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Topic Review (Newest First)
Yesterday 10:07 PM
kjeeper10 Thanks for posting
Yesterday 09:58 PM
Joejack Thanks man
Yesterday 09:38 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joejack View Post
So worse case scenario, one side is 5.6 and the other is 5.9 am I gonna do any damage running it that way for about a month? I appreciate the input.
Not for a short time. Your coils should settle too. Mine did. You can run 6 w/ the factory shaft up to about 2.5
Anything over that it's just too much.
Yesterday 09:16 PM
Joejack Yea, I have a feeling this alignment shop doesn't know what they are doing or there machine isn't calibrated correctly. Either way I'm gonna take it to an off road shop about an hour away when the new joints get here.
Yesterday 09:14 PM
Joejack So worse case scenario, one side is 5.6 and the other is 5.9 am I gonna do any damage running it that way for about a month? I appreciate the input.
Yesterday 09:02 PM
kjeeper10 That looks really good. Def does not look like 6* caster (0 @ pinion)
Yesterday 06:05 PM
Joejack Here a picture of my driveshaft if it helps.



Attachment 1002097
Yesterday 06:01 PM
Joejack I got about 3.25" up front. The 23 1/16 is for the front lowers and stock uppers. The 89 degrees is showing that angle towards the back of the jeep so that should be correct right?
Yesterday 05:24 PM
kjeeper10 Is the 231/16 number with uppers ? How much height did the coils get you ?

(Positive) 88* would indeed be +2 at the pinion. (= 4* caster) If that's what you're getting, it's perfect.

Edit: make sure it's not reading negative. I did this in the Beginning. Lost my DS because of it. -88 or -2 would be pushing 7-8* caster.
Yesterday 05:03 PM
Joejack I am trying to get my caster straight after installing my RK 1.5" lift with adjustable lower control arms. Unfortunately there are no close off road shops so I had to take it to a run of the mill tire shop that couldn't adjust the LCA's and only adjusted the toe. I accidentally set the length to 23 1/8 which gave me too much caster at 5.7.



Attachment 1001945

So I adjusted after having to apply heat via torch to break the jam nuts loose that had red loctite on them. Ended up melting down some of the rubber raceways inside the RK LCA so I don't think I will be using the loctite again since I had to order some new joints. Seems to defeat the adjustability factor. After adjusting the LCA's to 23 1/16 as RK states in the manual, I ended up with 5.9 on one side and 5.6 on the other. This does not make sense to me since I triple checked the length of the LCA's.



Attachment 1001953

So I checked with an angle finder as this thread advised to. I ended up with 89 degrees which is actually 88 degrees since my garage has a one degree tilt. Doesn't 88 equal out to around 4 degrees caster? I'm not having any drivability issues but I don't want to do any damage to the driveline. Am I gonna hurt anything to drive like this for a few weeks? I am waiting for my new joints and then I am gonna take it to an off road shop that actually knows how to align adjustable LCA's. Hopefully Kjeeper can chime in on this



Attachment 1001961



Attachment 1001969



Attachment 1001977
04-07-2014 10:34 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jutgin View Post
True I need to do that, but would it go away like it does when I go down to 3.6 caster if the shaft was not balanced?
Possible. A perfectly --and I mean perfectly-- balanced shaft will be able to take on more misalignment at the u-joint.
That's why some people can get away with 5* misalignment and some can't.
04-07-2014 10:29 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Id find a driveline shop and check balance. Not worth chasing your tail if there's a issue with the shaft itself.
True I need to do that, but would it go away like it does when I go down to 3.6 caster if the shaft was not balanced?
04-07-2014 10:27 PM
kjeeper10 Id find a driveline shop and check balance. Not worth chasing your tail if there's a issue with the shaft itself.
04-07-2014 10:22 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
You can remove the shaft a drive without it.
Good way to diagnose vibes too.

What shaft do you have ?

That's what sucks with cam bolts. To remove them you need to weld build the mount holes.

IMO Toe can cause a wandering feeling too.
Rough country shaft, dont know what company they use.
I removed the shaft and drove, vibes were gone.
Toe was good today at the alignment shop.
04-07-2014 10:15 PM
kjeeper10 You can remove the shaft a drive without it.
Good way to diagnose vibes too.

What shaft do you have ?

That's what sucks with cam bolts. To remove them you need to weld build the mount holes.

IMO Toe can cause a wandering feeling too.
04-07-2014 10:03 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Dam it.. Wifi kicked out ughhh
Let's try this again

4.6 is stock ... 1.4 is right for pinion angle.

0* at the pinion would put the axle at 6* caster and guarantee vibes. Assuming you mean 0* between pinion/driveshaft ?
The front shaft is not under load. Generally u-joints don't like more then 5* . Some get away with it and some don't.

I don't know what you tried. The cam bolts fix caster but add to pinion angle. I see a lot of guys running a 3/3 split but w/ steering a little light.

Did you run it before the cam bolts and still get vibes ? Possible shaft is un-balanced ?
How about toe spec ?

The JK sucks with only 6* separation. A 3/3 split should work. Doesn't guarantee the greatest handling though. Shouldn't be all over the road.

My thinking. If we ran both uppers and lowers pushing the axle out a bit. The angle of the shaft would be reduced, letting you run more separation.
Perfect analogy.
Stand at the base of a mountain and run a string all the way to the peak (this is your driveshaft)
Now stand a mile back and do the same. The angle of that string is reduced no matter what angle your standing at (caster)
Is 1/2 added to CA length going to help ? Sometimes enough to help balance the angles

Good luck
It all makes sense, I just wish I knew exactly what to do before just throwing more money and parts and time into it. I'm in a crunch as I have to drive 600 miles to Ft Eustis on Saturday.
Before the cam bolts the caster was 3.6 and was wandering like crazy. So I used them and now have vibes, it either wanders or has vibes.
I'm considering the CA drop brackets, but dont know if that would help or not.
04-07-2014 09:50 PM
kjeeper10
Jeep Jk, Caster and lifting.

Dam it.. Wifi kicked out ughhh
Let's try this again

4.6 is stock ... 1.4 is right for pinion angle.

0* at the pinion would put the axle at 6* caster and guarantee vibes. Assuming you mean 0* between pinion/driveshaft ?
The front shaft is not under load. Generally u-joints don't like more then 5* . Some get away with it and some don't.

I don't know what you tried. The cam bolts fix caster but add to pinion angle. I see a lot of guys running a 3/3 split but w/ steering a little light.

Did you run it before the cam bolts and still get vibes ? Possible shaft is un-balanced ?
How about toe spec ?

The JK sucks with only 6* separation. A 3/3 split should work. Doesn't guarantee the greatest handling though. Shouldn't be all over the road.

My thinking. If we ran both uppers and lowers pushing the axle out a bit. The angle of the shaft would be reduced, letting you run more separation.
Perfect analogy.
Stand at the base of a mountain and run a string all the way to the peak (this is your driveshaft)
Now stand a mile back and do the same. The angle of that string is reduced no matter what angle your standing at (caster)
Is 1/2 added to CA length going to help ? Sometimes enough to help balance the angles

Good luck
04-07-2014 09:17 PM
jutgin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Some questions for ya

Are you running control arms ?
How about a double carden shaft ?
Are you trying to balance caster/pinion and can't find that "happy" spot ?
What are your currant specs ?
Yes I have the fixed CA's the kit came with, and prob no good but I added cam bolts trying to dial it in.
Yes I added a double cardon shaft.
Yes trying to balance and can't find the sweet spot.
Just got another alignment today and caster is 4.6
No clue what the pinion angle is cause I can't find a reliable way to find it (unless 6-4.6=1.4?)
I assume with double cardon I need 0 degree at the pinion?
04-07-2014 09:07 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jutgin View Post
Well this has been a great read but I am still unsure of where to got next to fix my angles. I'm either wandering all over the road or have DS vibes. 2013 JKU 3.5" RC lift
Some questions for ya

Are you running control arms ?
How about a double carden shaft ?
Are you trying to balance caster/pinion and can't find that "happy" spot ?
What are your currant specs ?
04-07-2014 08:09 PM
jutgin By the way does anyone know if the fact that I still have the stock 32" tires on is effecting this issue?
04-07-2014 07:42 PM
jutgin Well this has been a great read but I am still unsure of where to got next to fix my angles. I'm either wandering all over the road or have DS vibes.
2013 JKU 3.5" RC lift
03-08-2014 10:45 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dogger View Post
Well Ken, did it warm up enough for you to pull your top and doors? I have mine off, and almost got blown out of my Wrangler today. 81 degrees here, but very windy......
Not that warm yet. 41* but soon to drop again and snow.
Daylight savings time ... 1 extra hour of COLD
03-08-2014 10:38 PM
Old Dogger ^^^Well Ken, did it warm up enough for you to pull your top and doors today?
I have mine off, and almost got blown out of my Wrangler today.
81 degrees here, but very windy......
03-08-2014 10:04 PM
kjeeper10 Good ol' TF videos for ya
03-08-2014 09:23 PM
SteedGun
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
the jeep not nearly as confusing but good link.

Here's a vid from Teraflex
TeraFlex Product Highlight: JK Wrangler Rear Trackbar Bracket(1954777) - YouTube
The video was a bit goofy but really well done. Again, more good information on roll center and the bracket that I have on order.

I was up in the back of the Jeep today replacing factory suspension bolts so I took a good look at the TB position and I think this bracket is going to help a lot.

Thanks again.
03-08-2014 04:57 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteedGun View Post
Kudos to kjeeper10 for all the advice and information. I especially appreciate the PMs on roll center and rear track bar bracket. I now have one on order and I also found this article that describes roll center very well and matches to what kjeeper10 has taught me. Understanding and Tuning Roll Center - R/C Tech Forums
the jeep not nearly as confusing but good link.

Here's a vid from Teraflex
http://youtu.be/AKUoyukFhoo
03-07-2014 08:19 PM
SteedGun Kudos to kjeeper10 for all the advice and information. I especially appreciate the PMs on roll center and rear track bar bracket. I now have one on order and I also found this article that describes roll center very well and matches to what kjeeper10 has taught me.

Understanding and Tuning Roll Center - R/C Tech Forums
03-07-2014 03:40 PM
kjeeper10 With the fixed lca's caster is set depending on lift height. The degrees are shown per inch lift there in the link.
Toe will change but ever so slightly. If you already had it aligned and toe set, you should be fine without another alignment. It's up to you whether you want adjustable arms or not. For what you are after, the fixed should work out just fine.
03-07-2014 03:33 PM
SteedGun Details:

2014 Rubicon X
OME 2619 front coils
OME 2618 back coils
OME Nitro shocks front/back
Warn Zeon 10-S winch, hoop, lights (added weight)
Best I can measure the lift was around 2.25" but I am not sure if the X already had some lift over a stock Rubicon.

So, the Synergy CAs should be o.k. right or should I get the adjustable ones (much more money)?

Next very dumb question. If I replace the LCAs will I need to get the alignment redone?
03-07-2014 03:12 PM
kjeeper10 Yep those will work, But don't go by listed coil height. What's your actual height ? You caster is pretty low and I would assume 3-4"over stock height.

Edit: ok never mind. Those arms come only in one size. The caster/lift height note is a good reference.
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