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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-03-2014 10:06 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MnJK View Post
Great thread! Have a smallish lift right now (2.25" - 2.5" net lift). I do mostly trail riding and rock crawling so would go with CAs for clearance rather than drop brackets. Given the small lift, may not need much if any adjustment but am very curious now so will measure the angles! Been reading through some other threads to understand UCAs and LCAs and which to do based on lift size. Am curious what your thoughts are on these comments: 1. The upper control arms help to correct pinion angle due to most companies arms are longer than stock arms to begin with. So with the uppers being adj. you will be threading them out to increase the angle. If you were to do the lowers you would be turning in the theads in trying to make the arms shorter which with most arms will not have enough adjustment. 2. If you do need a pair of arms for the rear to adjust for pinion angle, go with rear uppers. If you go with lowers, you will have to shorten them, decreasing your wheelbase and moving your tire closer to the pinch seam. With the uppers, you will be moving your axle further away from the pinch seam. Now, it is probably a nominal amount of distance because you are rotating the axle rather than moving it, but better to push it away than pull it in.


In the front you're adjusting for caster. Longer lowers or shorter uppers. I know MC uses front uppers in their basic kit to adjust caster. The upper arms are going to be shorter than stock.

You pretty much got the rear correct.
One thing .. Uppers alone won't have any affect on wheelbase.

Most aftermarket arms are stock in length with 1" or so adjustment either way.
(Example) @ 3-4" of lift ... all it takes is 1/2"-3/4" to position the axle and set the angles.
RK moves the axle back 1". Their rear arms are longer. currie/synergy are stock length +/- 1" or so.
11-03-2014 09:03 PM
MnJK Great thread!

Have a smallish lift right now (2.25" - 2.5" net lift). I do mostly trail riding and rock crawling so would go with CAs for clearance rather than drop brackets. Given the small lift, may not need much if any adjustment but am very curious now so will measure the angles!

Been reading through some other threads to understand UCAs and LCAs and which to do based on lift size. Am curious what your thoughts are on these comments:

1. The upper control arms help to correct pinion angle due to most companies arms are longer than stock arms to begin with. So with the uppers being adj. you will be threading them out to increase the angle. If you were to do the lowers you would be turning in the theads in trying to make the arms shorter which with most arms will not have enough adjustment.

2. If you do need a pair of arms for the rear to adjust for pinion angle, go with rear uppers. If you go with lowers, you will have to shorten them, decreasing your wheelbase and moving your tire closer to the pinch seam. With the uppers, you will be moving your axle further away from the pinch seam. Now, it is probably a nominal amount of distance because you are rotating the axle rather than moving it, but better to push it away than pull it in.
08-28-2014 12:19 PM
kjeeper10 No .. The flat circles are just easier to get a quick measurement.
True pinion angle is measured off the flange area/output yoke.
08-28-2014 11:52 AM
DOMINUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Flange area/u-cap is the best area. That will give you true pinion angle. From that number -caster.
That's the area you had circled in your pics correct?
08-28-2014 08:57 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMINUS View Post
I'm going back on Saturday to finalize payments but I will ask him to put the angle finder directly on the pumpkin.
Flange area/u-cap is the best area. That will give you true pinion angle. From that number -caster.
08-28-2014 07:51 AM
DOMINUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
8/9 puts your driveshaft at a extreme angle. The higher the lift ... It's worse.
Measuring at the lower C is not accurate. That area is cast and not a machined area.
Fwiw .. back when I was running 6* caster and wrecked my front DS. The lower C's measured 6 on the passenger and 8 on the driver side.
It's possible the measurement he got is wrong. I would still confirm. You don't want to cause harm to your DS/tranny.

Take a side shot of your pinion output/DS
8 should be easily confirmed
I'm going back on Saturday to finalize payments but I will ask him to put the angle finder directly on the pumpkin.
08-28-2014 05:33 AM
kjeeper10 8/9 puts your driveshaft at a extreme angle. The higher the lift ... It's worse.
Measuring at the lower C is not accurate. That area is cast and not a machined area.
Fwiw .. back when I was running 6* caster and wrecked my front DS. The lower C's measured 6 on the passenger and 8 on the driver side.
It's possible the measurement he got is wrong. I would still confirm. You don't want to cause harm to your DS/tranny.

Take a side shot of your pinion output/DS
8 should be easily confirmed
08-28-2014 01:16 AM
MOPWR2U I don't think your frame is bent at all. The frame on a JK is super strong, more so than most truck frames, in fact. Centering your axles will only require track bar adjustments, and correcting caster will only require adjusting your control arms.
08-28-2014 01:05 AM
DOMINUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax4499 View Post
Like on a frame machine? I agree 1/4 is a lot. I would do 1/4 on a log truck. Stick with an 1/8 and keep an eye on tire wear.
Well not exactly a frame machine but he said he'll use ratchet straps to pull stuff while he adjusts everything. I don't think my frame is that bent. I've only been off roading 3x at Rausch and it has always been the 101 course. Easy stuff. No frame twisting articulation going on there.
08-28-2014 01:01 AM
DOMINUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I would not do 1/4 with toe. That will literary chew the tires right up.
Man ... Hope everything works out for ya.
Ok I'll tell him to leave it at 1/8". I noticed that he didn't use the pumpkin to get the caster. He used a spot right on the inside of each wheel that to my untrained eye seems to correlate to the pumpkin. Are 8 & 9 even feasible numbers for caster? If these members are true how come in not experiencing worse effects of bad caster?
08-27-2014 06:59 PM
madmax4499
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post

I would not do 1/4 with toe. That will literary chew the tires right up.
Man ... Hope everything works out for ya.
Like on a frame machine? I agree 1/4 is a lot. I would do 1/4 on a log truck. Stick with an 1/8 and keep an eye on tire wear.
08-27-2014 03:56 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMINUS View Post
Kjeeper10 I found a guy locally that does everything to Jeeps. Turns out my Jeep is all twisted LOL. Looking at it with the naked eye it looks good but the measuring tape tells a whole different story. The front axle is off to the left and the rear is off to the right. My caster on the left is at 8 and on the right is at 9. Funny thing is he drove it and said that it drives fine for being so off. I guess the front is somehow canceling out the rear and everything is incorrectly correct LOL. He also said that my toe should be more aggressive with 37's because they tend to want to do their own thing. He suggested 1/4" toe in. Anyway at the end of the month I go on vacation and I'm leaving it with him while I get some much needed rest. I'll be doing 5.13 gears, Reels 1310 drive shafts and while its there he'll pull, twist, tug and yank everything into spec as far as caster, toe, alignment and what not.
I would not do 1/4 with toe. That will literary chew the tires right up.
Man ... Hope everything works out for ya.
08-27-2014 02:07 PM
DOMINUS Kjeeper10 I found a guy locally that does everything to Jeeps. Turns out my Jeep is all twisted LOL. Looking at it with the naked eye it looks good but the measuring tape tells a whole different story. The front axle is off to the left and the rear is off to the right. My caster on the left is at 8 and on the right is at 9. Funny thing is he drove it and said that it drives fine for being so off. I guess the front is somehow canceling out the rear and everything is incorrectly correct LOL. He also said that my toe should be more aggressive with 37's because they tend to want to do their own thing. He suggested 1/4" toe in. Anyway at the end of the month I go on vacation and I'm leaving it with him while I get some much needed rest. I'll be doing 5.13 gears, Reels 1310 drive shafts and while its there he'll pull, twist, tug and yank everything into spec as far as caster, toe, alignment and what not.
08-25-2014 05:46 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax4499 View Post
I went with the EVO lower and the Synergy upper. My friends over at Northridge had them in stock.
Nice .. I almost said to try NR
08-25-2014 05:43 PM
madmax4499 I went with the EVO lower and the Synergy upper. My friends over at Northridge had them in stock.
08-25-2014 04:24 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax4499 View Post
I think it is 2" but you gain 1.5 ground clearance.
Gotcha,
You have to look at shocks specs, bump stop height. You many or may not need the uppers,
08-25-2014 03:29 PM
madmax4499 I think it is 2" but you gain 1.5 ground clearance.
08-25-2014 03:14 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax4499 View Post
looks like synergy is the only people who make an upper relocation to match the lower. they are out of stock at this time. not sure what to do now.
Doesn't the evo only raise 1-1.5" ?
08-25-2014 03:10 PM
madmax4499 looks like synergy is the only people who make an upper relocation to match the lower. they are out of stock at this time. not sure what to do now.
08-24-2014 10:03 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax4499 View Post
3 7/8 shaft for up travel.
Ok that's good
08-24-2014 09:44 PM
madmax4499 3 7/8 shaft for up travel.
08-24-2014 09:07 PM
kjeeper10 RK is on WF now .. Not settled yet but here.
Will see what they say... My guess is they're going to look into your pinion angle.

One more question .. How much shock shaft is showing at ride height ?
08-24-2014 09:05 PM
madmax4499 Thanks i will look into it. I was going to do control arm skids anyway.
08-24-2014 08:35 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax4499 View Post
I did think about the shock relocation brackets. im using the 3-4 lift fox shocks with 3" bumps. I was afraid if i raise the lower mount i might bottom the shocks. What about RK lower spring relo's like they put on the 1.5 kits? or just moving the stockers forward?
You could do that.
08-24-2014 08:16 PM
madmax4499 I did think about the shock relocation brackets. im using the 3-4 lift fox shocks with 3" bumps. I was afraid if i raise the lower mount i might bottom the shocks. What about RK lower spring relo's like they put on the 1.5 kits? or just moving the stockers forward?
08-24-2014 07:41 PM
kjeeper10 Springs are still bowed btw. You should look into something like these
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005TT...&robot_redir=1

About your contact, I've seen many guys shave the bracket down. But yours looks really close.
Here's a quote I found over on Freaks

"" Bilsteins never hit that bracket but I've had it happen myself with Fox 2.0s on my two door and RRDs on the four door. I took a flap wheel to the bracket once I verified the axle was centered""

Rolling the axle up def puts the shock body closer to the bracket. -1 pinion angle is pretty good. I'm not sure if trying for -2 or -3 will change much.

Your lowers are 3/4 over stock. I don't think they will go any shorter.
Something like this might help too
http://northridge4x4.com/shop/off-ro...skids-evo-1038
08-24-2014 07:21 PM
madmax4499 the rear is 11* nose up
08-24-2014 07:20 PM
madmax4499 side to side centering is what i was talking. within the wheel well is fine.
08-24-2014 07:05 PM
madmax4499
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post

Max,
Do you have a pic of your rear shock contact ?
I sAw your post on JKO

How long are your rear lowers, if it were me .. I would have those lowers as short as I can get them. Then adjust uppers for pinion.
A lot of people have issues setting up their rear x-factor arms.

Just to give you a idea. To center the axle in the wheel at 3-4" of lift. 1/2 is all that's needed. The 1-1.5 is to allow a 37" tire to fit without trimming the pitch seem. RK will custom cut arms witch I mentioned above your post and I plan on doing.

Take some pics if you can, maybe I can help.
Rear lowers are 20 5/16 I will take some pics right now. Thanks.
08-24-2014 07:04 PM
madmax4499
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post

Do you know what your lowers are set to ?
I'm thinking one full turn but you don't want to bow the coils with too much length.
23 1/8 is pretty common. I've seen as much as 23 1/4 but that's pushing it.
If you're already in this Range ... I would adjust the uppers in.
Yes 23 1/8 is what I have.
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