle design argument may not work all that well either.

3. The "fine print" argument about how the ticket is written and the way it's printed may be tough to argue as well. Judges get really ticked off about people trying to use small details as a way to avoid the ticket.

4. How big is the city/county? In my experience, if it's a bigger location, they will plea-bargain you out to something really quickly, mostly to save time. I've had speeding tickets reduced to "unsafe equipment," (no points, about 1/3 the fine) just because the cop wrote "polite guy" on the ticket. And to keep me from going before the judge and wasting time.

Good Luck
1. I believe the motorcycle argument is solid. Why should one privately owned street legal vehicle be allowed to ignore a state law and another should be forced to follow it? Thats discrimination.

2. I've been through all the PA state laws regarding vehicles, even if Chrysler advised to not use the vehicle on road with the windshield folded theres no law prohibiting it

3. Small details aside, the ticked has a huge faded VOID written on it

4. I'm not sure how big the county is I'll have to find out
06-18-2010 04:05 PM
JIMBOX Heh Heh, if I was the judge, I'd just hang ya !!

JIMBO
06-18-2010 04:00 PM
Geoff@Bestop Vaultzz:
I do NOT think your motorcycle argument is all that compelling. If you are correct, then it just means they need to start arresting motorcyclists, not let you off the hook. It's a little bit like saying "but all the other kids jump off the bridge...."

Also, unfortunately, I believe that Jeep has said for years that the windshield should not be folded down when the vehicle is on a public road. So the vehicle design argument may not work all that well either.

The "fine print" argument about how the ticket is written and the way it's printed may be tough to argue as well. Judges get really ticked off about people trying to use small details as a way to avoid the ticket.

How big is the city/county? In my experience, if it's a bigger location, they will plea-bargain you out to something really quickly, mostly to save time. I've had speeding tickets reduced to "unsafe equipment," (no points, about 1/3 the fine) just because the cop wrote "polite guy" on the ticket. And to keep me from going before the judge and wasting time.

Good Luck
06-18-2010 03:59 PM
Twitch Boy IANAL, but I'd say go to court.

First off, if the cop doesn't show up, you walk, and a lot of times they have better things to do with their time than sit in court and haggle over a ticket.

Overall, it sounds to me like he was unsure of the situation and decided to write the ticket just to keep up appearances for his superiors - possibly a new guy trying to do things by the book to look good. If this is the case and he didn't really care about the issue, he might just no-show or concede the ticket once he sees your evidence.

This is what the court system is for - to interpret stuff like this.
06-18-2010 03:54 PM
drivebytruckerz He should have given you a warning. He was probably meeting a quota.
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