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-   -   2012 wrangler 3.6 hd alt (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/2012-wrangler-3-6-hd-alt-140938.html)

MOONSHADOW 02-20-2012 12:09 PM

2012 wrangler 3.6 hd alt
 
GREETING!
My customer has a 2012 Wrangler Rubicon with the new 3.6.
We have installed a whole list of mods per the customers request. I am looking to replace the stock alternator with a HD unit, and have been unable to find any for this engine size.

Any ideas???

Thanks!!

SilverBolt 02-20-2012 12:12 PM

Mean Green. Quadratec

MOONSHADOW 02-20-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverBolt (Post 2052672)
Mean Green. Quadratec


I looked at the MG1388, but that's for the 3.8 and will not fit the 3.6. Mean Green does not make one for the 3.6 yet.

nwbronco 02-20-2012 02:36 PM

I do not think the alternator needs to be replaced. Possibly adding another battery and then an auto switch for discharge isolation. What is the rating for the 2012 alternator?

Bob K.

MOONSHADOW 02-20-2012 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwbronco (Post 2053113)
I do not think the alternator needs to be replaced. Possibly adding another battery and then an auto switch for discharge isolation. What is the rating for the 2012 alternator?

Bob K.

Hi Bob,

The OEM P/N is 68078950AA, it is rated at 160a.

My customer wants 200-300a. We had added a large winch and more lights than the White House christmas tree. In addition it will have radio equip and roof mounted red/blue light bar. :thumb:

Eaglektd 02-20-2012 03:16 PM

I want to see a picture of this monster police jeep. It sounds sweet.

MOONSHADOW 02-20-2012 03:46 PM

LOL.. I'll see what I can do.
Thus far it has flood lights, spot lights, HD head lamps, Warn Power Plant dual winch, IPF driving lights, Hella micro FF led lights, air compressor.
No to mention the non-electrical stuf, skid plates, ARB front & rear bumpers, Garvin wilderness rack, rear rack, shovel mount,tire carrier, sliders...and the list goes on. Parts alone are over $12k not counting the ligth bar, FLIR and radio equiptment....etc.
This unit is being set up as a search and rescue rig.

MOONSHADOW 02-20-2012 03:54 PM

Update:
I have managed to locate an OEM alt (p/n 56029597AA) rated at 180a. Still not what I am looking for, but it is a step up from stock...

kik 02-20-2012 04:07 PM

With all of that electrical I agree that you should be looking at a dual battery set up. I think that's more important in this case rather than trying to locate an alternator that will fit.

MOONSHADOW 02-20-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kik (Post 2053495)
With all of that electrical I agree that you should be looking at a dual battery set up. I think that's more important in this case rather than trying to locate an alternator that will fit.


I agree. Trying to sway the customer that way. They still insist on a larger alt... they seem to feel that without it and a night rescue that calls on the winch and lights they will need a heafty alt to keep up with demand. :banghead:

kik 02-20-2012 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOONSHADOW (Post 2053554)
I agree. Trying to sway the customer that way. They still insist on a larger alt... they seem to feel that without it and a night rescue that calls on the winch and lights they will need a heafty alt to keep up with demand. :banghead:

You can only get the max alternator that will fit for a 12 application. If it's a 180 then that's it. I'd be curious to see what you find that will work. You're dealing with the canbus so you don't want to fry anything either.

bengen1 02-20-2012 08:31 PM

have you looked into a SPOD for all that aux lighting
Jeep JK 2007-2012

nwbronco 02-20-2012 09:16 PM

You can try any local re-build shops and see if they can re-build it to match a higher output. You might even try Premier Welding. They do customer stuff for DC welding.


How are the lights wired? If it's all tied to the stock wiring system it'll probably toss the driver out of the seat when they are powered up. Seriously though, the canbus will control any/all electrical output.

Good luck with it. And you already know that we want to see this thing.

MOONSHADOW 02-21-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengen1 (Post 2054637)
have you looked into a SPOD for all that aux lighting
Jeep JK 2007-2012


Yes we have and are installing the SPoD system. :thumb:

Also the 180 OEM is no longer available (gotta luv Chrysler!), so we are back to the stock 160. Am waiting for the customer to decide if we are going with the dual batteries. I think this is the best option at this point. Perhaps Mean Green will come out with an alt in the future and we can upgrade it at that time.

ModernProspector 02-21-2012 01:31 PM

My experience with HD charging systems for auxillary equipment suggests that the following is the best bet in the long run:

Install somewhere (the hard part) an additional stock-type alternator to an auxillary battery that feeds the non-essential (to driving) extra equipment. That way, if the extra stuff overworks the alternator, the stock electrical system is unaffected. A stock-type alternator is easier to source if it burns out, is way cheaper to replace, and the auxilarilly system can be disconected if something goes wrong, and you can still drive home. Two stock 160 amp alternators can supply double the low-speed output than a HD alternator wound to produce the same power, which is usually where weak charging is a problem. Pulsing weak charging due to the alternator not putting enough out, especially at low speeds can cause considerable computer grief, set codes, make headlights pulse, etc. Separating the charging system into stock and and auxillary systems provides the greatest overall reliability.

Mounting an additional alternator can be a severe headache, but not as bad as roasting stock wiring and electronics, and a tow home from somewhere. The newer the vehicle, the greater the challenge of installing an additional aternator, due to space considerations. It helps if you can manage a separate belt and tensioner for the auxillary alternator also, eliminating stock belt wear and squealing, and stock accessory bearing wear problems. Also replacing the belt with a weird one without a stock equivalent can add extra aggravation when ordering one. It takes considerable horsepower to produce 160 amps, let alone 300, and all that horsepower must be supplied by the drive belt and traction via the tensioner. Manual tension on the accessory alternator belt is easier, but in a high-output scenario, requires constant vigilance or the belt will roast in no time.

The stock alternator likely has a computer feed for the alternator regulator (thats the way most Chryslers worked for a number of years but I haven't looked at the present Jeep set up), but I've used a (say it isn't so) common Ford external regulator and grounded the other field terminal of the alternator. The Ford-type regulator is the old square flat four-pin unit. These are reliable and available in Extra HD versions readily.

The Ford-type regulator install is the answer for constantly overcharging (15 V plus) older Dodge trucks (especially the diesels) and cars also, BTW.

MP

MOONSHADOW 02-21-2012 03:29 PM

Ok... the has agreed to dual batteries. Problem now is where to mount the second battery. As you can see from the pic, it is pretty tight under the hood....

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/...221120828a.jpg

Suggestions?.....

nwbronco 02-21-2012 03:34 PM

You should be able to yank the stock battery and get a couple of yellow tops in there perpendicular to the current battery layout.


Bob K.

MOONSHADOW 02-21-2012 04:27 PM

Yellow tops are 10"x6-7/8"x7-13/16". It might be possible if we removed the tray and fabricated a new one, as there is no way to fit them with the stock tray, but even then it's going to be really tight. I still need to measure the space where the tray sits. :facepalm:

bofa 02-21-2012 04:43 PM

Edit: whoops... what I linked wasn't for the '12. See below.

seanpholman 02-21-2012 04:57 PM

As far as I know, there is no dual battery kits for 2012s yet. There isn't enough room under the hood with the new 3.6 for a tray (it is a much wider engine and the battery tray is situated differently), so you could do one under the rear seat and loose the folding ability, or mount it in the rear "trunk" area with some modding.

Every kit out there right now only fits 3.8L ('07-'11) vehicles.

--Sean

2012-Rubicon 02-21-2012 05:27 PM

Ohio generator

Bikeman71 02-21-2012 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanpholman (Post 2058248)
As far as I know, there is no dual battery kits for 2012s yet. There isn't enough room under the hood with the new 3.6 for a tray (it is a much wider engine and the battery tray is situated differently), so you could do one under the rear seat and loose the folding ability, or mount it in the rear "trunk" area with some modding.

Every kit out there right now only fits 3.8L ('07-'11) vehicles.

--Sean

Is it safe to mount a battery in the cab? Is there a battery that is sealed and is guaranteed to be safe? If so, I would like to use my National Luna Powerpack that I pulled out of the back of my Tacoma, but again which battery is dependable and safe?

C.L. 02-21-2012 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOONSHADOW (Post 2057976)
Ok... the has agreed to dual batteries. Problem now is where to mount the second battery. As you can see from the pic, it is pretty tight under the hood....

Suggestions?.....

Put it where the air box is, and stick a sock over the throttle body...

/Seriously, why is there less room under the hood every time they put a smaller engine in there?!

seanpholman 02-21-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikeman71 (Post 2058842)
Is it safe to mount a battery in the cab? Is there a battery that is sealed and is guaranteed to be safe? If so, I would like to use my National Luna Powerpack that I pulled out of the back of my Tacoma, but again which battery is dependable and safe?

AGM/Gel would be the only one's remotely safe, but even then I would be careful. Optima says "yes" on their website with the following clarifications:

"Trunk/Interior Mounting If your battery is mounted inside the passenger compartment or trunk (common in many European makes), the battery must be vented to the outside of the vehicle. OPTIMA group 27, 51, 78, 34C, and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose."


--Sean

seanpholman 02-21-2012 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.L. (Post 2058899)
Put it where the air box is, and stick a sock over the throttle body...

/Seriously, why is there less room under the hood every time they put a smaller engine in there?!

Well, the easy answer is because each engine is physically bigger? :D

The 4.0L was long and narrow, leaving plenty of room on the sides. The 3.8 went to a V design, meaning it was much wider than the 4.0L, taking up that free space and the 3.6L is an OHC design, meaning the engine is much, much wider at the shoulders vs. the OHV 3.8L. That small amount of displacement difference doesn't really override those features inherent to each respective engine design.

--Sean

MOONSHADOW 02-23-2012 02:48 PM

UPDATE:
Ok after taking several measurments, and consulting with several of my techs, we think we may be able to mod a factory tray to fit 2 yellow tops. We will need to relocate the evap purge, but not a big deal. I have ordered a new tray and will attemp the mods when it gets here. I will post pics and details as me move along.

kbwwolf 02-23-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOONSHADOW (Post 2066457)
UPDATE:
Ok after taking several measurments, and consulting with several of my techs, we think we may be able to mod a factory tray to fit 2 yellow tops. We will need to relocate the evap purge, but not a big deal. I have ordered a new tray and will attemp the mods when it gets here. I will post pics and details as me move along.

Here's a thread from a recent member, CG3, who added a dual battery setup to her rig. Some good tips in there for how to get it done.

Dual Battery Install

EDIT: Oops, never mind. She's got an '11. Thought she had a '12. :hide:

SilverBolt 02-23-2012 06:26 PM

Also look at Odessey Batteries (AGM). More power than the Optima's in a smaller package. Expensive but great quality.

LBrito 06-20-2012 09:06 PM

So, what was the final result of this?
I have a dual battery tray for my 2012 from Benchmark Designs. I've yet to receive my top clamp for it, so haven't installed it as of yet. But, they stacked 2 34/78 Yellow Tops vertically, rather then horizontally as was typical for the 3.8L. It can be done. I'm curious to what your solution was. I'll post mine as soon as it gets completed, but given that the first part of the tray took 4 months to arrive, it may be a bit of a wait to get the top clamp...

SilverSport 06-20-2012 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBrito (Post 2495880)
So, what was the final result of this?
I have a dual battery tray for my 2012 from Benchmark Designs. I've yet to receive my top clamp for it, so haven't installed it as of yet. But, they stacked 2 34/78 Yellow Tops vertically, rather then horizontally as was typical for the 3.8L. It can be done. I'm curious to what your solution was. I'll post mine as soon as it gets completed, but given that the first part of the tray took 4 months to arrive, it may be a bit of a wait to get the top clamp...

I wonder how much space between the top battery and the hood?


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