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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-07-2014 10:34 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jutgin View Post
True I need to do that, but would it go away like it does when I go down to 3.6 caster if the shaft was not balanced?
Possible. A perfectly --and I mean perfectly-- balanced shaft will be able to take on more misalignment at the u-joint.
That's why some people can get away with 5* misalignment and some can't.
04-07-2014 10:29 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Id find a driveline shop and check balance. Not worth chasing your tail if there's a issue with the shaft itself.
True I need to do that, but would it go away like it does when I go down to 3.6 caster if the shaft was not balanced?
04-07-2014 10:27 PM
kjeeper10 Id find a driveline shop and check balance. Not worth chasing your tail if there's a issue with the shaft itself.
04-07-2014 10:22 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
You can remove the shaft a drive without it.
Good way to diagnose vibes too.

What shaft do you have ?

That's what sucks with cam bolts. To remove them you need to weld build the mount holes.

IMO Toe can cause a wandering feeling too.
Rough country shaft, dont know what company they use.
I removed the shaft and drove, vibes were gone.
Toe was good today at the alignment shop.
04-07-2014 10:15 PM
kjeeper10 You can remove the shaft a drive without it.
Good way to diagnose vibes too.

What shaft do you have ?

That's what sucks with cam bolts. To remove them you need to weld build the mount holes.

IMO Toe can cause a wandering feeling too.
04-07-2014 10:03 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Dam it.. Wifi kicked out ughhh
Let's try this again

4.6 is stock ... 1.4 is right for pinion angle.

0* at the pinion would put the axle at 6* caster and guarantee vibes. Assuming you mean 0* between pinion/driveshaft ?
The front shaft is not under load. Generally u-joints don't like more then 5* . Some get away with it and some don't.

I don't know what you tried. The cam bolts fix caster but add to pinion angle. I see a lot of guys running a 3/3 split but w/ steering a little light.

Did you run it before the cam bolts and still get vibes ? Possible shaft is un-balanced ?
How about toe spec ?

The JK sucks with only 6* separation. A 3/3 split should work. Doesn't guarantee the greatest handling though. Shouldn't be all over the road.

My thinking. If we ran both uppers and lowers pushing the axle out a bit. The angle of the shaft would be reduced, letting you run more separation.
Perfect analogy.
Stand at the base of a mountain and run a string all the way to the peak (this is your driveshaft)
Now stand a mile back and do the same. The angle of that string is reduced no matter what angle your standing at (caster)
Is 1/2 added to CA length going to help ? Sometimes enough to help balance the angles

Good luck
It all makes sense, I just wish I knew exactly what to do before just throwing more money and parts and time into it. I'm in a crunch as I have to drive 600 miles to Ft Eustis on Saturday.
Before the cam bolts the caster was 3.6 and was wandering like crazy. So I used them and now have vibes, it either wanders or has vibes.
I'm considering the CA drop brackets, but dont know if that would help or not.
04-07-2014 09:50 PM
kjeeper10
Jeep Jk, Caster and lifting.

Dam it.. Wifi kicked out ughhh
Let's try this again

4.6 is stock ... 1.4 is right for pinion angle.

0* at the pinion would put the axle at 6* caster and guarantee vibes. Assuming you mean 0* between pinion/driveshaft ?
The front shaft is not under load. Generally u-joints don't like more then 5* . Some get away with it and some don't.

I don't know what you tried. The cam bolts fix caster but add to pinion angle. I see a lot of guys running a 3/3 split but w/ steering a little light.

Did you run it before the cam bolts and still get vibes ? Possible shaft is un-balanced ?
How about toe spec ?

The JK sucks with only 6* separation. A 3/3 split should work. Doesn't guarantee the greatest handling though. Shouldn't be all over the road.

My thinking. If we ran both uppers and lowers pushing the axle out a bit. The angle of the shaft would be reduced, letting you run more separation.
Perfect analogy.
Stand at the base of a mountain and run a string all the way to the peak (this is your driveshaft)
Now stand a mile back and do the same. The angle of that string is reduced no matter what angle your standing at (caster)
Is 1/2 added to CA length going to help ? Sometimes enough to help balance the angles

Good luck
04-07-2014 09:17 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Some questions for ya

Are you running control arms ?
How about a double carden shaft ?
Are you trying to balance caster/pinion and can't find that "happy" spot ?
What are your currant specs ?
Yes I have the fixed CA's the kit came with, and prob no good but I added cam bolts trying to dial it in.
Yes I added a double cardon shaft.
Yes trying to balance and can't find the sweet spot.
Just got another alignment today and caster is 4.6
No clue what the pinion angle is cause I can't find a reliable way to find it (unless 6-4.6=1.4?)
I assume with double cardon I need 0 degree at the pinion?
04-07-2014 09:07 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jutgin View Post
Well this has been a great read but I am still unsure of where to got next to fix my angles. I'm either wandering all over the road or have DS vibes. 2013 JKU 3.5" RC lift
Some questions for ya

Are you running control arms ?
How about a double carden shaft ?
Are you trying to balance caster/pinion and can't find that "happy" spot ?
What are your currant specs ?
04-07-2014 08:09 PM
jutgin By the way does anyone know if the fact that I still have the stock 32" tires on is effecting this issue?
04-07-2014 07:42 PM
jutgin Well this has been a great read but I am still unsure of where to got next to fix my angles. I'm either wandering all over the road or have DS vibes.
2013 JKU 3.5" RC lift
03-08-2014 10:45 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dogger View Post
Well Ken, did it warm up enough for you to pull your top and doors? I have mine off, and almost got blown out of my Wrangler today. 81 degrees here, but very windy......
Not that warm yet. 41* but soon to drop again and snow.
Daylight savings time ... 1 extra hour of COLD
03-08-2014 10:38 PM
Old Dogger ^^^Well Ken, did it warm up enough for you to pull your top and doors today?
I have mine off, and almost got blown out of my Wrangler today.
81 degrees here, but very windy......
03-08-2014 10:04 PM
kjeeper10 Good ol' TF videos for ya
03-08-2014 09:23 PM
SteedGun
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
the jeep not nearly as confusing but good link.

Here's a vid from Teraflex
TeraFlex Product Highlight: JK Wrangler Rear Trackbar Bracket(1954777) - YouTube
The video was a bit goofy but really well done. Again, more good information on roll center and the bracket that I have on order.

I was up in the back of the Jeep today replacing factory suspension bolts so I took a good look at the TB position and I think this bracket is going to help a lot.

Thanks again.
03-08-2014 04:57 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteedGun View Post
Kudos to kjeeper10 for all the advice and information. I especially appreciate the PMs on roll center and rear track bar bracket. I now have one on order and I also found this article that describes roll center very well and matches to what kjeeper10 has taught me. Understanding and Tuning Roll Center - R/C Tech Forums
the jeep not nearly as confusing but good link.

Here's a vid from Teraflex
http://youtu.be/AKUoyukFhoo
03-07-2014 08:19 PM
SteedGun Kudos to kjeeper10 for all the advice and information. I especially appreciate the PMs on roll center and rear track bar bracket. I now have one on order and I also found this article that describes roll center very well and matches to what kjeeper10 has taught me.

Understanding and Tuning Roll Center - R/C Tech Forums
03-07-2014 03:40 PM
kjeeper10 With the fixed lca's caster is set depending on lift height. The degrees are shown per inch lift there in the link.
Toe will change but ever so slightly. If you already had it aligned and toe set, you should be fine without another alignment. It's up to you whether you want adjustable arms or not. For what you are after, the fixed should work out just fine.
03-07-2014 03:33 PM
SteedGun Details:

2014 Rubicon X
OME 2619 front coils
OME 2618 back coils
OME Nitro shocks front/back
Warn Zeon 10-S winch, hoop, lights (added weight)
Best I can measure the lift was around 2.25" but I am not sure if the X already had some lift over a stock Rubicon.

So, the Synergy CAs should be o.k. right or should I get the adjustable ones (much more money)?

Next very dumb question. If I replace the LCAs will I need to get the alignment redone?
03-07-2014 03:12 PM
kjeeper10 Yep those will work, But don't go by listed coil height. What's your actual height ? You caster is pretty low and I would assume 3-4"over stock height.

Edit: ok never mind. Those arms come only in one size. The caster/lift height note is a good reference.
03-07-2014 02:39 PM
SteedGun Rather than increase the caster with brackets what about these longer LCAs. I just had my 2014 JKU aligned and the caster measured 2.1* and 2.6* on 2.25" lift from OME coils and shocks only. Right now it drives o.k. but I would love to improve it if I can add these. They claim this will get the caster back to 5.5 or so with a 2" lift. What is too high for a caster reading?

Also, is it o.k. to add the front LCAs now and later do the back? I assume yes as they are not related but I have also made other mistakes so far.

Synergy Manufacturing 8047 - Synergy Manufacturing Front Lower High Clearance Fixed Length Control Arms for 07-14 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec
02-05-2014 05:07 PM
kjeeper10 Yes !! that's the key "actual height" although RK did lower the new front coils by 3/8 or so compared to the first gen.
You won't find anybody running close to 6* with 4" of lift. Like I mentioned in my post. 3/3 or even 2/4 (now this is with a double carden) you do have a little more leeway with the stock DS, but risk CV failure.
6* is where I was at with TF lowers and my shaft went bad.
02-05-2014 04:13 PM
MAG00 No, I don't have an aftermarket bumper or winch yet. On the list though. ;-)

I haven't had a chance to get back under there and take one of the LCAs loose to see if I can shorten it any yet. From what I remember and can see there isn't any real visible threads showing so if I can shorten them any at all, it will only be maybe a half (180*) turn. The krawler joint looks pretty symmetrical in that the protruding sleeve looks like its the same length on either side, so I don't think getting only a half turn will misalign anything.

I also e-mailed with Jason at Krawl-Offroad.com whom I purchased the lift from. He said that, "RK is saying that a castor of anything less that 6* is normal for this setup. So with you being at 5.9*, we should be good. That is for the 1.5” and the 2.5” lifts." My only concern on that is if they are basing that comment on only 2.5" of lift. Although this comment was after I sent him all of my info including lift height.

I think I am still going to:
1. re-check what numbers I get by doing the angle measurement off of both circles on the housing
2. try to get a measurement off of the pinion flange
3. take one of the LCAs loose and see if I can turn it (shorten) it any.

I figure it can't hurt anything, right? Who knows...things may have settled in some since first putting it on and now driving it around some.

It seems to drive just fine both in town, on the interstate and on a real beat up city road.
02-05-2014 03:51 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG00 View Post
Yes. From the RK instructions..... 2.5" Front Lower Control Arm Assembled Length = 23 1/8" Also, I did a lift height measurement on the front based upon a diagram showing stock measurement taken at the shock tower and also taken at the spring perches. Based upon those measurements, I ended up with 3 3/8" of lift on the front.
I saw that
Do you have a bumper/winch ?

231/8 Is common if that's what they list.
02-05-2014 03:48 PM
MAG00 Yes. From the RK instructions..... 2.5" Front Lower Control Arm Assembled Length = 23 1/8"

Also, I did a lift height measurement on the front based upon a diagram showing stock measurement taken at the shock tower and also taken at the spring perches. Based upon those measurements, I ended up with 3 3/8" of lift on the front.
02-05-2014 03:29 PM
kjeeper10 Did either of you find measurements for the lCA's ?
02-03-2014 08:45 PM
JerryJeepster I'd look it up but not at home for a few days. I know I measured more than twice and then my brother double checked my work.
02-03-2014 06:47 PM
kjeeper10 What is the measurement btw ?


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
02-03-2014 06:46 PM
MAG00
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryJeepster View Post
Are you sure you measured them correctly before torqueing the jam nuts? I have the same kit on a 2 door and with rk's measurements the castor was dead on. Each side should have the same amount of threads showing. Maybe I got lucky???
Pretty sure. I measured twice before installing. Center of bolt hole to center of bolt hole using the measurement for 4drs give in RKs instructions.
02-03-2014 06:33 PM
JerryJeepster Are you sure you measured them correctly before torqueing the jam nuts? I have the same kit on a 2 door and with rk's measurements the castor was dead on. Each side should have the same amount of threads showing. Maybe I got lucky???
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