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-   -   2012 Rubi with flooded transmission (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/2012-rubi-with-flooded-transmission-130413.html)

Wolfeitz 12-31-2011 05:59 AM

2012 Rubi with flooded transmission
 
I really need some help/advice.

My new Rubicon has been wonder and problematic since I bought it in September. I have gone everywhere I could in this beasty, yet living on Florida's Space Coast that generally means mud rather than rocks (we have no rocks).

At around 2200 miles, while on pavement, the splines in between the Differential and the Transfer Case all came unspooled. The nearby dealership put them back in. At about 2700 miles I had the same symptoms, again, while driving down the street. I had it towed in and after 17 days I got it back sporting a new transfer case. (all under warranty)

About a week later I decided to take it out and make sure everything with still good and working with a little offroading. I did some hils and such which it handled wonderfully, and some mud that decorated it nicely, and then I went into a hole that trapped me. Silty thick mud packed into the tires so tightly that it made them into racing slicks and the 'water' came up to just below the doors - I could still open the doors and exit the vehicle without fear of any entering. A fellow 4x4'er strapped onto my rear tow loop and helped pull me out after being stuck for about 15 minutes or so.
Everything seemed fine, I drove home (still covered with mud) without incident.
The next morning I started it up and realized quickly that it would not shift out of second (automatic) and the check engine light came on. I limped into the dealership and they got back to me later telling me I would want to call my insurance company.
The differentials are flooded, and the transfer case is flooded, the transmission also is overfull. They put it up on the lift and pressure washed the mud off, opened up the transmission and found water and mud/sand in the transmission. They are recommending replacement of the entire transmission and since I had it off road they tell me that warranty will not cover any of this. I had it moved to another dealership and they said that based on the notes of the first place and their inspection, there is nothing that they can do either.
Oh and evidently the sway bar disconnect was damaged also.

The total bill they want to hit me with is just over $7000. Seven grand for water/mud that didn't even come up to my doors??
I don't have my Jeep here to be able to measure it but that water was less than 30" and yes, I was off road and got stuck but isn't this supposed to be an off road vehicle??? Shouldn't there be some expectation that you can actually take it off road??

If anyone has anything that would help, please let me know. I have not yet called my insurance company but I REALLY do not feel I should have to. I spent $37K on a Jeep and I expected I would be able to drive it off road yet here I am left with a very expensive paperweight after getting stuck once in a 'puddle'.

CorvusCorax 12-31-2011 06:07 AM

From what I've read on this forum(first time jeep owner) the water was probably deep enough to submerge the breathers thus allowing water into them now water logged parts.

daggo66 12-31-2011 06:08 AM

Did you read the owner's manual?

After crossing any water higher
than the bottom of the axle differentials, you should
inspect all of the vehicle fluids for signs of water ingestion

Water ingestion into the axles, transmission, transfer
case, engine or vehicle interior can occur if you
drive too fast or through too deep of water. Water
can cause permanent damage to engine, driveline
or other vehicle components, and your brakes will
be less effective once wet and/or muddy.
This vehicle is capable of crossing through water
at a depth of 30 inches (76 cm) at speeds no greater
than 5 mph (8 km/h). Water ingestion can occur

causing damage to your vehicle.



daggo66 12-31-2011 06:10 AM

Your warranty covers factory defects, not off roading mishaps. That is why they are suggesting you contact your insurance. If you tell them that it happened off road, you may not be covered unless it specifies in your contract.

In the future make sure your breather tubes are properly connected and routed higher.

Wolfeitz 12-31-2011 06:12 AM

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

daggo66 12-31-2011 06:14 AM

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/v...mmeCantSee.gif

Wolfeitz 12-31-2011 06:21 AM

So, basically, here is a Jeep, here are videos of the wonderful things you can do with your Jeep, but if you ever do them, you are an idiot because it can't actually do what we claim?

What a ridiculous load of crap. I understand it can only be warrantied to a certain degree but Jeeps are SUPPOSED to do this. They post the video ON THEIR WEBSITE!!
Jeep - Trail Rated - Water Fording

Maybe I'm just an idiot and expected too much but if I bought a Lamborghini and wasn't warrantied if I went over 70 mph I'd be pissed too. If I am not allowed to take it off road then I should have bought a friggin smart car and live life like the rest of the world.

daggo66 12-31-2011 06:25 AM

I know you're upset and angry, but it is what it is. A warranty is against factory defects. Yes Jeeps are made to go off road, but with that comes a certain amount of responsibility and skill. There are things clearly outlined in your manual that should be heeded before attempting to go off road. Water is bad mojo.

daggo66 12-31-2011 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfeitz (Post 1874522)

Did you switch out your tires? Those look like GY SRA's as opposed to the BFG MT's. Common sense should have told you to not attempt that water crossing with those tires.

Wolfeitz 12-31-2011 06:32 AM

If getting stuck in a little hole causes that much damage to a Jeep Rubicon, I argue that it IS a manufacturing defect - or, possibly, something that was done improperly when replacing the transfer case. Unfortunately the same mechanic was the one to first work on it this time so if something had been wrong we now have no way of knowing. The fact that they had to replace the transfer case means it had problems to begin with.

Wolfeitz 12-31-2011 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 1874552)
Did you switch out your tires? Those look like GY SRA's as opposed to the BFG MT's. Common sense should have told you to not attempt that water crossing with those tires.

No, those are the stock tires - that's why I couldn't get out of the hole - the mud packed into them so nicely they turned into racing slicks.

kjeeper10 12-31-2011 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfeitz
So, basically, here is a Jeep, here are videos of the wonderful things you can do with your Jeep, but if you ever do them, you are an idiot because it can't actually do what we claim?

What a ridiculous load of crap. I understand it can only be warrantied to a certain degree but Jeeps are SUPPOSED to do this. They post the video ON THEIR WEBSITE!!
Jeep - Trail Rated - Water Fording

Maybe I'm just an idiot and expected too much but if I bought a Lamborghini and wasn't warrantied if I went over 70 mph I'd be pissed too. If I am not allowed to take it off road then I should have bought a friggin smart car and live life like the rest of the world.

I see where you are coming from.
But if everyone filed a warranty claim for damages caused off road Chrysler would be in trouble.

How can you prove that you did not exceed the 30"?

jr1 12-31-2011 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfeitz (Post 1874537)

What a ridiculous load of crap. I understand it can only be warrantied to a certain degree but Jeeps are SUPPOSED to do this. They post the video ON THEIR WEBSITE!!
Jeep - Trail Rated - Water Fording

That sucks, but from the Jeep link you provided it says "Note: Do not attempt water fording unless depth is known to be less than 19 inches.". The pic of your stuck Jeep shows water a few inches from the top of the tire or close to 30". And the 15 minutes rocking and spinning the wheels probably didn't help with flying water and mud.

At least you have insurance, so that's good news.

daggo66 12-31-2011 06:45 AM

You still have some slight hope. Completely drain your differentials (remove the covers) and drain and flush your transmission. It might still be salvageable depending upon how much damage was done.

There is no doubt whatsoever, along with photographic proof, that this was due to user error. Sorry, but that's what it is.

daggo66 12-31-2011 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfeitz (Post 1874558)
If getting stuck in a little hole causes that much damage to a Jeep Rubicon, I argue that it IS a manufacturing defect - or, possibly, something that was done improperly when replacing the transfer case. Unfortunately the same mechanic was the one to first work on it this time so if something had been wrong we now have no way of knowing. The fact that they had to replace the transfer case means it had problems to begin with.

You can "argue" all you want, but it won't help. You screwed up. Now it;s time to fix it. Drain and refill everything and see what you've got.

Barrie 12-31-2011 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 1874580)
You can "argue" all you want, but it won't help. You screwed up. Now it;s time to fix it. Drain and refill everything and see what you've got.



X2! Doing a complete flush is not all that hard.

Wolfeitz 12-31-2011 07:17 AM

If that's the case then I can accept that however, I am absolutely disgusted that they tout this vehicle as being this great beast with all their flashy videos and it's all a load of crap. Fortunately I can get my silent revenge, my friend shopping for a new Rubicon will now not be buying a Jeep and two other friends who were looking for used ones are not going to either. If all we have to off road in here is mud and water then a Jeep is a waste here. It'll go through fine but then breaks afterwards.
Truly disappointed.

4Jeepn 12-31-2011 07:30 AM

Sorry to hear about the issues. The issue with the auto and water is, not the fording, but being stopped or stuck in it. It allows the trans to suck up all the crap in the water/mud. This is true with any auto not just a jeep. As stated I would flush the trans, replace the filter etc, same with the t-case, diffs, oil.. any fluid and see if that helps. Also look into extending the vent tubes.

demarpaint 12-31-2011 07:40 AM

Sorry to hear about your problems, I honestly don't see how Chrysler could be to blame here. Good luck with your insurance company too, I don't see how they would pay out either. At this point the best you can probably do is take it to a local independent shop have them flush out all the fluids, change the transmission filter and hope for the best. Honestly I don't think an automatic transmission will fare well, a MT would have a better shot at surviving being filled with muck and junk. JMO

MTH 12-31-2011 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Jeepn
Sorry to hear about the issues. The issue with the auto and water is, not the fording, but being stopped or stuck in it. It allows the trans to suck up all the crap in the water/mud. This is true with any auto not just a jeep. As stated I would flush the trans, replace the filter etc, same with the t-case, diffs, oil.. any fluid and see if that helps. Also look into extending the vent tubes.

^^This.

You don't understand how offroading works. It places enormous burdens on vehicles. A Rubicon is incredibly capable, but if you're going to use it like that, you're going to need recovery gear and a lot of maintenance. And it's going to be on your dime.

Nobody just wheels their jeep (or any offroad vehicle) through crap like that and then just drives it on the road like nothing ever happened. It needs thorough cleaning and ongoing maintenance, and checks and double checks.

NBA players don't just walk on the court and play, and serious offroaders don't just jump in the mud. It's a hobby that reaches beyond that unless you want serious problems. Even military grade vehicles would need involved and consistent maintenance to handle that stuff without experiencing part failures.

That's reality, not manufacturing defects.

willee51 12-31-2011 07:55 AM

Not placing blame...........
 
............... but at 65-yo, this is a prime example why I avoid depths deeper than the "bottom" of my defferentials :eek:

:popcorn:

Wolfeitz 12-31-2011 08:18 AM

Expensive lesson. I should have bought an Exterra because evidently I can not go anywhere that I wouldn't have gone in that and I could have saved $20K. Sorry, $27K now. Silly me for expecting a Jeep to be able to do what the dealer tells you it can.

One does have to question why Jeep wouldn't make breather tubes standard?!? It would seem to be such an easy, inexpensive, thing...

Obviously had I known, I would have spent half as much making the necessary improvements so that I could go through stuff like that - instead I am stuck replacing parts just to get it back on the road.

Need to look for a big sticker that reads warning, off road vehicle - do not operate off road. ;)

Mud Dawg 12-31-2011 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfeitz (Post 1874693)
Expensive lesson. I should have bought an Exterra because evidently I can not go anywhere that I wouldn't have gone in that and I could have saved $20K. Sorry, $27K now. Silly me for expecting a Jeep to be able to do what the dealer tells you it can.

One does have to question why Jeep wouldn't make breather tubes standard?!? It would seem to be such an easy, inexpensive, thing...

Obviously had I known, I would have spent half as much making the necessary improvements so that I could go through stuff like that - instead I am stuck replacing parts just to get it back on the road.

Need to look for a big sticker that reads warning, off road vehicle - do not operate off road. ;)

:nonono:

kjeeper10 12-31-2011 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfeitz
Expensive lesson. I should have bought an Exterra because evidently I can not go anywhere that I wouldn't have gone in that and I could have saved $20K. Sorry, $27K now. Silly me for expecting a Jeep to be able to do what the dealer tells you it can.

One does have to question why Jeep wouldn't make breather tubes standard?!? It would seem to be such an easy, inexpensive, thing...

Obviously had I known, I would have spent half as much making the necessary improvements so that I could go through stuff like that - instead I am stuck replacing parts just to get it back on the road.

Need to look for a big sticker that reads warning, off road vehicle - do not operate off road. ;)

They do- and that is where the 30 inches comes into play, the diffs run up the shock towers and tranny/tcase, somewhere up behind the engine block.

Some good reading -

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-...r-crossing.htm

MTH 12-31-2011 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfeitz
Expensive lesson. I should have bought an Exterra because evidently I can not go anywhere that I wouldn't have gone in that and I could have saved $20K. Sorry, $27K now. Silly me for expecting a Jeep to be able to do what the dealer tells you it can.

One does have to question why Jeep wouldn't make breather tubes standard?!? It would seem to be such an easy, inexpensive, thing...

Obviously had I known, I would have spent half as much making the necessary improvements so that I could go through stuff like that - instead I am stuck replacing parts just to get it back on the road.

Need to look for a big sticker that reads warning, off road vehicle - do not operate off road. ;)

An Xterra wouldn't have made it there to begin with, and if it had you'd be in the same position.

Breather tubes are stock, though you may have yanked them loose.

Dealers hardly ever know what they're talking about.

The point is that offroading is a full fledged hobby. If you decided to go mountain climbing, would you really think all you needed was a high end pair of shoes and a some rope? Do you believe avid cyclists just buy a high end bike and that's all there is to it? My wife does triathlons, and I can tell you there's a lot more to bike performance than a fancy bike--they need repairs, maintenance, mods, etc. That's on top of the $2k bike. How about guys who speed race their cars--you think they just roll off the lot and that's it?

Believe me, your Rubi can go places no other widely available commercial vehicle in this country can. But that pic you posted is a serious bit of mudding. Like any piece of high end performance equipment, if you want your Rubi to routinely perform at that level it's going to have to be maintained, prepped, adjusted, maybe modded, etc. On top of that, you're going to need to refine your technique.

Think about offroading as a sport, like cycling. What you've done is buy the best "bike" on the market. But that doesn't mean that you're going to dust Lance Armstrong. You've got a lot of learning to do, both in terms of technique and equipment performance/maintenance.

Stick around here and hook up with a local wheeling group. Much to learn, young Jedi.

dwindeck 12-31-2011 08:53 AM

Not sure who's side to take. Your not running the stock Rubicon mud tires, so your tires are a little smaller, on the drivers side the water level isn't above your rock rails so I say its only about 19 inches, the trans is up higher than the water by a couple inches. Unless the picture is deceiving it doesn't look like the passenger side is a whole lot deeper.

dwindeck 12-31-2011 08:59 AM

Also $7000 at the stealership is $3500 somewhere else. If it comes to needing a whole new tranny...1) could a good tranny shop just rebuild/replace bad components, 2) check with Burnsville Off Road, AEV or Nemises not sure if they keep that tranny for the Hemi conversions.

daggo66 12-31-2011 09:00 AM

MTH is 100 percent correct. The Rubicon is a tool. It does not make the driver an "off roader". Just as you had to learn how to drive on the road many years ago, there is a certain skill set involved with wheeling.
Quote:

Newbie to off roading - what is the difference between all these lockers and what you get in the Rubi which you apparently can not engage unless you are in 4L under 18mph?
Instead of looking at the water hole and thinking, " I've got a Rubicon, let's go", you should have gotten out and checked the depth and condition of the ground under the water. Other things to consider is how long the water has been there. I was out one time, without another vehicle, and saw a water hole. I got out and it didn't appear to be too deep. Then I noticed some animal life in the water. That told me that this was a fresh water spring and not a puddle from run off. The bottom was likely very gooey and full of sediment. I chose to avoid it.

Those are the types of decisions that have to be made. You learned an expensive lesson. The Rubicon is the most capable factory off road vehicle, when used correctly.

We are all very sorry for what you are going through, but you're not going to find anyone here to agree with you. All is not lost. Get your tools out and get to work.

Completely remove your differential covers. You will need some black RTV to put them back on. The bolts should be torqued to 25ft lbs.

Project-JK.com - Jeep JK Wrangler Resource Jeep JK Wrangler Maintenance Differential Fluid Change Write-Up

This is for the 07-11 auto trans, but the principles are the same. Project-JK.com - Jeep JK Wrangler Resource Jeep JK Wrangler 42RLE Automatic Transmission Service

Good luck and let us know if you have any questions along the way. Everyone here will be glad to help. If you were in MD, I'd even help you get it done. I'm sure you can find someone nearby. It's really not that big of an undertaking. Even if nothing went wrong it would have been SOP to check all of your fluids.

Vtlaxsocr12 12-31-2011 09:01 AM

I've run my 2011 rubi in water almost up to the engine line and rolled out of there no problem and I did mud probably up to the bottom of my differentials with no problem
Have been driving since and absolutely nothing, my opinion it's manufacturers problem because everyone on this forum knows that stock rubicon should be able to do a little mudding, I mean let's be serious. And I trust daggo66's opinion because he's helped me with a bunch of stuff for my 2011, but I mean this is jeep and a rubicon at that, first off the differentials should not be leaking, that's manufacturers problem, and second off if the freaking transmission is flooding after that, then my transmission should be done right now

Vtlaxsocr12 12-31-2011 09:05 AM

And I haven't checked my transmission or differentials for water or mud but I don't believe I'd be driving everyday if they were


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