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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-21-2014 12:28 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by brighton View Post
I'm always learning, and this is an excellent resource on caster and pinion angles. Thanks for posting this, kjeeper. This should be a sticky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Ty...I'll get it in our new reference thread. Prob is a lot of people use their phones and sticky's are missed. Either that or not read through :P
Good point.

Awesome thread, Ken.

I wonder how much $ simple caster problems cost Jeepers as a whole. Probably a lot.
04-21-2014 07:53 AM
kjeeper10 Hard to guess but I would try for the best pinion angle and let caster be second. I'm thinking 6/4 which would get my drive shaft 2-3* difference from pinion .... If that makes sense ?

Right now-with the factory 6*-I am at 4/2. My DS/pinion is 5-6 which is already pushing it.

I'm sure 5-6* caster is more then enough and the jeep should handle far better then stock.
04-21-2014 07:08 AM
Buster3479 Thanks for the reply. If you were setting it up, would you start with the 7/3 nominal, or shoot for something else based on your experience in your rig?
04-21-2014 12:27 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster3479 View Post
Ken, Caster, how much is too much? I just installed the PR 44 axle with Synergy fixed lowers and adj uppers. I can easily get 7/3 (by the way, with the exact same length arms the measurements differ slightly side to side). The housing was set up for a nominal 7/3 with a range of 8-6/2-4. Is there such a thing as too much + caster? Edit: Sorry, forgot to add, 3.5" of actual lift.

Not really w/ that housing. I've seem some split it and others set up for perfect pinion angle at a given height.
04-20-2014 10:56 PM
Buster3479 Ken, Caster, how much is too much? I just installed the PR 44 axle with Synergy fixed lowers and adj uppers. I can easily get 7/3 (by the way, with the exact same length arms the measurements differ slightly side to side). The housing was set up for a nominal 7/3 with a range of 8-6/2-4. Is there such a thing as too much + caster?

Edit: Sorry, forgot to add, 3.5" of actual lift.
04-19-2014 09:15 PM
kjeeper10
04-19-2014 08:52 PM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Were you on flat ground or take ground angle (if any) into your measurement ?

+1 at the pinion is slightly lower then stock (5* caster)
+2 at the pinion is stock (4* caster)
surface dead flat cement floor both ways.
04-19-2014 08:48 PM
kjeeper10 Were you on flat ground or take ground angle (if any) into your measurement ?

+1 at the pinion is slightly lower then stock (5* caster)
+2 at the pinion is stock (4* caster)
04-19-2014 08:34 PM
jadmt
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
That's right on as far as separation.
so is that a good thing?
04-19-2014 08:02 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
ok I have 2.25" lift using the stock measurement on top of shock bushing to center of lower mounting bolt being 18.5" ie my measurement is 20.75 both sides. using the phone app clinometer I have about 5* on top of flat ball joint and just under 1* on the machined surface of the spreader holes on the pumpkins and about the same on the ds flange. very good manners on the road. Going to replace the stock springs and 2" AEV spacers as soon as my 1.5" RockKrawler triple rates come in and will put it back on a real alignment table.
That's right on as far as separation.
04-19-2014 07:42 PM
jadmt ok I have 2.25" lift using the stock measurement on top of shock bushing to center of lower mounting bolt being 18.5" ie my measurement is 20.75 both sides. using the phone app clinometer I have about 5* on top of flat ball joint and just under 1* on the machined surface of the spreader holes on the pumpkins and about the same on the ds flange. very good manners on the road. Going to replace the stock springs and 2" AEV spacers as soon as my 1.5" RockKrawler triple rates come in and will put it back on a real alignment table.
04-19-2014 06:25 PM
foxsat71 None at all. Jeep drove smooth. I had the D30 sleeved and gusseted in July or August of 2013 and on the way home I kept getting an ABS light. I think the D30 may have been put back a little off or something. Gotta go text later. Thanks for your input.
04-19-2014 06:06 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxsat71 View Post
No a shop installed it back in Oct. of 2012. Never had any issues. Switched to 33" tires in November of 2013. Then in Dec. of 2013 I had ball joints swapped out and Adams Driveshaft installed(front only). That's when I started to have the "flighty" steering. Never had an alignment done since new, but shop that installed Metal Cloak lift set the control arms to the lengths in the instructions.
That's the problem. Even MC should say the numbers are only a reference or starting point.

Do you have any vibes at highway speeds ?
04-19-2014 05:49 PM
foxsat71 No a shop installed it back in Oct. of 2012. Never had any issues. Switched to 33" tires in November of 2013. Then in Dec. of 2013 I had ball joints swapped out and Adams Driveshaft installed(front only). That's when I started to have the "flighty" steering. Never had an alignment done since new, but shop that installed Metal Cloak lift set the control arms to the lengths in the instructions.
04-19-2014 05:20 PM
kjeeper10 Def find a competent shop or do it yourself. Did you install the lift ?
It's not all that hard to adjust the control arms.
3.5/6* is dangerously high for the stock DS. Not even possible with a double carden.

Your front lowers should be set to around 231/6 to 231/8
Uppers set pinion/caster. I can't say a measurement because no 2 jeeps are the same.
04-19-2014 03:46 PM
foxsat71 3.5" MC Lite lift.
04-19-2014 03:46 PM
foxsat71 Synergy ball joints; all four. It got better after a few days, but still felt "flighty" steering. I agree, caster is high at 6*. I need to find a competent shop to do a proper 4 wheel alignment on my jeep. The shop that adjusted the toe did not want to adjust the control arms even though mine were adjustable, because the alignment machine read,"see dealership" caster is not adjustable.
04-19-2014 02:33 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxsat71 View Post
I can confirm what KJEEPER10 said about Toe causing the wandering feeling. My toe was off and I was getting that wandering feeling(side to side drift), especially on the hwy. It started after replacing all four ball joints. Here is a pic of my alignment sheet from the shop. Let me know if anything needs tweaking.
Which ball joints ?
I know some require a few miles to loosen up.

Lift height ?
6* is high for caster. More so the higher the lift.
04-19-2014 02:06 PM
foxsat71 I can confirm what KJEEPER10 said about Toe causing the wandering feeling. My toe was off and I was getting that wandering feeling(side to side drift), especially on the hwy. It started after replacing all four ball joints. Here is a pic of my alignment sheet from the shop. Let me know if anything needs tweaking.

Attachment 1004793
04-18-2014 10:07 PM
kjeeper10 Thanks for posting
04-18-2014 09:58 PM
Joejack Thanks man
04-18-2014 09:38 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joejack View Post
So worse case scenario, one side is 5.6 and the other is 5.9 am I gonna do any damage running it that way for about a month? I appreciate the input.
Not for a short time. Your coils should settle too. Mine did. You can run 6 w/ the factory shaft up to about 2.5
Anything over that it's just too much.
04-18-2014 09:16 PM
Joejack Yea, I have a feeling this alignment shop doesn't know what they are doing or there machine isn't calibrated correctly. Either way I'm gonna take it to an off road shop about an hour away when the new joints get here.
04-18-2014 09:14 PM
Joejack So worse case scenario, one side is 5.6 and the other is 5.9 am I gonna do any damage running it that way for about a month? I appreciate the input.
04-18-2014 09:02 PM
kjeeper10 That looks really good. Def does not look like 6* caster (0 @ pinion)
04-18-2014 06:05 PM
Joejack Here a picture of my driveshaft if it helps.



Attachment 1002097
04-18-2014 06:01 PM
Joejack I got about 3.25" up front. The 23 1/16 is for the front lowers and stock uppers. The 89 degrees is showing that angle towards the back of the jeep so that should be correct right?
04-18-2014 05:24 PM
kjeeper10 Is the 231/16 number with uppers ? How much height did the coils get you ?

(Positive) 88* would indeed be +2 at the pinion. (= 4* caster) If that's what you're getting, it's perfect.

Edit: make sure it's not reading negative. I did this in the Beginning. Lost my DS because of it. -88 or -2 would be pushing 7-8* caster.
04-18-2014 05:03 PM
Joejack I am trying to get my caster straight after installing my RK 1.5" lift with adjustable lower control arms. Unfortunately there are no close off road shops so I had to take it to a run of the mill tire shop that couldn't adjust the LCA's and only adjusted the toe. I accidentally set the length to 23 1/8 which gave me too much caster at 5.7.



Attachment 1001945

So I adjusted after having to apply heat via torch to break the jam nuts loose that had red loctite on them. Ended up melting down some of the rubber raceways inside the RK LCA so I don't think I will be using the loctite again since I had to order some new joints. Seems to defeat the adjustability factor. After adjusting the LCA's to 23 1/16 as RK states in the manual, I ended up with 5.9 on one side and 5.6 on the other. This does not make sense to me since I triple checked the length of the LCA's.



Attachment 1001953

So I checked with an angle finder as this thread advised to. I ended up with 89 degrees which is actually 88 degrees since my garage has a one degree tilt. Doesn't 88 equal out to around 4 degrees caster? I'm not having any drivability issues but I don't want to do any damage to the driveline. Am I gonna hurt anything to drive like this for a few weeks? I am waiting for my new joints and then I am gonna take it to an off road shop that actually knows how to align adjustable LCA's. Hopefully Kjeeper can chime in on this



Attachment 1001961



Attachment 1001969



Attachment 1001977
04-07-2014 10:34 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jutgin View Post
True I need to do that, but would it go away like it does when I go down to 3.6 caster if the shaft was not balanced?
Possible. A perfectly --and I mean perfectly-- balanced shaft will be able to take on more misalignment at the u-joint.
That's why some people can get away with 5* misalignment and some can't.
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