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Topic Review (Newest First)
Yesterday 08:04 PM
kjeeper10 Replied
Yesterday 07:54 PM
Barmanvarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Personal preference. The brackets are fine up to 4.5". You gain clearance with tire size. I know a few guys running rock monsters on 37's + running drop brackets. I just installed upper arms at stock length and soon deciding on a lower. I may cheat wheelbase a little but leave the angles the sAme. Yoo dig
I dig.

Not upgrading tires. Sticking with 35s for now.

Just want a little more lift and personal preference is to ditch the drops for adjustables.

Still in the planning phase right now.
Yesterday 07:48 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn View Post
It did handle a lot better but won't i want adjustable if I go up to 3.5? I like to get the clearance back and these drop brackets aren't the sexist thing in the world. Ya dig? I have a thread started to plan out my upgrade. Am waiting on feedback right now.
Personal preference. The brackets are fine up to 4.5". You gain clearance with tire size. I know a few guys running rock monsters on 37's + running drop brackets.
I just installed upper arms at stock length and soon deciding on a lower. I may cheat wheelbase a little but leave the angles the sAme.

Yoo dig
Yesterday 07:43 PM
Barmanvarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
You have the Rancho's right ? What's good about them .. You will drop some caster the higher you go. I'm at 4" and pinion angle is 1.5-2* (4 caster) 5-6 is not good at 4+ inches of lift height. You're really pushing the angle of the drive shaft. I bet the jeep handled a lot better ?
It did handle a lot better but won't i want adjustable if I go up to 3.5? I like to get the clearance back and these drop brackets aren't the sexist thing in the world. Ya dig?

I have a thread started to plan out my upgrade. Am waiting on feedback right now.
Yesterday 07:19 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn View Post
Ok. Good. Figured I'd get to learning this as I hope to add adjustables soon in advance of going up to 3.5. Thanks Ken.
You have the Rancho's right ?
What's good about them .. You will drop some caster the higher you go. I'm at 4" and pinion angle is 1.5-2* (4 caster)
5-6 is not good at 4+ inches of lift height. You're really pushing the angle of the drive shaft.

I bet the jeep handled a lot better ?
Yesterday 07:13 PM
Barmanvarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
= 5* caster. That's about normal for TF 2.5 and Rancho brackets. AEV = 4.5 +/- 4 to 5 degrees is perfect.
Ok. Good.

Figured I'd get to learning this as I hope to add adjustables soon in advance of going up to 3.5.

Thanks Ken.
Yesterday 07:10 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn View Post
Finally got off my lazy butt. Running a 2.5 TF with the control arm drop brackets. If I did it correctly, I'm showing barely if even 1 degree of pinion. Discuss.
= 5* caster. That's about normal for TF 2.5 and Rancho brackets. AEV = 4.5 +/-
4 to 5 degrees is perfect.
Yesterday 07:00 PM
Barmanvarn Finally got off my lazy butt.

Running a 2.5 TF with the control arm drop brackets. If I did it correctly, I'm showing barely if even 1 degree of pinion.

Discuss.
Yesterday 12:43 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciphershort View Post
If I can't do both the track bar will definitely be priority for sure.
Yesterday 12:23 PM
ciphershort If I can't do both the track bar will definitely be priority for sure.
Yesterday 12:19 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciphershort View Post
Thanks. I figured it was spot on but its always good to get a second opinion. Hopefully I'll be able to get my front LCAs and front track bar this year to give me some better handling! Funny you should mention the 9/16 bolt upgrade. I actually had a nut randomly disappear from my rear axle-side LCA and could not for the life of me find a replacement. A quick search on the bolt quickly lead me to all sorts of stuff on the 9/16 bolts. So I bought one to replace it at a local Fastenal. I felt a lot better about it than the crappy factory bolt. I should have bought all new bolts to begin with and I think my philosophy will be now if I remove a factory bolt, replace it with a new one.
The front track bar is so important because of Death wobble.
Yesterday 12:12 PM
ciphershort Thanks. I figured it was spot on but its always good to get a second opinion. Hopefully I'll be able to get my front LCAs and front track bar this year to give me some better handling!

Funny you should mention the 9/16 bolt upgrade. I actually had a nut randomly disappear from my rear axle-side LCA and could not for the life of me find a replacement. A quick search on the bolt quickly lead me to all sorts of stuff on the 9/16 bolts. So I bought one to replace it at a local Fastenal. I felt a lot better about it than the crappy factory bolt. I should have bought all new bolts to begin with and I think my philosophy will be now if I remove a factory bolt, replace it with a new one.
Yesterday 10:45 AM
kjeeper10 5/8 longer then stock sets the arms about 23-231/8 which is perfect. Their response is spot on. You should look into the 9/16 bolt upgrade if you haven't done so. Northridge 4x4 sells a kit that supplies all nuts/bolts and washers for lower CA's and both TB's. 2nd option would be replacing just the two front TB bolts along with your track bar.

Tires have little do do with caster angle. You do want to make sure toe in is set properly. Too much or not enough can cause similar symptoms.

Thanks for the props
Yesterday 10:23 AM
ciphershort So this thread has done me more good than probably any thread I've read since I installed my lift. So props to kjeeper10 for sure.

With all that being said, I installed a TF 2.5 coil lift on my JKU about 6 months ago. Since then, I've had flighty steering. I can compensate for it so it isn't terrible to the point of not being able to drive the thing but it makes me uneasy sometimes. So I did some reading and decided to look into front LCAs and a front Track bar. I emailed TF to ask them about measurements to correct my issue and this is what they said:

Quote:
Some Jeeps will get a little flighty do to the loss of steering caster. Front lower adjustable control arms #1653700 will correct the caster issue. You will adjust the arms about 5/8” – 3/ 4” longer that the stock arms, this will bring back the caster angle. I would definitely recommend our HD forged front track bar #1753418. This will allow you to center the front axle, and it’s strength will resist shimmy or death wobble. Both of those additions will make a positive difference in the handling of your Jeep.
I assume TF knows there stuff but is this about the LCA length people have found that is needed to correct caster? Now currently, I'm running the tires that came with my JK (265/70r17...roughly 31.6x10.4) but am looking to go to either 33s or 35s (if I can afford the re-gear) in the not so distant future. Will tire size affect the measurements or not? It doesn't seem like it would in my head but all this angle crap makes my head hurt so I just figured I'd ask.

Thanks!
07-10-2014 11:52 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMINUS View Post
You've been a great help. Thanks much. I still can't believe how much better it drives now. I just wish I got the initial printout before he corrected everything. I'll have to check the ball joint maybe this weekend.
Good luck man
07-10-2014 11:40 AM
DOMINUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Toe out of range was prob your issue. Besides caster (adjustable CA's) to is the only adjustable spec.
I assume your ball joint(s) are worn. Not enough to cause issues but show bad camber in the left wheel. Remember, you have dual Fox stabs up front. Any little vibe/shimmy is prob being masked.

Checking your ball joints is very easy. Just jack each tire up 3-4" and pry up with a shovel/pry bar. You will hear a clanking noise. And If you look at where the boot meats the knuckle .. You will see movement too.
You've been a great help. Thanks much. I still can't believe how much better it drives now. I just wish I got the initial printout before he corrected everything. I'll have to check the ball joint maybe this weekend.
07-10-2014 11:18 AM
kjeeper10 Toe out of range was prob your issue. Besides caster (adjustable CA's) to is the only adjustable spec.
I assume your ball joint(s) are worn. Not enough to cause issues but show bad camber in the left wheel. Remember, you have dual Fox stabs up front. Any little vibe/shimmy is prob being masked.

Checking your ball joints is very easy. Just jack each tire up 3-4" and pry up with a shovel/pry bar. You will hear a clanking noise. And If you look at where the boot meats the knuckle .. You will see movement too.
07-10-2014 11:04 AM
DOMINUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
How come he did not do a caster sweep ? Just curious.

Camber can be a bad ball joint or bent C. How many miles on your ball joints ?
I have 45,200 on mine now. I don't get any weird sensations coming through the wheel or anywhere. No vibrations, no wobbles, no unusual noises. Does anything look out of whack to you with the exception of the left front wheel? I mean all green should mean all is well right?
07-10-2014 10:45 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMINUS View Post
I finally was able to get my alignment done. What a difference that made in the handling. The Jeep doesn't wander anymore. It was a chore to keep her going straight. Now it is a relaxed affair. My left front tire is still a little off according to the printout and I wasn't able to get a printout of what it was before the corrections were made but man what a difference. The sloppy loose feel in the steering is all but gone because the tires are actually sitting properly on the road and giving some sense of feedback. I actually now know what the hell the front tires are doing.
How come he did not do a caster sweep ? Just curious.

Camber can be a bad ball joint or bent C. How many miles on your ball joints ?
07-10-2014 10:10 AM
DOMINUS I finally was able to get my alignment done. What a difference that made in the handling. The Jeep doesn't wander anymore. It was a chore to keep her going straight. Now it is a relaxed affair. My left front tire is still a little off according to the printout and I wasn't able to get a printout of what it was before the corrections were made but man what a difference. The sloppy loose feel in the steering is all but gone because the tires are actually sitting properly on the road and giving some sense of feedback. I actually now know what the hell the front tires are doing.
07-02-2014 10:16 PM
flyfishnevada
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
More with less height. 2 maybe 3 degrees.
Thanks for the help!
07-02-2014 07:39 PM
Barmanvarn I've yet to read this thread but I have it bookmarked for a future date.

Since the drop brackets were mentioned, I will say they did help me after I threw on 35s. Never did any measuring as I'm lazy.

Just chiming in since Ken mentioned them.
07-02-2014 06:36 PM
kjeeper10 More with less height. 2 maybe 3 degrees.
07-02-2014 06:22 PM
flyfishnevada It does feel a little light going down the road. Seems to grab ruts and follow them more easily. I really noticed yesterday off road. Seemed to want to follow the wheels tracks more readily. From what I've read, that's a indication of to little caster. I think I'll schedule an alignment and see exactly where I'm at. I could live with the way it drives but why not dial it in and get it right.

By the way, what kind of bump in caster will I see with the Rancho brackets? 2 degrees or so?
07-02-2014 06:16 PM
kjeeper10 LOL.. I did the same. Don't feel bad Technically your still in stock range.

How does the jeep drive .. Any wandering ? Jittery ?
I still like the idea of having the jeeps alignment checked. DIY measurements are not always going to be perfect. Close -but not perfect.

If the jeep handles poorly, a small bump in caster will help. Few people in here running the Rancho brackets with TF's 2.5". Caster is higher 5's.
07-02-2014 06:00 PM
flyfishnevada OK, I pulled the Jeep into the garage. My driveway is sloped at 1*...on the slab nearest the garage but not on the slab furthest away. My garage is a consistent 1* on both slabs and across the joint so there is no faulting. I measure 88* on the front of the diff and DS flange. But when I compensate for the slope of the floor, it's 87*. So 3* caster, not 6* A big difference. Good thing I don't work for NASA, I would have missed the moon

So at about 2.5 to 3.5 (assuming some measuring error, hence the range) degrees caster, I'm looking at a drop bracket. That should get me into the what? 4 to 5 degree range?

And those measurements coincide with the "light" feeling I get now when driving.
07-02-2014 05:53 PM
kjeeper10 I screwed up my DS reading the angle backwards.
07-02-2014 05:28 PM
flyfishnevada I measured in my drive way but it's only one degree and I zero'd my iPhone first. Double checked with an angle gauge and was right there. I'd definitely notice a 3 or 4 degree discrepancy. Hmm. I'm confused now too. You're right. Caster angle should go down, not up.

I wish I would have measured before the lift to compare.
07-02-2014 05:20 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
I measured caster today on my newly lifted Jeep (TF 2.5 spring lift). I measured at the drive shaft flange and the two spots on the front of the the differential. I got 0, 0 and -1, respectively but let's throw out that -1, that one flat spot had some paint drips on it. Not as accurate but I'm at 6* caster measuring across the bottom of the C. Driveline measures about 2-3* and I measure 3.5 inches of lift at the front axle (ground to bottom of fender, same tires before and after). So I'm at zero pinion and 6* caster. So, if I'm getting all of this right and my measurement's are correct I would need to address this and a drop bracket , probably the Rancho, would be in order. After reading this thread and the Rancho drop bracket thread, I think it will put me right back at stock caster or darn near close enough.
Something's not right. Pinion angle increases with lift height.
6 degrees would be more then stock. A bit too much actually.

With My TF coils (3" front, 2" rear) my caster angle measured 3 degrees.
With Teraflex lower arms, I was able to bump up to 4-5 degrees.
07-02-2014 04:41 PM
flyfishnevada I measured caster today on my newly lifted Jeep (TF 2.5 spring lift). I measured at the drive shaft flange and the two spots on the front of the the differential. I got 0, 0 and -1, respectively but let's throw out that -1, that one flat spot had some paint drips on it. Not as accurate but I'm at 6* caster measuring across the bottom of the C. Driveline measures about 2-3* and I measure 3.5 inches of lift at the front axle (ground to bottom of fender, same tires before and after). So I'm at zero pinion and 6* caster.

So, if I'm getting all of this right and my measurement's are correct I would need to address this and a drop bracket , probably the Rancho, would be in order. After reading this thread and the Rancho drop bracket thread, I think it will put me right back at stock caster or darn near close enough.
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