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-   -   TJ Brake upgrade (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/tj-brake-upgrade-100171.html)

baabaa 06-28-2011 07:07 AM

TJ Brake upgrade
 
Hi all

Just wondering if anyone had recommendations for a front brake upgrade? New slotted rotors? Calipers? Master cylinder? pads? all of the above? thanks :thumb:

jrussblues 06-28-2011 07:10 AM

I know teraflex makes a kit. Not sure if its for the tj or jk though.

UnlimitedLJ04 06-28-2011 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baabaa (Post 1336897)
Hi all

Just wondering if anyone had recommendations for a front brake upgrade? New slotted rotors? Calipers? Master cylinder? pads? all of the above? thanks :thumb:

www.vancopbs.com

new knuckles, bigger rotors & dual piston calipers

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/DSC01956.jpg

Stops AWESOME now.

Black Magic Brakes 06-28-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baabaa (Post 1336897)
Hi all

Just wondering if anyone had recommendations for a front brake upgrade? New slotted rotors? Calipers? Master cylinder? pads? all of the above? thanks :thumb:

Your brake upgrade will depend on your budget. If you are on 33's or smaller and not an Unlimited, you can benefit very well from our Black Magic Brake pads and Centric Premium rotors. About the best bang for the buck.

If you run 35's, they will still work very well for you, but you really do need to upgrade to one of the Vanco Kits.

You won't seen any improvement with a master cylinder swap of any kind until you increase the bore size in your front calipers a fair bit more than stock.

Slotted rotors won't do much for you and if you get a good quality, they sure won't do enough to justify the expense.

Jerry Bransford 06-28-2011 10:36 AM

X2, Blaine at Black Magic Brakes knows more about Jeep brakes than probably any other man alive. Forget gimmicks like cross-drilled, dimpled, or slotted rotors and concentrate on either the pads themselves like what Black Magic Brakes sells, or going with a good dual-piston caliper like VANCO makes to replace the wimpy single-piston caliper that comes from the factory.

I'm running Black Magic pads on my heavy 04 Rubicon with 35" tires and they are, absolutely, the best stopping pad you can get for your Jeep, bar none. They will make a VERY noticeable improvement in your braking performance that could only be improved upon by also going with the dual piston Big Brake kit from VANCO like I had on my previous TJ.

freeskier 06-28-2011 10:48 AM

10 Attachment(s)
I concur, Vanco, hydroboost, or black magic pads. Or all 3, if your rich enough.

I wish I knew about black magic pads before I replaced my pads last year.

I would also be willing to pay for the vanco kit just to get rid of the stupid stock design and how the pads slide on the knuckles, creating large divots.

Black Magic Brakes 06-28-2011 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeskier (Post 1337300)
I concur, Vanco, hydroboost, or black magic pads. Or all 3, if your rich enough.

I did that kit for Gerald on one of his rigs. The 17" Vanco Kit with EBC yellows in the Ram calipers and hydroboost. Amazingly good brakes and contrary to what anyone would have you believe, the pedal feel and modulation was near perfection without the tiniest bit of touchiness.

Here's a quote from a buddy who owns a WK and a TJ that I just finished upgrading the brakes on. Excuse the text speak and please note that the WK is on stock tires and the TJ is on 35's.

It's unbelievable that the TJ stops better than the Grand Cherokee.
Just swapped cars. I can't believe it. Whoa!!

Man, I took the Grand out because we are going to the river, and gotta tow the boat. I cant believe the TJ handles and brakes better than the Wk. It's crazy. I was used to gently applying pressure to atop the TJ, and it felt like I has to press extra hard to stop the Wk. It was always the other way around. I'm blown away. Poof!! Up in Big Bear, the TJ handled the corners like a sports car. Never did it squeal, do anything stupid (feel out of control). I love driving her. Finally it's a joy, instead of a mission

and my reply-

I do brakes. I am the Brake Wizard. Would you like your Grand
to stop better?

He's bringing it next week to get fitted up with Black Magic Brake pads and Centric Premium rotors. :thumb:

geiman 06-28-2011 03:53 PM

Listen to Blaine, he knows what he's talking about. After upgrading to 33s, braking was pretty weak with whatever cheap pads the previous owner put on; with BlackMagic pads and Centric rotors its like a whole new Jeep. I can easily lock up my 33s, even at speeds around 55-60 MPH; I can thank the deer in this area for helping me test that out. The first week after I had put the new pads and rotors on a deer jumped out in front of me and I just pressed on the break a little harder than normal and they already started to lock up; it truly startled me. They're a great bang for your buck as well; checkout your local pricing on quality brakes/rotors and then checkout a set from blackmagicbrakes.com.

I can only imagine how well the Vanco kit works; once I'm closer to needing new tires, I'm hoping to be ready for 35s and then I'll be getting the Vanco kit with Black Magic Brakes. Can't go wrong with that setup.

BillG.OTD 09-27-2011 08:01 PM

Okay, So I knew in growing my jeep, there would be upgrades needed to compensate for the lower gears, bigger tires etc. I didnt think about breaks for some reason. Just went to 35" Km2s and not as happy with the breaking. Just found this older thread and would like to know what I need to do (without breaking the bank) to upgrade the system. Can I get by with Black magic pads and centric rotors? Or do i need other upgrades as well?

geiman 09-27-2011 08:47 PM

Black Magic Breaks and Centric Rotors can make a very big difference, I would probably start there depending on your budget. The best solution would be the Vanco Big Brake upgrade, which can be bought here (savvyoffroad.com). The Black Magic Brakes should make a considerable difference, but as to how much I can't say for sure since I only have 33s at the moment. You can search for other's experiences to see how they've managed with 35s and the BMBs (JeepForum is probably a better place for that).

When I upgrade to 35s, I'm making the Vanco kit part of my upgrade path. It's definitely the way to go. But if you can't afford it all right now, the BMBs should help you at least stop a bit safer for now.

EDIT: I take that back, I didn't see the Vanco kit on BMBs website, I thought it was there previously. You can buy the Vanco kit from Savvy though, which is supporting the same group of people ;)

Black Magic Brakes 09-27-2011 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillG.OTD (Post 1609487)
Okay, So I knew in growing my jeep, there would be upgrades needed to compensate for the lower gears, bigger tires etc. I didnt think about breaks for some reason. Just went to 35" Km2s and not as happy with the breaking. Just found this older thread and would like to know what I need to do (without breaking the bank) to upgrade the system. Can I get by with Black magic pads and centric rotors? Or do i need other upgrades as well?

I'll put this here so other folks can benefit as well.

The stock replacement Black Magic Brake pads and Centric premium rotors were never intended for 35's. Some folks have found that they will work very well, but I would never recommend them as a solution for 35's.

The bad part is I offer the same caution to everyone looking for some way to make their 35's behave and 99% of the time, the response I get is "Well, they will stop better than what I had won't they?"

Of course they will because they are the best stopping stock replacement stuff you can get your hands on. But, they are still stock replacements and there is no way around that.

The reason the Vanco Big Brake kits exist is Van was building hydroboost for folks to run on their rigs with the stock components and they just aren't made for it. Sure you can make them lock up with hydroboost, but you are overflexing the calipers, you are wearing the divots in the knuckles deeper and you run a very high risk of folding the ends of the pad backing plates over.

If you are going to run 35's, you need a robust brake system at the axles and the stock stuff is not what anyone would consider robust.

Bottom line, if you are on a budget, get the Black Magic Brake pads and Centric premium rotors so you will at least stop better, and just understand that as time and money allow, you really need to take a look at something like the Vanco stuff.

freeskier 09-27-2011 10:13 PM

10 Attachment(s)
Since my first post I have gotten new tires and went back to 33s from my old worn 33s. I forgot what a difference an inch or two makes and everything sucks again. I've thoroughly thought about and researched my plans for 35s next go around and the 15" vanco kit is pretty high on that list. I couldn't imagine how poor the braking would be with 35s.

BillG.OTD 09-27-2011 10:44 PM

Great info, thanks for the detailed response. I went on the Savy website and looked at the PDF instructions. The system looks very stout. I understand that replacing the stock rotors and pads would be a huge improvement, but not a complete / permanent solution. I still may start there as it would be considerably less money than the $800 or so for the Vanco kit. It also looks labor intensive and I would probably opt for an install. Any idea of the installation charge? I dont see where any mods are done to the rear brakes, I assume that is because so much of the breaking is on the front that the rear is not as strained? Maybe just better pads on the rear? Again, thanks for the info.

Black Magic Brakes 09-28-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillG.OTD (Post 1610099)
Great info, thanks for the detailed response. I went on the Savy website and looked at the PDF instructions. The system looks very stout. I understand that replacing the stock rotors and pads would be a huge improvement, but not a complete / permanent solution. I still may start there as it would be considerably less money than the $800 or so for the Vanco kit. It also looks labor intensive and I would probably opt for an install. Any idea of the installation charge? I dont see where any mods are done to the rear brakes, I assume that is because so much of the breaking is on the front that the rear is not as strained? Maybe just better pads on the rear? Again, thanks for the info.

Just make sure the rear stuff is viable and functioning correctly and it will be fine.

As far as the labor, I charge folks 150 to install it which gets you a perfect installation, highly observant inspection of the rest of the system, very good break-in process, and I solve any problems I find along the way within reason.

Takes me about 3 hours start to finish including the break-in.

EDIT- if you do have a shop do it, avoid 4 wheel Parts. They are forbidden to purchase or install the kits with either Van or I as tech support. We won't take their calls any longer due to them screwing up every install of every kit they have touched.

If you just can't avoid it and they have problems, you are more than welcome to call us and get all the help we can give you and you can act as liaison between them and us.

geiman 09-28-2011 11:39 AM

Wow, that's pretty good. One of these days I'm going to accept a job on the west coast and move out there...

DevilDogDoc 09-28-2011 12:39 PM

I still have that email you sent them Blaine and it still makes me smile!

BillG.OTD 09-28-2011 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes (Post 1611163)
Just make sure the rear stuff is viable and functioning correctly and it will be fine.

As far as the labor, I charge folks 150 to install it which gets you a perfect installation, highly observant inspection of the rest of the system, very good break-in process, and I solve any problems I find along the way within reason.

Takes me about 3 hours start to finish including the break-in.

EDIT- if you do have a shop do it, avoid 4 wheel Parts. They are forbidden to purchase or install the kits with either Van or I as tech support. We won't take their calls any longer due to them screwing up every install of every kit they have touched.

If you just can't avoid it and they have problems, you are more than welcome to call us and get all the help we can give you and you can act as liaison between them and us.

To be quite honest, at $150 for the install I cant afford to not have it done. That seems very reasonable. As far as the folks at 4 wheel parts, I have had a few things done at the shop in Riverside, CA and have had good luck. They installed a Rubicon express lift kit, shocks etc as well as new 4.56 gears. You appear to be the break expert and I would certainly have it done through you. I had money set aside for my upgraded axle shafts and locker, but you are giving me cause for pause......

Jerry Bransford 09-28-2011 12:49 PM

$150 for three hours of Blaine's time to get everything installed and working perfectly is an amazing offer, go for it.

krughzn 09-28-2011 12:59 PM

Blaine recently installed the Vanco BBK on my rig and all I can say is "WOW!!!" When he installed them I was still on 33" KM2's. I recently put on 35" MTR's and again, "WOW!!!!" :dance: I'm driving my rig like I stole it now, and it's a blast.

I feel extremely lucky to live close enough to Blaine to have him work on my rig. $150 to have him install these brakes is a steal. When he says a perfect install, he means it. When he says he fixes problems along the way, he means it. He fixed more crap on mine that other shops had f'd up than he cares to remember. When I dropped my rig off, he walked around it one time. During that one walkaround, he fixed 3 problems I was having with it, completely unrelated to why I brought it to him. :appl:

Cry once and get the Vanco kit and Black Magic pads and rotors. After that, you'll be :D

BillG.OTD 09-28-2011 01:09 PM

Okay...Okay...enough said. Im sold. Nothing but good things being said about Blaine and the system. I guess if I cant safely get to the trailhead....I am not sure where BMBs are located, so I will send a PM to get in contact. Thanks

pwroth58 09-28-2011 01:18 PM

This is good info to have...not sure if I will ever make it to Cali but i'll keep you guys in mind should i make it out that way.

krughzn 09-28-2011 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillG.OTD (Post 1611363)
To be quite honest, at $150 for the install I cant afford to not have it done. That seems very reasonable. As far as the folks at 4 wheel parts, I have had a few things done at the shop in Riverside, CA and have had good luck. They installed a Rubicon express lift kit, shocks etc as well as new 4.56 gears. You appear to be the break expert and I would certainly have it done through you. I had money set aside for my upgraded axle shafts and locker, but you are giving me cause for pause......

You live in Riverside? Blaine lives very close to you. You should already have his number on speed dial. :bottom:

BillG.OTD 09-28-2011 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krughzn (Post 1611581)
You live in Riverside? Blaine lives very close to you. You should already have his number on speed dial. :bottom:

I dont actually live in Riverside, but its not far from me and either is Blaine. I have already called him and will be paying him a visit in the next week or so. Happy to have found another Jeep resource. Thanks


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