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-   -   Unfortunate design flaw (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/unfortunate-design-flaw-116247.html)

nycdude777 10-05-2011 01:43 PM

Unfortunate design flaw
 
1 Attachment(s)
I just recently learned about this unfortunate design flaw. It makes the axles shift left to right when the jeep goes up and down. It is stupid.

The problem is even worse when you lift the damn thing. Some really good lift kits MUST address this issue by dropping the trackbar to compensate for the increased angle from the lift. I don't know. It looks too weird.

Attachment 70978

kjeeper10 10-05-2011 01:51 PM

Where do I get a pink trac bar?

Redsand 10-05-2011 01:53 PM

unless you get a triangulted 4 link, but that would be several thousand bucks, but any vehicle with a trac bar will do that

Peepers 10-05-2011 01:53 PM

I'd rather have the green axel... much more unique I think... although it is only 2wd... unless they've made the smallest pumpkin in the world... would help with ground clearence issues...

nycdude777 10-05-2011 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 1630114)
Where do I get a pink trac bar?

Paint it with nail polish LOL

nycdude777 10-05-2011 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsand (Post 1630118)
unless you get a triangulted 4 link, but that would be several thousand bucks, but any vehicle with a trac bar will do that

And the rear track bar goes the other way, so when you jump on the highway doing 75, its good to know that your jeep is doing the ballerina with front wheels going left and the rear wheels going right....

kjeeper10 10-05-2011 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777

Paint it with nail polish LOL

Perfect :p

sneck 10-05-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 1630172)
Perfect :p

i know my next mod!

Redsand 10-05-2011 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777 (Post 1630143)
And the rear track bar goes the other way, so when you jump on the highway doing 75, its good to know that your jeep is doing the ballerina with front wheels going left and the rear wheels going right....

a triangulated 4 link will not allow it to move

GoldenSahara00 10-05-2011 02:26 PM

Is that your jeep?

JIMBOX 10-05-2011 02:31 PM

:whistling: So thats what they mean by "GO GREEN"

Whodathunk ?

:dance::rofl: JIMBO

xjrguy 10-05-2011 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenSahara00 (Post 1630223)
Is that your jeep?

Yeah really, is "Shadow Ninja Grey" a new 2012 color? :D

deathphoenix99 10-05-2011 02:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Easy Fix.

oilwell1415 10-05-2011 02:36 PM

Oh good God! I guess we all need to whine to Jeep that we want a Watts link to make sure the axle stays exactly in the middle under any circumstance possible.

Even though a track bar isn't perfect it's a helluva lot better than leaf springs because you can at least predict where the axle will be at any given time. I don't see anyone complaining about their leaf springs on a YJ doing a lousy job of keeping the axle centered.

nycdude777 10-05-2011 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsand (Post 1630206)
a triangulated 4 link will not allow it to move

See now that's what I'm talking about! The triangulated 4 link is the way to go. it seems like a much better design. Why isn't jeep doing that by default?

nycdude777 10-05-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathphoenix99 (Post 1630237)
Easy Fix.


@deathphoenix99 Ahahahahahaha, do that to your jeep and see how it rides! :thumb:

deathphoenix99 10-05-2011 02:51 PM

Like a tank.

JIMBOX 10-05-2011 03:02 PM

:whistling: Remember, if you "X" tracked the axle like that !

I would go STRAIGHT up and DOWN--no articulation !

Sure would ride good though-for a maller

:dance::rofl: JIMBO

nycdude777 10-05-2011 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JIMBOX (Post 1630331)
:whistling: Remember, if you "X" tracked the axle like that !

I would go STRAIGHT up and DOWN--no articulation !

Sure would ride good though-for a maller

:dance::rofl: JIMBO


Wrong! By crossing the track bar like that you would create vertical triangulation and the axle would not move at all. It would be the same as WELDING the axle to the frame, no springing action. :thumb: The only purpose it'd be good for is display in a museum of tanks LOL

JIMBOX 10-05-2011 03:12 PM

:whistling: Oh perish the thought of conn. at the "X" ctr-I was


Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777 (Post 1630338)
Wrong! By crossing the track bar like that you would create vertical triangulation and the axle would not move at all. It would be the same as WELDING the axle to the frame, no springing action. :thumb: The only purpose it'd be good for is display in a museum of tanks LOL

Considering sliding runners at each axle attachment and that would suffice for my MALL RAT !

:dance::rofl: JIMBO

MTH 10-05-2011 03:17 PM

Design flaw? Seriously?

This is just a consequence of using a track bar. There's nothing unusual about it and they are widely used. (See here.)

If you lift beyond 2" or so, you just get a longer track bar or (less preferred) a bracket that provides a little extra length. Problem solved.

nycdude777 10-05-2011 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JIMBOX (Post 1630353)
:whistling: Oh perish the thought of conn. at the "X" ctr-I was

Considering sliding runners at each axle attachment and that would suffice for my MALL RAT !

:dance::rofl: JIMBO

Now I know you're kidding. You're saying you would install runners to allow the track bars to slide back and forth along the axle? Woulnd't that destroy the purpose of the track bar? The track bar is supposed to have rigid fittings at each end, one to the body, one to the shaft, to prevent it from sliding side to side. Having two crossed trackbars would create a tension between them and neither one would be able to move...

Redsand 10-05-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777 (Post 1630258)
See now that's what I'm talking about! The triangulated 4 link is the way to go. it seems like a much better design. Why isn't jeep doing that by default?

VERY expensive, i looked into just doing the rear of my tj, and decided the cost isnt worth it

nycdude777 10-05-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 1630365)
Design flaw? Seriously?

This is just a consequence of using a track bar. There's nothing unusual about it and they are widely used. (See here.)

If you lift beyond 2" or so, you just get a longer track bar or (less preferred) a bracket that provides a little extra length. Problem solved.

Exactly, it is a consequence of bad design! It is the simplest solution with a known flaw, which is acceptable, and not easily avoidable, yet its a problem. Extending the track bar is workaround, a compensation to the problem. Not the solution. The fact that its used widely, does not mean its perfect. A solution may be best, relative to all other known solutions, but its not absolute best.:whistling:

JIMBOX 10-05-2011 03:27 PM

:whistling: Oh rats, thats why I never graduated from U of WD-


Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777 (Post 1630375)
Now I know you're kidding. You're saying you would install runners to allow the track bars to slide back and forth along the axle? Woulnd't that destroy the purpose of the track bar? The track bar is supposed to have rigid fittings at each end, one to the body, one to the shaft, to prevent it from sliding side to side. Having two crossed trackbars would create a tension between them and neither one would be able to move...

Oh the shame ofit all !

:dance::rofl: JIMBO

MTH 10-05-2011 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777 (Post 1630380)
Exactly, it is a consequence of bad design! It is the simplest solution with a known flaw, which is acceptable, and not easily avoidable, yet its a problem. Extending the track bar is workaround, a compensation to the problem. Not the solution. The fact that its used widely, does not mean its perfect. A solution may be best, relative to all other known solutions, but its not absolute best.:whistling:

By this logic, everything would be a "design flaw" unless it represents the pinnacle of functional design notwithstanding cost. And, even then, if it nevertheless still allowed for any adverse issues it would still be a "design flaw."

The track bar comes stock set to the appropriate length. It works absolutely fine and causes no adverse handling characteristics. If you significantly lift the Jeep, the stock track bar will start to become too short and will cause adverse handling characteristics. This is also true of your brake lines, shocks, and sway links.

You can fix the issue by getting a longer track bar to accomodate your lift. Just as you would with brake lines, shocks, or sway links. You could also "go cheap" by just getting a bracket to extend your existing track bar. Also just as you could do with brake lines, shocks, or sway links.

That isn't a "design flaw." It is simply a consequence of the design, which is appropriate, acceptable, and adequate.

nycdude777 10-05-2011 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 1630405)
By this logic, everything would be a "design flaw" unless it represents the pinnacle of functional design notwithstanding cost. And, even then, if it nevertheless still allowed for any adverse issues it would still be a "design flaw."

The track bar comes stock set to the appropriate length. It works absolutely fine and causes no adverse handling characteristics. If you significantly lift the Jeep, the stock track bar will start to become too short and will cause adverse handling characteristics. This is also true of your brake lines, shocks, and sway links.

You can fix the issue by getting a longer track bar to accomodate your lift. Just as you would with brake lines, shocks, or sway links. You could also "go cheap" by just getting a bracket to extend your existing track bar. Also just as you can do with brake lines, shocks, or sway links.

This isn't a "design flaw."

Yes, it is. :)

JIMBOX 10-05-2011 03:43 PM

:whistling: MTH-see what happens when you take the top off-


Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 1630405)
By this logic, everything would be a "design flaw" unless it represents the pinnacle of functional design notwithstanding cost. And, even then, if it nevertheless still allowed for any adverse issues it would still be a "design flaw."

The track bar comes stock set to the appropriate length. It works absolutely fine and causes no adverse handling characteristics. If you significantly lift the Jeep, the stock track bar will start to become too short and will cause adverse handling characteristics. This is also true of your brake lines, shocks, and sway links.

You can fix the issue by getting a longer track bar to accomodate your lift. Just as you would with brake lines, shocks, or sway links. You could also "go cheap" by just getting a bracket to extend your existing track bar. Also just as you could do with brake lines, shocks, or sway links.

That isn't a "design flaw." It is simply a consequence of the design, which is appropriate, acceptable, and adequate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777 (Post 1630413)
Yes, it is. :)

And it rains-

:dance::rofl: JIMBO

MTH 10-05-2011 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdude777 (Post 1630413)
Yes, it is. :)

Why? Do Jeep brake lines, shocks, and sway links suffer from a similar "design flaw"? How about the drive shafts, which will also need to be replaced if you lift too much?

MTH 10-05-2011 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JIMBOX (Post 1630421)
:whistling: MTH-see what happens when you take the top off-






And it rains-

:dance::rofl: JIMBO

My seats are all wet . . .


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