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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-25-2013 06:57 PM
RevCo666 I would of like to use NGK's when I took out the old plugs but none were available at the time at my local Canadian Tire, so I went with Champions 7034 which seems to be the next best choice. I was gonna use E3's but after much reading, that would of been a bad idea, atleast for my jeep.
03-25-2013 06:44 PM
jeepndon This is simple BUY THE ONES THAT ARE ON THE STICKER UNDER THE HOOD! They came with this NGK model

V-Power #ZFR5N GAP 0.35

Problem Solved
03-25-2013 10:38 AM
toxictv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubdeep View Post
Bringing back an old thread.....

2000 6 cyl TJ (with DIS) Always ran Champion Truck Plug 4412...they were extinct when I had to replace them in 2012....so I bought the Autolite APP985.

Less than 9 months later, gas mileage is 50 miles less to a tank and now my engine is throwing a p0301 code for cyl 1 misfire. Knowing the work I have done to the Jeep already, it probably is the Autolite going bad. Will pull after the storm passes and install the new 4412 replacement; Champion 7034's and update.


I've had the Champion 7034 plugs in three different distributor-less Jeeps (two '02 I6 TJs and one '00 I6 XJ).

No problems, great plugs. Don't forget a small amount of antiseize and torque them to 26-30 ft/lb.
03-25-2013 10:22 AM
Hubdeep
Champion to Autolite

Bringing back an old thread.....

2000 6 cyl TJ (with DIS) Always ran Champion Truck Plug 4412...they were extinct when I had to replace them in 2012....so I bought the Autolite APP985.

Less than 9 months later, gas mileage is 50 miles less to a tank and now my engine is throwing a p0301 code for cyl 1 misfire. Knowing the work I have done to the Jeep already, it probably is the Autolite going bad. Will pull after the storm passes and install the new 4412 replacement; Champion 7034's and update.
08-26-2012 04:57 PM
scott howard You think I can get Jerry fired up if I suggest the E3-diamond plugs ....lol
Just kidding Jerry has once again given great info on here.
08-26-2012 04:47 PM
DBoat Thanks to all for this thread.. I just ordered some Champion 7034s from OReillys.. is there anything else I should do? just bought her '05 LJ w 80K miles on it.. I know the oil was changed, so will change all the fluids at next oil change. Oh, and put on a SCT Trailjammer kit, so she got a new air filter with that mod.

Dana
08-26-2012 11:51 AM
Jfaine New to the forum and jeep community but I had to post on this thread. I recently bought a 2006 unlimited with 60k and wasn't terribly impressed with the idle but it wasn't enought to prevent me from buying the vehicle. I immediately did the customary tune up. Factory plugs, clean the throttle body (on vehicle), oil, all filters, ect. I have to say the factory champions felt week. Extremely easy to change the gap with the slightest bump. Afterwords the truck idled worse.
After finding Jerry's thread I decided to replace the stock champions with the double platinum autolites. She purrs like a kitten now. Thanks Jerry! And great forum! Lots of good reading.
11-13-2011 09:43 AM
KidRock171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
What model year do you have? If it's a 2000 or newer with a distributorless ignition, I personally would go with a Champion 7034 or Autolite APP985 which are both double-tipped platinum plugs. They perform at the same level as a conventional plug like the Champion 4412 Truck plug but they will outlast it by around 3X. The APP985 is probably the most recommended plug for the 2000 and later 4.0L engines and gets 100% rave reviews from those that actually run it

However, you need to be cautious and not install any single-tipped platinum plugs like the Autolite AP985 in your distributorless engine. Any single-tipped platinum plug will cause problems not long after installation in your particular engine. Jeep even has a TSB out to pull single-tipped platinum plugs if they see them. The reason being that your engine has three ignition coils shared between six spark plugs when a coil fires, it gives spark to two plugs simulataneously but only one plug is on its compression stroke. For some reason, plugs that don't have identical materials on both sides of the gap (single-tipped platinum has platinum on just the tip instead of dual-tipped which has platinum on both sides of the gap) create problems for that type of engine.

You can't do better than the Autolite APP985 or Champion 7034, either of which will give you pretty close to 100K miles of life without problem. I used to run the Champion 4412 Truck plug but it didn't perform any better than the Autolites I now run and they only lasted one third as long as the Autolites do.
Thanks boss. Doing my first plug change today and was looking for a thread just like this.
10-26-2011 06:38 PM
rrich More trash to throw away.

Notice they have the spark going perpendicular to the plug - EVERYTHING ELSE runs it parallel - so more mixture is ignited.
10-26-2011 02:18 PM
TJeepman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
No, iridium technology is sound and doesn't have an issue to be concerned about. If the factory hadn't installed iridium plugs, they would be saying to replace them at 90km, not just inspect them. Iridium plugs are OE on many vehicles now, my wife's Lexus LS430 came with iridium plugs that looked to be unworn when I pulled them at 80K miles. They were in amazing condition and really didn't need replacing. I did so simply because I had already purchased new plugs for it, not realizing it came with iridium plugs from the factory.
Thanks for the info.

What do you think of the Bosch Platinum Iridium fusion +4? Just asking, I never intend to use Bosch while Champion and NGK are around.
10-26-2011 02:16 PM
ipleadda2nd
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee980 View Post
try butt-plugs
Hilarious!!! I always wanted to know what they're for. Maybe some kind of adult pacifier?
10-26-2011 01:17 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJeepman View Post
I wonder why the inspection - sounds like concern about a possible problem with the iridium plugs.
No, iridium technology is sound and doesn't have an issue to be concerned about. If the factory hadn't installed iridium plugs, they would be saying to replace them at 90km, not just inspect them. Iridium plugs are OE on many vehicles now, my wife's Lexus LS430 came with iridium plugs that looked to be unworn when I pulled them at 80K miles. They were in amazing condition and really didn't need replacing. I did so simply because I had already purchased new plugs for it, not realizing it came with iridium plugs from the factory.
10-26-2011 12:36 PM
TJeepman With my 2002 Grand Caravan 3,3L, I look at 100,000 kms (60,000 miles) as a good change interval. I do the work myself so only the cost of the plugs to consider. Champion DP is the plug used per OE specs.

On a friend's 2004 Acura, the maintenance schedule says to remove and inspect the plugs (see below) at 90,000 kms. Having done that much work, may as well replace them, I think. I wonder why the inspection - sounds like concern about a possible problem with the iridium plugs.
Quote:
NGK IZFR6K-11 (OE = iridium) The OE spark plugs for this application are iridium-tipped.
For the Jeep's engine, both Champion and NGK are OE specified. Mopars here are NGKs, for the Jeep.
10-26-2011 10:54 AM
rrich I'd certainly have much more faith in Champion than any other.

The problem is - the "heat range" is a generic term. They may work fine at a particular RPM and load, but the engine "sees" lots of different conditions, RPM, load, mixture and ambient and engine temps. A plug has to perform well under ALL conditions. For each condition, there is a different range of plug temps.
Heat range rating is only the ability to carry away the excess heat, but but not carrying away too much. Too much left causes harmful ping, too little the spark has trouble ionizing. Under every condition that characteristic changes.
Plus there's the details about "where" in the chamber it fires (reach and indexing, self cleaning etc.)
It takes a lot of research to make it right.

Interesting - lay several different "correct" plugs side by side - why do they look so different from each other?


Bubba and Yahoo plugs aren't going to meet all the criteria. The risk is your pistons - inaudible ping is a killer!

What disturbs me, even Champion is falling into the one size fits all and advertising hype - they are participating in the flim-flam stuff now too.

100,000 miles - I'd be nervous about not looking at them for that long. I may be doing overkill, but I like to see how they are doing at least every 30,000 miles.
It would be interesting to see emissions readings before and after a plug change (same to same) at 100,000 miles.
10-26-2011 09:51 AM
mountainman1 Just changed the spark plugs in my 05 4.0. I bought NGK ZFR5N to replace the originals. Low and behold NGK ZFR5N came out. Since the Jeep had 52,000 I'm almost certain they were the originals too. It runs great. If you use the code P20 on the Advance Store checkout online you can get'em for $1.91 a piece for store pickup. Good Luck.
10-26-2011 09:49 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejakez View Post
I'm about to put in a set of Champion 7034s on my '06 X w/4.0. Previous owner never changed out the stockers and it's got 50K on her now (DOH!); she's runnin a bit coarse so I'll let ya'all know how she drives with the new plugs...
Champion's 7034 was a very good choice for your '06 4.0L engine. It has the correct heat range for the 4.0L engine and is a double-tipped platinum plug, just what your distributorless ignition system likes. You can expect pretty darned close to 100K miles of very good performance with that plug.
10-26-2011 09:30 AM
rrich The trouble with Bosch, and always has been - they try to make one plug that will fit everything. they use the "one size fits all" technique.
Just because a plug works great in a Yugo doesn't mean it'll work great in a Chevy. The combustion chamber in a Jeep is different than one in a Moskovich.

Look at plug catalogs - a Champion catalog is many times thicker than a Bosch.
That's how Bosch has earned their reputation "Hitler's Revenge."

Ask your wife how "one size fits all" works for her.

I took Autolite's course, I tried a set of their double tipped in my 4.0 Jeep. So far so good - it's been a few months now - but maybe only 200+ miles. I very rarely drive it due to my numb feet and legs - can't tell the difference between clutch, brake or floor.

I also watched a video about how "special" (expensive) magnets hooked around the fuel line increase power and economy.
The video I'm looking forward to next is the one where you use a computer fan in the intake to "pressurize" the incoming air. "who needs a turbo?"

The Jeep DIS ignition - it fires the plugs twice as often, once on the firing stroke, the other on the TDC "backside." 3 of the plugs fire with the hot center electrode with a positive (+) charge, the other 3 get a negative (-) charge.
A little bit of metal transfer occurs with each spark - metal gets removed from one electrode and deposited on the other. The erosion flow is from the negatively charged electrode to the positive.
On the DIS - look closely at a well used set of plugs. 3 will show the center wore he most, the other 3 show the ground electrode did.
Platinum electrodes don't wear as fast, but single tipped plats only have it on one side. That's why the singles don't last very long.

Autolite has never been able to get heat ranges right unless they designed a plug to fit a particular engine - then they try to use it on other engines - and fail miserably! if you knew exactly what vehicle the specific plug was designed for it would be OK, but how can you tell?
As far as I know the Autolite double plats usually recommended were first introduced in the Neon/PT Cruiser - if you have that engine in your Jeep it should be fine.

Now where is that video on becoming a better off-road driver by drinking Apple Cider?
10-26-2011 07:31 AM
TJeepman As to spark plug selection, cant go wrong with what the Manufacturer specifies. As to going to "fancy" plugs, they may run too hot. Lots of burnt piston stories on the web blamed on hot plugs.
A member on another Forum, where I am a moderator, just had engine failure with a 3.8L engine (Town & Country). He was getting a rough running engine and a misfire code. Hole in #6 piston/cylinder apparently. Putting air pressure on that cylinder sends air up through the dip stick tube, according to the Mechanic working on it. One has to look at the Bosch iridium +4 spark plugs he was using, instead of Champion double platinum specified, as a possible cause (too hot).

Bottom line: Don't borrow trouble by using "unknown" products.
10-26-2011 01:31 AM
ejakez Also, (as you can see) I'm new to this forum and can't find much info on headers. I just installed a pacesetter header on my '06 and just curious if anyone has any tips on the best way to tighten the bolts on the underside of the header/intake manifold... I can get a wrench on 'em but I can't get 'em very tight and I'm leaking from the header and intake, needless to say my CEL is relentless...
10-26-2011 01:27 AM
ejakez I'm about to put in a set of Champion 7034s on my '06 X w/4.0. Previous owner never changed out the stockers and it's got 50K on her now (DOH!); she's runnin a bit coarse so I'll let ya'all know how she drives with the new plugs...
10-26-2010 05:40 PM
rrich The coil rail system does not put out as much open circuit voltage as the distributor type ignitions. It's not needed because the extra gap in conventional ignitions is gone - the rotor to coil tower gap. It only has to jump one gap vs two.

Opening the plug gap much will increase the resistance, but will lower the current - Ohms Law. The current determines the width of the spark - you want as thick a spark as possible - more surface area to start the fire (BBQ - paper match vs propane torch.)

The gap specified is about the best place to gap them for optimum performance.

The other systems you refer to are probably more powerful and can take the wider gap - making the spark jump longer.
10-26-2010 11:46 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJeepman View Post
If using double platinum in the Jeep, I wonder if I could gap them wider from the start. I'm sure Jerry will know the answer to that.
Jerry has no idea.
10-26-2010 07:04 AM
TJeepman May not agree with you about the Fram filters rrich but certainly agree with you about the spark plugs.

I'm on a Forum for Chrysler Minivans and Champion double platinums, called for by Chrysler, are the best plugs to use, no doubt. Some buy Bosch and other fancy spark plugs and most often have problems. The general recommendation on the Forum, for the 3.3L and 3.8L engines, is to stick to what Chrysler says, and don't borrow trouble.

Chrysler will, however, have NGK listed from time to time. I think their newer Vans call for NGK. My Jeep lists both Champion and NGK and I have used both with no problems with either brand.

No doubt the copper core plugs specified for the Jeep have a shorter life, it isn't all that bad at 48,000 kms (30,000 miles). The 0.035" gap is low compared to the 0.050" gap specified for the Vans. The double platinums do hold their gap very well, probably for the life of the plug. The main reason for replacing them at say 100,000 miles, is not wear but that they may stick to the head if left in there for too long. If using double platinum in the Jeep, I wonder if I could gap them wider from the start. I'm sure Jerry will know the answer to that.
10-26-2010 12:45 AM
rrich I took the course - by Autolite, owned by the same parent company as Fram. We've seen the reports on Fram - Since quality is not a concern in one company, why would one expect it from the other?

I saw their explanation - it makes sense. But I'm not yet a believer. I put a set of the double plats in mine (03 Rubicon - so far so good, I've put maybe 200 miles on it so far.

But I wonder - why doesn't Chrysler suggest using them? It's not the cost - else they wouldn't use them for what they are intended for - the PT Cruiser and the Imperial.

My shops (3), 1 was a general domestic auto repair, the other 2 were specialized High Performance dyno shops. Plug changes were common - I have no idea how many plugs we changed, but I'm sure it was in the many thousands.
The problem plugs - brands - always seemed to be Bosch - the worst, I threw the rep out, I would not sell them. The other problem brand was Autolite. It seemed Autolites fouled real easy, and the insulators cracked too easy, often on installation. Mislabeling was also a problem with them.

The type of plugs that rarely worked unless the engine was specifically designed to use them - Platinums. Toyotas were about the only ones where they worked. Just looking at a scope pattern plats were easy to spot - they look very similar to fouled plugs. Under load on a dyno you could easily see them breaking down.

I didn't like come-backs, so we used plain old regular Champion plugs - they always seemed to be the best. And we always used a torque wrench!

But hopefully technology has changed, that was a few years ago.

Right now my motorhome (carbed Ford 460) is disabled and parked at a campground storage lot. I changed plugs about 120 miles ago (routine maintenance) - to Autolites - the same as the underhood sticker called out - not plats. On the way to the campground it started running terrible - we barely made it there. The plugs were fouling.
To move it to the storage area I had to do the old towtruck drivers trick - hold the coil wire out a tad, that increases the voltage to the plug and helps fire the fouled plugs. I need to go change the plugs to Champs so I can bring it home. Hopefully I'll do that in the next few days.

Funny - I ordered the Champs today - parts house didn't have them - tomorrow. When I mentioned switching from Autolites to Champs 2 guys agreed - both have "built" Cherokees - both said Autolites don't work very well in theirs. Champs do. That's sort of a testimonial.

But - maybe you'll have better luck.
10-25-2010 09:32 PM
TJeepman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Yes the factory spec shows those two plugs but in the newer DIS (distributorless ignition system) equipped TJs like you have, conventional plugs like those will now last only half as long as they did with the older distributor-equipped engines.

Instead of the 25K or so miles we could expect from that type plug, we can now only expect perhaps 12-13K miles because DIS ignition systems fire each plug twice as often as the older ignition systems did. The factory installs that plug because it saves them around $8 per vehicle.
Interesting, thanks.
Here's Champion's listing: ChampionSparkplugs.com - Application Search Results

Here's NGK's listing: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_fi...uv/results.asp

Champion is showing a copper core, a single platinum and a double platinum. My experience with double platinum on my Van has been excellent.
10-25-2010 08:17 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffydarren View Post
*ahem Jerry* I dont believe in platinum bs. Use only champion copper.
Go take a formal course on ignition systems including the current DIS type of ignition system as I did and you'll learn why conventional copper core plugs are no longer the best type of plug to use for that type of ignition system. Old-school or not, the DIS (DIS = distributorless ignition system) type of ignition system as is used now goes through conventional spark plugs twice as fast as the older style ignition systems do. If you enjoy changing spark plugs twice as often for a DIS type ignition system as you are used to, by all means stick with conventional copper core plugs.

WF member rrich used to feel the same way as you about copper core and platinum plugs until he recently took a course in ignition systems and spark plugs. After he finished that course, he finally came around to understanding why for DIS ignitions that double-tipped platinum or iridium-tipped plugs make sense over conventional copper core plugs.
10-25-2010 07:56 PM
Jiffydarren Never trust the factory setting. Always gap 'em yourself. Some dont believe in the clear superiority of synthetic oils *ahem Jerry* I dont believe in platinum bs. Use only champion copper.
10-25-2010 07:44 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrich View Post
Autolite - the same company that makes FRAM!
No, it's not. That would be like saying Miller makes Hobart welders. Autolite doesn't make or own Fram and Miller does't make or own Hobart. They are owned by the same respective holding companies but that is where the similarities end. Honeywell owns Autolite, Fram, and Prestone, and as such, Autolite does not own Fram or make any of Fram's products. They are separate companies.
10-25-2010 07:38 PM
toxictv I came in here to say what Jerry said, but he beat me to it, and explained things well. I put in a set of six Champion 7034's last week and she runs great. '02 Sahara. They were pre-gapped to .035 but I checked them all anyways.

Had to go with those since Champion is my last name =P
10-25-2010 07:35 PM
rrich Autolite - the same company that makes FRAM!
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