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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-16-2011 01:42 AM
navret
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
agreed. i just like to know it's done right the first time, even if they fix it the second time for free.
i know guys who own small business, and i only use small businesses for my service vendors (electrical, plumbing, landscaping, general contracting) at work. i'm a firm supporter of small business and i am one of those guys who will patronize mom and pop hardware instead of home depot when i can.
i always avoided home depot and Lowes, but what do you do when its friends and neihbors that work there and the small shop owners and employees live out of town.
01-08-2011 12:16 PM
jgano23
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
The sad part is some of the customers that this has happened to complains that they could have sold the gun for more.
sadly, i'm not surprised.
01-08-2011 12:01 PM
nick50471
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgano23 View Post
that is very commendable. i don't know too many places that would be willing to do that.


The sad part is some of the customers that this has happened to complains that they could have sold the gun for more.
01-08-2011 11:54 AM
jgano23
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
My response and situation is a little different than Jess's. When a customer brings me a firearm for repair they typically don't know what is wrong only that it is not functioning correctly. Customers rarely know the difference between types of failures. I charge $30 for a "Clean and Inspect". This charge stays with the gun regardless whether or not they have me repair it because I have already performed a service. It is very common that the C&I fixes the problem. When more work is required I call the customer with a quote of work that needs to be done. I get stuck with too many repairs unclaimed. Currently i have six repaired rifles that have been sitting for twelve months or longer. I try very hard to get people to pick them up but sometimes I have to sell the gun to pay for the bill. If I sell the gun for more than the bill I send the customer a check for the balance.
that is very commendable. i don't know too many places that would be willing to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
My shop is also family owned and operated by my cousin and I. Everything in the shop is owned by us. We received financial help from nobody and we take a lot of pride in that. We enjoy making our customer laugh and having a good time. We are not the only gun shop but we are the first one people talk about when the topic comes up. Let me tell you nothing makes you more proud than standing in line at a box store and hearing total strangers talk about your shop.
i am the same way. i have no problem joking with and talking to a customer for an hour about non-business stuff. i like the friendly atmosphere that big business lacks. i have never hear anyone at a big box store talk about my place, but i have customers that work at the big box stores that have sent people to me me for parts, repairs, and even new equipment.
01-08-2011 11:41 AM
nick50471
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDsDream View Post
I have a question for Jess or anyone else that runs a repair type business. When a customer brings an item in, do you charge them a diagnostic fee? If you do and the customer has you perform the necessary repairs, do you still charge for the diagnostics or do you waive that fee? Another scenario, a customer comes and tells you what is wrong and what it will take to fix the problem, but for some reason or another is incapable of doing the work themselves, do you still charge a diagnostic fee?
My response and situation is a little different than Jess's. When a customer brings me a firearm for repair they typically don't know what is wrong only that it is not functioning correctly. Customers rarely know the difference between types of failures. I charge $30 for a "Clean and Inspect". This charge stays with the gun regardless whether or not they have me repair it because I have already performed a service. It is very common that the C&I fixes the problem. When more work is required I call the customer with a quote of work that needs to be done. I get stuck with too many repairs unclaimed. Currently i have six repaired rifles that have been sitting for twelve months or longer. I try very hard to get people to pick them up but sometimes I have to sell the gun to pay for the bill. If I sell the gun for more than the bill I send the customer a check for the balance.

My shop is also family owned and operated by my cousin and I. Everything in the shop is owned by us. We received financial help from nobody and we take a lot of pride in that. We enjoy making our customer laugh and having a good time. We are not the only gun shop but we are the first one people talk about when the topic comes up. Let me tell you nothing makes you more proud than standing in line at a box store and hearing total strangers talk about your shop.
01-08-2011 11:18 AM
jgano23
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDsDream View Post
I have a question for Jess or anyone else that runs a repair type business. When a customer brings an item in, do you charge them a diagnostic fee? If you do and the customer has you perform the necessary repairs, do you still charge for the diagnostics or do you waive that fee? Another scenario, a customer comes and tells you what is wrong and what it will take to fix the problem, but for some reason or another is incapable of doing the work themselves, do you still charge a diagnostic fee?
we do have a $25 estimate fee, but i usually don't charge it at all. if the customer chooses to have the repair done at my shop or if they purchase a replacement piece of equipment, i waive the fee. to be perfectly honest, the only time i have charged the estimate fee is when a customer is being an absolute jerk; example: if you scream at me because your craptacular chainsaw cost you $125 at walmart and i want $75 to repair it ($50 for the carburetor and $25 for the labor to install it), then yes you get the estimate fee. i like to call it the a**hole charge. really the customer's attitude dictates whether or not they get the charge. i give the customer every opportunity to be nice back to me. i can look past a customer yelling and being a jerk if they change their attitude and realize that i am not in the business of taking advantage of them. i explain to the customer why the cost is the way it is, and they usually change their tone when they realize that i am not trying to rake them over the coals and that i value their business.

most of the time we can figure out what is wrong with the machine just by them telling us the symptoms, which means there is no reason for an estimate fee. if they tell me what is wrong then, no, there is no charge, they have done the work for me.

i run a super small family business (me, my husband, my father, & my brother). it is to my advantage to treat my customers like i would like to be treated. my entire family's well being depends on it. if i act like a jerk and take advantage of my customers, i lose business. if i lose business, no one in my family has a job. simple as that. i say thank you to my customers after they have a repair done or make a purchase, i usually try to call them a few weeks after the repair to make sure everything is still going well. i have also honored my 30 day guarantee months after it is over. my business is not perfect, and i am sure we have some unhappy customers, but i try my best to keep them few and far between. i try my best to operate my business much differently than the "big box stores" and the larger repair shops in my area. All my customers have names not $ sign. i am not trying to have a sales pitch here, what i want people to realize is that a lot of small business operate like mine, not everyone is trying to take advantage of you.

.
01-08-2011 10:50 AM
JDsDream I have a question for Jess or anyone else that runs a repair type business. When a customer brings an item in, do you charge them a diagnostic fee? If you do and the customer has you perform the necessary repairs, do you still charge for the diagnostics or do you waive that fee? Another scenario, a customer comes and tells you what is wrong and what it will take to fix the problem, but for some reason or another is incapable of doing the work themselves, do you still charge a diagnostic fee?
01-08-2011 10:40 AM
baja I have been on both sides of this.Waiting for parts for equipment needed on the jobsites,having foreman's scream at me over the phone because their stuff wasn't done yesterday.THEN I'm on the phone chewing butt because my parts aren't in or someone dropped the ball ordering them.The stress level was up there.I've learned over the yrs that its not worth the trouble of trying to please everyone or getting upset because the middleman don't jump on my orders on the spot.When I deal with a counter person who is having troubles dealing with the assh&le before me I smile and say "Isn't P.R. work a dreamjob?"Just treat people like you want to be treated and altho it might not seem like it at first,it will come back around for you.Either that or hang a shotgun on the wall behind you.
01-08-2011 08:17 AM
InvertChaos I just got my Jeep serviced at a local shop that just moved here from a nearby town. They do a quality job compared to the stealerships that my parents take our suburban to that leave grease stains on leather seats, break stuff, change the wrong part, etc. This shop not only quoted me a 'worst case scenario' price lower than any other shop but he charges by the tenth of an hour (so I only pay for the actual time it takes them), I got $10 off the hourly wage because the president gives our local Jeep club a discount, 10% off because I showed up at their grand opening and shot the breeze with them, and the service was done earlier than expected. I'm happy with them and will definitely be going back. That is how a customer should be treated: with a personal touch. I also like supporting small businesses so its a win : win.
01-08-2011 08:11 AM
Mr. Sinister yeah, the case in the original post deserved to be griped about. i figured as long as we were discussing shops and customer service. if i knew the reaction it was going to generate, i would have just kept it to myself, lol.
01-08-2011 07:01 AM
jgano23 My gripe in my first post was not about people complaining about how much they are being charged. I rarely get people who complain about that. We never so a repair and the tell the customer "it's done here's you're bill." We do and estimate and try to give worst case scenario so when the bill comes in at or below the estimated price the customer is happy. My shop may not be the fastest or cheapest, but I try to make a point of being the most courteous and honest. It males my job a lot easier and my customers a lot happier that way.

My problem in my initial post is that time is relative to what they want. A customer can say "I dropped it off 2 weeks ago" when it was actually only a week ago. I can't use the same time defying logic when billing a repair. If the repair takes me 1 hour I can't bill for 2 because it is not fair to the customer. My main point is if you are going to call and be rude and complain to a friendly person on the phone at least know your time frame, or else you just sound like a jerk.
01-08-2011 05:02 AM
4BangrYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
what i want to know is, where do shops get off on charging me for an hour's worth of work when the job took 20 minutes?
this is why i do everything i have the ability to myself.
I have come to realize sometimes it only takes them a few minutes because of the years of knowlege and the better tools. I do try to do stuff myself but sometimes its better to give in and let someone else get the job done.
01-07-2011 07:57 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky cheese View Post
I understand what you are saying. But any work done by whoever should come with complete satisfaction and warranty on parts and labor. The only thing I can add is become a small business owner and the world of work and finances will be seen in a totally different light.
agreed. i just like to know it's done right the first time, even if they fix it the second time for free.
i know guys who own small business, and i only use small businesses for my service vendors (electrical, plumbing, landscaping, general contracting) at work. i'm a firm supporter of small business and i am one of those guys who will patronize mom and pop hardware instead of home depot when i can.
01-07-2011 07:46 PM
chucky cheese
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
not at all.
like i've been saying, you pay the same for a rookie mechanic that you do for an experienced guy. this is not always the case, but in auto shops it's very common. the experienced guys might make more for their work, but the customer still pays the same rate. some shops are implementing lower rates for routine jobs the young guys do and i think that's a great deal. ask yourself, would you rather pay $100 to have a guy that's been in the trade for 20 years work on your car, or $100 for a kid just learning how to turn wrenches? kid has to learn some time sure, but i'm clearly not paying for his experience.
I understand what you are saying. But any work done by whoever should come with complete satisfaction and warranty on parts and labor. The only thing I can add is become a small business owner and the world of work and finances will be seen in a totally different light.
01-07-2011 07:40 PM
IndyJeepMan I work at Kenworth of Indianapolis, and I can attest to what you mean OP.

Customers will come in there griping because their T600 dumb truck isnt done, when we get slammed all day with already processed and called in jobs. Most truck jobs easily take atleast a day to be done. Not for the work, but the time getting it in.

I mostly chimed in here to talk about walk-ins. We don't usually put a walk-in customer ahead of a called in customer. But in the trucking industry when a truck is down, it means loss for that person or company. So if a customer comes in needing a new platinum in frame engine overhaul kit, and there a call in customer that just needs some mudflaps and a exhaust put on but isnt in a hurry. The company needing the truck comes first.

One story... We close at 4pm on saturday. A guy comes in at around 2:30. He came right off the highway on a wrecker and needed his T2000 worked on. It was broken down completely and needed around $5,000 in parts. Well we told him that we will get to the job priority monday when we open back up and will put him up for the night. He said, I have a full load that needs delivered and another load to bring back sunday. I need the truck done.

So we told him, we will do the work but he will have to pay the usual rate of $95 an hour, plus the overtime wages for the one service writer, the parts department guy, and 4 technicians. But they would get it done in the night.

He did it and got on his way that morning. A probably $5,500 dollar repair, came out to around $12,000 but he needed to get on his way and it actually saved him money. Always appreciate the customer and they will usually always continue business with you. Don't make exceptions for people unless you will for everyone.
01-07-2011 07:15 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky cheese View Post
MR. Sinister, not to open a can of worms but this statement raises the hackles of every self-employed small business owner. I know , I am one. Bully if you can do it yourself. But if it takes someone else 20 minutes and they charge you for an hour usually you are paying for experience not time. My hat goes off to every small business owner on this forum. Catering to the general public Is not an easy task.
not at all.
like i've been saying, you pay the same for a rookie mechanic that you do for an experienced guy. this is not always the case, but in auto shops it's very common. the experienced guys might make more for their work, but the customer still pays the same rate. some shops are implementing lower rates for routine jobs the young guys do and i think that's a great deal. ask yourself, would you rather pay $100 to have a guy that's been in the trade for 20 years work on your car, or $100 for a kid just learning how to turn wrenches? kid has to learn some time sure, but i'm clearly not paying for his experience.
01-07-2011 07:07 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgano23 View Post
I actually do do that . I give Christmas gifts to my good repeat customers (not just the commercial customers, the homeowners too); it's not much, but it let's them know I appreciate their business. I also thank my customers and make sure to let them know that they are doing ME a favor by giving me their buiness (rather than vice versa.) I really do appreciate my customers, because without them I wouldn't be in business. Most of my customers are really nice, but every now and then you get the jerks.


I don't know how shops are around you, but I charge per 1/10th hour. For every 10 minutes it takes to fix a machine the customer gets charged $6.50. If it takes me 10 minutes to fix you machine, you get charged $6.50.
i have absolutely no problem with that and i appreciate your honesty. it's not the rate that bothers me, it's paying for 60 minutes of work when it only took 20. it's like buying tickets for a football game and watching the teams walk out after the first quarter.
01-07-2011 07:04 PM
chucky cheese
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
what i want to know is, where do shops get off on charging me for an hour's worth of work when the job took 20 minutes?
this is why i do everything i have the ability to myself.
MR. Sinister, not to open a can of worms but this statement raises the hackles of every self-employed small business owner. I know , I am one. Bully if you can do it yourself. But if it takes someone else 20 minutes and they charge you for an hour usually you are paying for experience not time. My hat goes off to every small business owner on this forum. Catering to the general public Is not an easy task.
01-07-2011 06:59 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerwalk View Post
in a way i hear what you're saying Sinister. It does suck at times, and there are times when I have to take my vehicles to my mechanic to get work done, or whatever, and i get the business end of the shaft. But, then again, i support my mechanic, and always refer people to him, so he cuts me some slack from time to time.

But also, knowing a master mechanic for Volvo, and my grandfather being master mechanic for John Deere back in the day, i understand how the whole mechanic time works. Profit and bonuses. The time they charge for your car (mower, whatever) and it takes less than quoted on their work sheet, the more cars they get out the door, but also in the door at the same time, the more they make for their bonuses. But the next guy is also paying that $60/hr 1 hour minimum just like you did, so in all reality, you arent paying for the guy to work on the next guys car. You are paying for the bonus the mechanic makes for getting his work done under the estimated time his sheet says it should take.

Supply and demand is what is all boils down to. You (being Joe Customer) need my service, i have the tools and know how, but you (Customer Joe) do not have what it takes.

Of course I'm sure you know that, but it is what it is. Thats why i really need to get my tools in line so i can stop paying for my mechanic's son to go to college
i can see your point, thanks for making it in a civil manner.

i can understand if you're done in 20 minutes and out the door, but that's never the case. case in point: i took my jeep in for its first oil change back in november. i made an appointment. i dropped it off promptly at 8am when service told me to. i said i'd be back after work (5pm) to pick it up. when i got there, they had not even touched it yet. they said they got slammed with walk in's and i'd be done soon. well it was damn near 7 when i got out of there. well why in the hell did i bother making an appointment when you can just walk in and get handled first? i let it go, and was still polite and even chatted with the service writer for a bit. but i think it helps illustrate my point. the guys who get prompt service pay the same as the guys who don't. so somebody is clocking a bunch of book rate jobs while i'm sitting there waiting. i'm all for getting paid, but it's the customers paying your salary. some folks could stand to remember that.
like i said above, i pay the same rate for a kid to work on my car as i would for a guy who has been doing it 30 years. i understand book rate is an incentive for the guys to work quickly, but it's driven service work through the roof and you don't always have the option of doing it yourself. it's also a crutch for lazy mechanics.
like i said, i worked at a dealership, i've seen this firsthand. i could kill myself to get a tough job done in an hour, while someone else can loaf along doing oil changes or replacing batteries and make multiple book rate jobs in the same time. the only good thing is the service writers tried to rotate who got the tough jobs and when.

again, just my opinions and thoughts. it's nothing personal.
01-07-2011 06:42 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
What in the world does the economy have to do with this??????

Just because times are tough I should change how I charge people.



Do you happen to have a mower that is in need of a belt?




I also responded to the above quote but can't bold my response to identify from the WF app sorry.


i tried to be civil.

an hourly wage is fair practice. like "i make xx per hour." not i work 60 minutes and got paid for 180 while the customer got hosed.

my example is MY JOB, NOT YOURS. IT MAKES ME SICK TO SEE HOW MY JOB THROWS MONEY AROUND LIKE THAT IN THIS ECONOMY. jesus christ, you had better never once bitch about poor customer service you received with the way you think.
01-07-2011 05:11 PM
jgano23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjones View Post
Something for nothing does not exist but something for free after spending a wad of cash for a good returning customer should be a written policy. Doesn't have to be much just something that says "thanks for being a repeat customer".
I actually do do that . I give Christmas gifts to my good repeat customers (not just the commercial customers, the homeowners too); it's not much, but it let's them know I appreciate their business. I also thank my customers and make sure to let them know that they are doing ME a favor by giving me their buiness (rather than vice versa.) I really do appreciate my customers, because without them I wouldn't be in business. Most of my customers are really nice, but every now and then you get the jerks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
what i want to know is, where do shops get off on charging me for an hour's worth of work when the job took 20 minutes?
this is why i do everything i have the ability to myself.
I don't know how shops are around you, but I charge per 1/10th hour. For every 10 minutes it takes to fix a machine the customer gets charged $6.50. If it takes me 10 minutes to fix you machine, you get charged $6.50.
01-07-2011 05:09 PM
pokey I always thought quoting an hourly rate was lame, whether you're an appliance repairman or a lawyer. I understand with repairs you don't know what you are in for until you diagnose the problem. Give the customer a quote to diagnose, then a quote to repair. If you don't know your profession well enough to give a firm quote then you're not a professional. The whole hourly rate thing leaves things too open ended. And when you tell someone $100 an hour they think it's too much even when it isn't. I wouldn't want to work under someones sink or wrench on their toilet for less than that. So like Mr. Sinister said, I'll do it myself if I can.
01-07-2011 04:27 PM
Hammerwalk in a way i hear what you're saying Sinister. It does suck at times, and there are times when I have to take my vehicles to my mechanic to get work done, or whatever, and i get the business end of the shaft. But, then again, i support my mechanic, and always refer people to him, so he cuts me some slack from time to time.

But also, knowing a master mechanic for Volvo, and my grandfather being master mechanic for John Deere back in the day, i understand how the whole mechanic time works. Profit and bonuses. The time they charge for your car (mower, whatever) and it takes less than quoted on their work sheet, the more cars they get out the door, but also in the door at the same time, the more they make for their bonuses. But the next guy is also paying that $60/hr 1 hour minimum just like you did, so in all reality, you arent paying for the guy to work on the next guys car. You are paying for the bonus the mechanic makes for getting his work done under the estimated time his sheet says it should take.

Supply and demand is what is all boils down to. You (being Joe Customer) need my service, i have the tools and know how, but you (Customer Joe) do not have what it takes.

Of course I'm sure you know that, but it is what it is. Thats why i really need to get my tools in line so i can stop paying for my mechanic's son to go to college
01-07-2011 04:06 PM
nick50471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister

i'm simply stating fair is how long it takes you, not how long a book says it should take. maybe police should start charging what they think a life is worth when they stop a murder? firemen should charge what your house and all your belongings are worth to put out a fire?


These analogies make no sense to me sorry.




flat, hourly wage. fair to both parties.
no need to make this hostile.


This is exactly what they are doing. Flat hourly shop rate. Everyone pays the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister
i work in purchasing, so i'm keen on what i pay for services. we have one vendor who has a $7500 job minimum. we just sent them a job that actually cost about $2500.
it makes me sick, especially in this economy. i just keep my mouth shut about it at work.

What in the world does the economy have to do with this??????

Just because times are tough I should change how I charge people.



Do you happen to have a mower that is in need of a belt?




I also responded to the above quote but can't bold my response to identify from the WF app sorry.
01-07-2011 03:29 PM
Mr. Sinister i work in purchasing, so i'm keen on what i pay for services. we have one vendor who has a $7500 job minimum. we just sent them a job that actually cost about $2500.
it makes me sick, especially in this economy. i just keep my mouth shut about it at work.
01-07-2011 03:19 PM
teknoid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
i'm simply stating fair is how long it takes you, not how long a book says it should take. maybe police should start charging what they think a life is worth when they stop a murder? firemen should charge what your house and all your belongings are worth to put out a fire?
flat, hourly wage. fair to both parties.
no need to make this hostile.
It could be worse. My company charges $210 an hour for my labor. 1 hour minimum. We're about average on that for the work I do. Wish I saw more of that than I do, but oh well...
01-07-2011 03:00 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
If you don't like it open your own shop and charge every customer what they think is fair.

Better yet take your new business plan to a small business center and see if they will help you find financial help getting it started.
i'm simply stating fair is how long it takes you, not how long a book says it should take. maybe police should start charging what they think a life is worth when they stop a murder? firemen should charge what your house and all your belongings are worth to put out a fire?
flat, hourly wage. fair to both parties.
no need to make this hostile.
01-07-2011 02:53 PM
nick50471 If you don't like it open your own shop and charge every customer what they think is fair.

Better yet take your new business plan to a small business center and see if they will help you find financial help getting it started.
01-07-2011 02:23 PM
Mr. Sinister i know why it is, i worked for a dealership. the bottom line is i'm paying for you to work on the next guy's car. then that guy pays for you to work on the next guy's car. we both know the book rates are BS, even for rookie part hangers. we also both know the number of occasions where it takes you longer than book rate are like unicorns. i made good money doing book work, but it doesn't mean i thought it was fair to the customer, because it isn't.
you can't justify it by saying that's business. it's like being charged for 60 gallons of gas when you only needed 20. you can't say "go somewhere else" in every instance either, since so many manufacturers will give you hell for getting service work performed anywhere but a dealer.
i'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you have to see this from the customer's standpoint. surely you've been charged more for something than than what you should have paid.

hammerwalk: i can agree quality deserves a premium, but you're not always getting quality and still paying the premium fee. in these shops, you pay the same rate to have a kid right out of high school work on your car as you do with a ase certified veteran.
01-07-2011 01:58 PM
Hammerwalk ^ X2!

When I do contract Wireless networking, or PC work, $60/hr. Never had anyone flinch at it. If they need something done, I give them quality work for what I charge. Otherwise, they can call Geek Squad and get... well, you get the point.
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