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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-09-2011 04:33 PM
rocknmiss
Quote:
Originally Posted by krutj View Post
Yep, agree here. Those are crap^^.

I'm looking into louvers for my hood, anybody install them?
Agree with the K&N! CRAP! As for the louvers, I'm running the long style Gen Rights. They did lower the under the hood temp some, But my air intake pipe still gets plenty warm. I'm using a cowl style induction (pulling from where the a/c's air also does) with a custom molded scoop with the opening facing forward so plenty of cold air, but by the time it travels through the tunnel of heat............... I'm sure it's much cooler than if I were still using the factory oven box! But the louvers do make a small difference under there.
10-18-2010 03:08 PM
krutj My opinion is based on an experiment that I did about 3-4yrs ago.

I had a K&N in my YJ, and the oil was looking bad at the 3k change interval. So I cleaned and re-oiled the K&N, and ran it for the next 3k, changed the oil and kept a small sample in a clear container.
Then I put a paper filter in and repeated, the oil was much cleaner with the paper filter.
That's how I came to my opinion...........

(not to mention the daylight that can be seen through the K&N)
10-18-2010 05:59 AM
Hilldweller Here's and old-ish thread on the topic; some of the links that were privately maintained are dead. Still some good info.

Do what you like. If you make a box, put a light in one end and a K&N filter in the other, illuminate it in a dark garage, you'll make yourself a mini planetarium and you'll be able to see the solar system on the walls. Do the same thing with a Mopar paper element and you'll just see a glowing box and have a weird table lamp.

Test your own oil and don't rely on anecdotes.
10-17-2010 10:01 PM
aelwero double hijack... nice

If you guys have any shops in your area that do hot rods, they'll be able to give you contact info for someone who can do hood louvres... they're pretty much a requirement for any vehicle to be considered a "real" hot rod, and they are probably cheaper to have done than you'd expect... it can be hard tracking down someone who can do em though...
10-17-2010 10:00 PM
Walkingstick
Quote:
Originally Posted by yjkid95

I guess her face must not be as good looking as her body if they left her head out.
If her face isn't so good do what Chef did.... Use a... Paper bag.
10-17-2010 09:52 PM
yjkid95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjenkins View Post
I like the oops page LoL

I guess her face must not be as good looking as her body if they left her head out.
10-17-2010 09:49 PM
Walkingstick
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjenkins
I like the oops page LoL
Mmmm she's sexy.
10-17-2010 09:48 PM
bobjenkins I like the oops page LoL

10-17-2010 09:44 PM
Walkingstick I'd just make one myself.
Itd look better to and it would barel cost me any money.
10-17-2010 09:20 PM
Wallygator
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgorm View Post
While i respect your opinion, i will disagree with you. If you stated that you have tests from the same vehicle, same oil change interval, same driving conditions, with a paper filter vs a oil filter than i may change my opinion on the subject.

I am also a scientist that deals with specialized equipment (HPLC, NMR, MS, etc), so I understand what goes on with the testing and how to interpret the results. While my evidence is not directly related, i have seen numerous blackstone results for mustangs running K&N type filters with great results. I have heard people on the 'net' say that they are bad in jeeps and let loads of dirt in, but i'll chock that up to user error. I had a drop in K&N in my last jeep that the PO installed. My intake was always super clean without a hint of dust. Simple reasoning would lead one to believe that if the intake is clean, the engine is also clean. I will be running an oil based filter in my jeep as soon as i get around to installing the cowl intake system. I will say that i will probably throw in a paper filter on the cowl when i go offroading for extra protection. I also base my opinion on what i have seen from the desert racing crowd. Oil type K&Ns with a prefilter are the norm from dirt bikes to dune buggies.
Sorta whatt I was saying. K&N is what the majority of the wheelers and rodders use around here. That and Airaid, which is not quite as popular. and some of these guys are doing months of research and building 20k engines. Dont think they would throw their money away on crap.
10-17-2010 01:51 PM
thaduke2003 ^Agreed. The rally cars I used to race for Subaru had a K&N oil-type medium filter installed on every one. They saw SEVERE, high-speed, wide-open-throttle use on dirt, snow, mud, gravel- anything, and ran them. So do both of my JK's.

Worst case, I have a lifetime powertrain warranty, but I'm quite confident it won't be used due to dirt- Mark W.
10-17-2010 10:49 AM
jgorm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Here's what I do for a living. I'm a facility administrator for a gas/liquid chromatograph & spectrum analyzer training lab.
While i respect your opinion, i will disagree with you. If you stated that you have tests from the same vehicle, same oil change interval, same driving conditions, with a paper filter vs a oil filter than i may change my opinion on the subject.

I am also a scientist that deals with specialized equipment (HPLC, NMR, MS, etc), so I understand what goes on with the testing and how to interpret the results. While my evidence is not directly related, i have seen numerous blackstone results for mustangs running K&N type filters with great results. I have heard people on the 'net' say that they are bad in jeeps and let loads of dirt in, but i'll chock that up to user error. I had a drop in K&N in my last jeep that the PO installed. My intake was always super clean without a hint of dust. Simple reasoning would lead one to believe that if the intake is clean, the engine is also clean. I will be running an oil based filter in my jeep as soon as i get around to installing the cowl intake system. I will say that i will probably throw in a paper filter on the cowl when i go offroading for extra protection. I also base my opinion on what i have seen from the desert racing crowd. Oil type K&Ns with a prefilter are the norm from dirt bikes to dune buggies.
10-17-2010 07:05 AM
Triel Bill,
I'm glad you mentioned that K&N air filters are bad for Jeeps. I was planning on getting one for my Jeep, until I saw this. Don't think I need a snorkel yet though. I think I'll wait to see where I'm stationed next before I get one.

Terry
10-16-2010 05:57 PM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallygator View Post
Theres no place local here that does that. But I've been running the K and N in all my vehicles for as long as I can remember and none of them has ever developed engine problems. Even my old Ranger hunting truck went over 400k before I sold it and didn't use a drop of oil. Most of the wheelers herre are using drop in rreplacements like mine. some have full cold air systems but considering you are ususally not running high RPMs in the bush to me those are pointless. And K&N warranties that if an engine fails due to the use of thier product they will replace it.
Besides that what else ya gonna use? A piece of crap FRAM
The OE paper element is about as good as you need.

If you're using K&N in a JK, try sending a sample of your used oil to Blackstone Labs for analysis. They'll tell you a volume of info about what's going on inside your engine.

I hate getting into internet pissing matches about things, especially when I challenge accepted wisdom. Like I do with popular headlight systems, K&N, and other stuff.

Here's what I do for a living. I'm a facility administrator for a gas/liquid chromatograph & spectrum analyzer training lab. These are the gizmos that do oil analysis, make sure that each barrel of Maker's Mark is safe, figure out what's in the splooge found at the crime scene, etc.
I also support the field engineers that sell and support customers with the electronic measurement equipment.

I'm not a scientist, I'm a generalist. My certs are in electronics.
But I am one of those totally outgoing and talkative types --- I have lunch/coffee with the scientists all the time and I'm not shy at all.
And most of them aren't shy either. I ask them everything that I can think of about motor oil, air filters and their effect on oil, gas, etc.
And their answers aren't opinion; their answers are cold hard fact, backed up with pages of data.

A few of the engineers don't mind if I quote them directly; some do and I honor that like a blood oath.
Blackstone doesn't use our equipment or train in our labs so I'm comfortable recommending them for testing. I've called them on the phone and discussed their testing method; I'm happy with the way they do things.

Give it a try to satisfy yourself. But you should know ahead of time that when I say snorkel good K&N bad, it's not to satisfy some weird agenda I have, it's to save my Jeep brothers a bunch of heartache.
10-16-2010 11:56 AM
Wallygator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Have you sent your used motor oil to a lab for analysis?
If not, you have no basis for argument at all.
Send it in; see how elevated your silicate levels are. Go ahead; try it.
Theres no place local here that does that. But I've been running the K and N in all my vehicles for as long as I can remember and none of them has ever developed engine problems. Even my old Ranger hunting truck went over 400k before I sold it and didn't use a drop of oil. Most of the wheelers herre are using drop in rreplacements like mine. some have full cold air systems but considering you are ususally not running high RPMs in the bush to me those are pointless. And K&N warranties that if an engine fails due to the use of thier product they will replace it.
Besides that what else ya gonna use? A piece of crap FRAM
10-16-2010 10:54 AM
jgorm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneaxe View Post
I carved holes in my TJ hood for Run-Cool hood louvres. They seemed to work out fine. I've since sold off the TJ and got the JK. After carving a couple more holes, I've got the Genright hood louvres on that.

Nothing robs performance and shortens life expectancy of a mechanical system like excessive heat. Heat extraction, especially in off-road situations where there's not alot of airflow, is important.
Nice! Nothing beats the DIY mod where you get the same function at 1/10 the price. The AEV hood is WAY too expensive for its usefulness. High underhood temps are a killer on engine performance. When the IATs get over 176F the engine will pull between 4 and 7* of timing (depending on map and rpm), and you will feel that for sure. That is pretty hot, but i've seen IATs that high while wheeling over rocks in the desert. Evacuating some of the radiator heat is also never a bad thing. I'm going to add some louvers to my hood after i do a couple other mods.
10-16-2010 07:33 AM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate53 View Post
I call BS. I had my rig in some of the dustiest, hottest crap day in and day out this summer (Over 100 and fine ground KY dust on trails and rocks) for 8 and 10 hours at a time and the 4 banger never missed a lick. If anyone "Needs" this it is purely for the looks or they need to see a mechanic.
You Sir, are very misinformed...........
10-16-2010 07:24 AM
krutj Looks great.............
10-16-2010 07:22 AM
Stoneaxe
Quote:
Originally Posted by krutj View Post
Excellent!! Are these working out good? I've found one other company that makes these, but I'd support Genright if these are a good product.

My biggest concern is water infiltration into the engine compartment in places that may be harmful.

Your install looks great!
For all the vehicles you have to be mindful of the placement of the louvres. Obviously you don't want to place them over something silly like the alternator, air intake, etc. For the most part, everything under the hood is water-tight. It all gets wet when you drive in the rain anyhow.

The forward lovre on the JK sits over the gap between the radiator and engine. The two rear sit behind the alternator.

The TJ sat to the rear of the engine. No trouble there. The Formula has a water routing manifold on the bottom side of the hood to shunt water to either side and to the front of the block.



10-16-2010 07:13 AM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneaxe View Post
I carved holes in my TJ hood for Run-Cool hood louvres. They seemed to work out fine. I've since sold off the TJ and got the JK. After carving a couple more holes, I've got the Genright hood louvres on that.
Excellent!! Are these working out good? I've found one other company that makes these, but I'd support Genright if these are a good product.

My biggest concern is water infiltration into the engine compartment in places that may be harmful.

Your install looks great!
10-16-2010 07:10 AM
Gate53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Any time you're offroad and going slowly the temperatures under the hood skyrocket and engine performance suffers. The AEV hood takes a step toward mitigating the situation.
I don't think the hood alone does enough to justify the pricetag; you have to like the way it looks as well.
A snorkel, on the other hand, is always working to give your engine cooler air. Like I said, it's always warm under there and it's very hot when you're in 4-low and getting into mischief.
A snorkel gives you nice cool air at that time.

And a snorkel also has a couple of other benefits.
It takes it's source air from a higher altitude, above the majority of medium-density particulates that are floating around on the trail just waiting to contaminate your air filter. Used with a prefilter, you can extend the life of your air filter a good long time.
I don't know about you but, I can foul my air filter to the point of needing a replacement in half a day of ordinary wheeling. I'll do what everyone does and tap it clean on the bumper but, that's no substitute for an actually clean filter.

Snorkels are good things, not just for poseurs.
I call BS. I had my rig in some of the dustiest, hottest crap day in and day out this summer (Over 100 and fine ground KY dust on trails and rocks) for 8 and 10 hours at a time and the 4 banger never missed a lick. If anyone "Needs" this it is purely for the looks or they need to see a mechanic.
10-16-2010 07:02 AM
Stoneaxe
Quote:
Originally Posted by krutj View Post
Yep, agree here. Those are crap^^.

I'm looking into louvers for my hood, anybody install them?
I carved holes in my TJ hood for Run-Cool hood louvres. They seemed to work out fine. I've since sold off the TJ and got the JK. After carving a couple more holes, I've got the Genright hood louvres on that.

Nothing robs performance and shortens life expectancy of a mechanical system like excessive heat. Heat extraction, especially in off-road situations where there's not alot of airflow, is important.









10-16-2010 06:44 AM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallygator View Post
Have to disagree on the K&N. I put a drop in replacement in my 03 TJ more than a year and a half ago and my intake tube is spotlessly clean. And most of my driving is dusty logging roads and trails to good fishing spots.
Have you sent your used motor oil to a lab for analysis?
If not, you have no basis for argument at all.
Send it in; see how elevated your silicate levels are. Go ahead; try it.
10-15-2010 06:50 PM
Wallygator Have to disagree on the K&N. I put a drop in replacement in my 03 TJ more than a year and a half ago and my intake tube is spotlessly clean. And most of my driving is dusty logging roads and trails to good fishing spots.
10-15-2010 06:47 PM
ncossey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep Patrol
Oh, I found the CON! It doesnt have bumpers for ALL those times you want to drop your windshield.
ROFL. A half inch drill bit could fix that real quick
10-15-2010 06:41 PM
Jeep Patrol Oh, I found the CON! It doesnt have bumpers for ALL those times you want to drop your windshield.
10-15-2010 03:51 PM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
K&The N will let all that debris into your engine.
No vehicle taken offroad should have a K&N or other oiled gauze filter installed
.
Yep, agree here. Those are crap^^.

I'm looking into louvers for my hood, anybody install them?
10-15-2010 01:36 PM
Hilldweller The K&N will let all that debris into your engine.
No vehicle taken offroad should have a K&N or other oiled gauze filter installed.
10-15-2010 10:38 AM
ncossey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Any time you're offroad and going slowly the temperatures under the hood skyrocket and engine performance suffers. The AEV hood takes a step toward mitigating the situation.
I don't think the hood alone does enough to justify the pricetag; you have to like the way it looks as well.
A snorkel, on the other hand, is always working to give your engine cooler air. Like I said, it's always warm under there and it's very hot when you're in 4-low and getting into mischief.
A snorkel gives you nice cool air at that time.

And a snorkel also has a couple of other benefits.
It takes it's source air from a higher altitude, above the majority of medium-density particulates that are floating around on the trail just waiting to contaminate your air filter. Used with a prefilter, you can extend the life of your air filter a good long time.
I don't know about you but, I can foul my air filter to the point of needing a replacement in half a day of ordinary wheeling. I'll do what everyone does and tap it clean on the bumper but, that's no substitute for an actually clean filter.

Snorkels are good things, not just for poseurs.
I realize that friend, but the average jeep owner who probably puts their rig offroad once a month would be better off spending their money elsewhere. "tap it clean on the bumper" hahahah I feel you on that, filters have jumped alot in price the last couple of years, I guess Im gonna end up breaking down and buying a K&N, I just have a weird track record with those, seems like everytime I buy one I end up selling my rig shortly afterwards, luckily I like my jeep more than any offroad rig Ive owned.
10-15-2010 07:05 AM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncossey View Post
Pro's - umm looks cool, and helps cool off an engine that pretty much has zero issues with overheating???
Con's - expensive, serves no practical purpose unless you actually use your vehicle offroad the majority of the time, who honestly needs a snorkle, they look cool and all but how many people that have one have honestly submerged a 30,000 dollar vehicle
More cons - you could use that 1,000 bucks on something that could actually be put to use like lockers, winch, lights etc...
Any time you're offroad and going slowly the temperatures under the hood skyrocket and engine performance suffers. The AEV hood takes a step toward mitigating the situation.
I don't think the hood alone does enough to justify the pricetag; you have to like the way it looks as well.
A snorkel, on the other hand, is always working to give your engine cooler air. Like I said, it's always warm under there and it's very hot when you're in 4-low and getting into mischief.
A snorkel gives you nice cool air at that time.

And a snorkel also has a couple of other benefits.
It takes it's source air from a higher altitude, above the majority of medium-density particulates that are floating around on the trail just waiting to contaminate your air filter. Used with a prefilter, you can extend the life of your air filter a good long time.
I don't know about you but, I can foul my air filter to the point of needing a replacement in half a day of ordinary wheeling. I'll do what everyone does and tap it clean on the bumper but, that's no substitute for an actually clean filter.

Snorkels are good things, not just for poseurs.
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