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-   -   Help-Death Wobble & No Experience (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/help-death-wobble-and-no-experience-141205.html)

Roxanne 02-21-2012 09:56 AM

Help-Death Wobble & No Experience
 
Okay guys, I have the death wobble. I bought a 2007 Jeep Wrangler Sahara the day before Christmas Eve, and it did it for the first time on Christmas Eve. This is absolutely not to discredit girls in any way, because I know of some awesome girls who know every last thing about cars, but I know NOTHING! This is my problem-

The dealership I bought my Jeep from told me they fixed it. It has done it really badly 3 times in the past week and I called them to set up another appointment. I emailed them first with no response, and I honestly only get legitimate responses when my boyfriend talks to them, which makes me even more mad. So I need your help- they claim to have "never heard of the Death Wobble" and say they put the recommended fix on it before, but from what I've gathered is that it is very specific things that can cause it, and there are tons of them. All I can tell you is that I only have a 2 inch lift on the thing and that's really all that's been done to it.

Can you guys PLEASE help me by letting me know what I should have them start off looking for? I drive 70 miles round trip to work over a mountain with plenty of bumps and I can't risk it every day, but I don't want to give up on my Jeep!

kjeeper10 02-21-2012 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxanne
Okay guys, I have the death wobble. I bought a 2007 Jeep Wrangler Sahara the day before Christmas Eve, and it did it for the first time on Christmas Eve. This is absolutely not to discredit girls in any way, because I know of some awesome girls who know every last thing about cars, but I know NOTHING! This is my problem-

The dealership I bought my Jeep from told me they fixed it. It has done it really badly 3 times in the past week and I called them to set up another appointment. I emailed them first with no response, and I honestly only get legitimate responses when my boyfriend talks to them, which makes me even more mad. So I need your help- they claim to have "never heard of the Death Wobble" and say they put the recommended fix on it before, but from what I've gathered is that it is very specific things that can cause it, and there are tons of them. All I can tell you is that I only have a 2 inch lift on the thing and that's really all that's been done to it.

Can you guys PLEASE help me by letting me know what I should have them start off looking for? I drive 70 miles round trip to work over a mountain with plenty of bumps and I can't risk it every day, but I don't want to give up on my Jeep!

2 sticky's you should read.

First is on DW itself
2nd is concerning Trac-bar bolts.

Check them out... Very informative :)

My guess is improperly installed lift.

Roxanne 02-21-2012 10:05 AM

Thank you SO much. I'll check those out now!

kbwwolf 02-21-2012 10:06 AM

kjeeper must be on his phone. Here are the threads he's referring to:

Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles

The Importance of changing out stock bolts!!

MTH 02-21-2012 10:08 AM

As linked abouve, here's a detailed explanation: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/dia...les-78034.html.

Note that all shakes/shimmies/etc. are not "Death Wobble." This link above includes some great explanation of those too. In other words, it'll help you decide if you've REALLY got death wobble, or something else.

If you really do have death wobble, then here's an updated checklist for repair: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/dia...ml#post2052524 (it's a later post in the same thread). The changing bolts thread is a good one too.

Now if the dealership says they have never heard of it, that means they're either (a) lying or (b) incompetent. Either way, you really don't want them doing the work.

So you've got to decide if you're willing to pay somebody independently, force a return of the vehicle, or just let the dealer attempt to "learn" by repairing your Jeep. If you pick the latter option, be prepared to keep going back again and again and again until they figure it out. While potentially pricier, I'd pick the first option if I had the extra cash.

No matter who you use to fix it, print out the material linked above and present it to the technicians.

Roxanne 02-21-2012 10:08 AM

Thank you!

I bought the Jeep with the lift on it already, so I have no idea if it was done properly. I will have them check it out when I take it to get it looked at again!

kbwwolf 02-21-2012 10:11 AM

You should read all of the first one. True DW is very specific, and almost always the result of an issue with the trackbar...the bolts weren't torqued to spec, they weren't torqued with the Jeep sitting with all it's weight on the ground and the bushings got in bind, etc.

With true DW you won't be able to drive your Jeep. Speeding up or slowing down won't stop the violent shaking. Only way to do that is to come to a dead stop.

There are lots of other things that can cause bad shimmies, shakes, etc. Hence the name of that thread.

The second link (on bolts), is from a member who figured out that the bolts Chrysler has been using in the Wranglers are smaller than they should be, among other issues...

If you read the first few pages of that one, you'll get the gist, plus know where to order the bolts from, how to install em, and so on.

yomondo 02-21-2012 10:14 AM

Dealers tend to think that replacing the steering stabilizer will fix it, which is incorrect.

Yah read that death wobble sticky that the others pointed you to. By far the most common cause is track bar related. Bolts not tight enough, holes wallowed out, or worn bushings.

For me, worn out ball joints was the cause of my death wobble.

If possible, avoid driving it until you think you've solved it. Every occurrence of death wobble can cause more damage.

kjeeper10 02-21-2012 10:15 AM

There you have it :thumb:

Good luck and keep us posted.

kbwwolf 02-21-2012 10:15 AM

Regarding your dealer (who sounds like an ass if he's ignoring you)...

Not sure where in NC you are, but you can take your Jeep to any dealer you want to.

You can also often find local Jeepers right here on WF who'd be willing to help you out for no more than some beer & pizza. That's what I'd do, personally.

Lotta NC peeps on this forum, though I find em to be pushy, unclean and quite annoying. :D

Kidding.

They'll be along soon, I'm sure. Good luck! :thumb:

Roxanne 02-21-2012 10:20 AM

You are all the best, I'm so glad I posted this thread. I'll get started reading those links now! Yes, the dealer is being very rude but I can't say I haven't yelled at them because I definitely did when my jeep freaked out twice within 10 minutes!

I would give someone beer and pizza AND wings for two weeks straight if they fixed this, haha! With spring coming (fingers crossed) I just want to take the top off of it and take it everywhere!! Hopefully I can get to that point :)

Thank you guys!

yomondo 02-21-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxanne (Post 2057108)
I would give someone beer and pizza AND wings for two weeks straight if they fixed this, haha!

Free beer, pizza and wings for two weeks straight might be worth the air fare. LOL. Good luck.

rs87277 02-21-2012 10:42 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLfjnVMsVLQ

Roxanne 02-21-2012 10:45 AM

I just finished watching this, and the more I read/watch, the more convinced I am that the dealership I bought it from is incompetent.

PTaylor 02-21-2012 10:46 AM

The dealership you bought it from, is it a Chrysler dealership that sells new and older jeeps or some other dealership that someone traded the jeep in for some other brand. The only reason I ask is because, if I bought a used jeep from say, a Kia dealership that someone used as a trade in, then they probably wouldn't know anything about DW and possibly wouldn't know how to handle it.

One thing you could do is take it to a couple of front end shops, give a description of the problem to them, see if they can take a look, maybe give you a free look over and an estimate of what they think is wrong and what it would take to fix it. Get something in writing maybe, if possible. If there is a shop somewhere locally that deals with off road vehicles or Jeeps in particular that would be better.

Once done, now you got a few ideas from people who deal with front ends on a daily basis as to what is causing the problem and what it will take to fix it. You can take it to the dealership and say "hey, this is what a few others think is wrong, and putting a stabilizer on there is a band aid."

They can either take a look at those items and fix them themselves or maybe send it out and have a front end shop do it for them.


I hate to hear this, I've had it before and know how much of a pain it is to figure out and dealing with someone after a sale is frustrating. I had to finally convince a place that was working on my jeep to send it to a damn real jeep dealership to finish up everything because they were too incompetent to do it themselves.

Roxanne 02-21-2012 10:55 AM

That's what I asked them to do this time, because I bought it as a trade-in at a Chevrolet dealership. So, I guess I can't completely blame them for not knowing how to fix it, I'm more annoyed with my salesman for claiming to not know what it is (I've worked in sales, you should know your product, kinks and all!). I am pretty sheltered when it comes to cars, and it took me one search on the internet to stumble across the term Death Wobble.

Anyway, I only got the 30 day warranty on it. The first time I took it in was within 30 days, but now it isn't. My arguement is that since I did take it when the problem occurred and they failed to fix it, they should do it correctly and for free. They told me that they want me to take them out on the road in it so they can see what it does (I'm guessing because they don't believe me), and then they are going to send it to an actual Jeep dealership.

I would LOVE to take it to a shop that I legit trust, but I am also not trying to fork over all this money right now. But, I am definitely going to print out a few of these articles and take them to the technicians there, and I might stop by the shop where I trust the guys and see if they will take a look at it, they are usually pretty great about doing things like that!

kjeeper10 02-21-2012 11:10 AM

How many miles?



I would get the wheels of the ground and check the obvious things first.
How are your tires,Balanced?

Some good vids on YouTube about ball joints. The factory balljoints are prone to fail.
Then check for play in the TB's/CA's
Have someone turn the wheel left and right, any clanking/some thing lose.

It might be something as simple as the TB/bolts.
A new bolt kit-with bigger shouldered bolts-cost $60-$70. Regardless a great upgrade that many do the same time with a lift install.

I would take a peak myself before paying someone to diagnose an easy fix (if the case)

Ken

Roxanne 02-21-2012 11:18 AM

It has about 48K on it right now. They aligned and balanced the tires the first time I took it in, around the end of December/beginning of January. But I had someone tell me recently that it looked like to them that my front right tire didn't have the same amount of air in it, so I will have to check that out tonight. My steering wheel is also very obviously not aligned, but I don't know if that would have anything to do with it.

I have decided I 100% gave the wobble though, after reading/seeing what the true death wobble should feel like it perfectly describes what has happened to me each of the 5 times I have had it happen.

I will have someone that knows what all of that is check it out before I pay someone to do it (I trust my boyfriend and my friends more than myself on this!)

kjeeper10 02-21-2012 11:26 AM

Does it track(drive) straight if you let off the
steering wheel?

Some more reading for you :D
Explains how to center steering.

http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-write-...-end-alignment

Roxanne 02-21-2012 11:31 AM

Nope it veers off to the right when I let off the wheel. The dealership must think I'm dumb, because I told them it wasn't aligned, so they came back and told me that the tires were perfectly aligned and that they even re-aligned them, and that what I was feeling was the crown in the road that allows the water to run off, and I wasn't used to it because this is a bigger vehicle. Well, I'm not dumb, I know what a crown in the road feels like, and my whole steering wheel is sitting at a 45 degree angle to the right haha.

Thanks for the more reading, I feel like when I take my Jeep back they won't know what to say after I tell them what's wrong!

Also, I wasn't going to take my Jeep until Friday, but now i'm kind of terrified to drive it. Should I just suck it up and and take it on back tonight? I'm busy but it isn't worth me wrecking or messing it up more.

kjeeper10 02-21-2012 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxanne
Nope it veers off to the right when I let off the wheel. The dealership must think I'm dumb, because I told them it wasn't aligned, so they came back and told me that the tires were perfectly aligned and that they even re-aligned them, and that what I was feeling was the crown in the road that allows the water to run off, and I wasn't used to it because this is a bigger vehicle. Well, I'm not dumb, I know what a crown in the road feels like, and my whole steering wheel is sitting at a 45 degree angle to the right haha.

Thanks for the more reading, I feel like when I take my Jeep back they won't know what to say after I tell them what's wrong!

Also, I wasn't going to take my Jeep until Friday, but now i'm kind of terrified to drive it. Should I just suck it up and and take it on back tonight? I'm busy but it isn't worth me wrecking or messing it up more.

Woah!!!

Something is not right with your steering.
Its stock right?
When your tires are straight forward-where
is your steering wheel positioned?

If the steering is not centered I'm sure the traction control light would be on also.

Wow .... They seem like big time idiots.

Roxanne 02-21-2012 11:42 AM

Yeah! When the tires are straight my steering wheel is at a 45 degree angle to the right. I noticed when I was driving it home the night that I bought it that it was pulling to the right so my original thought was I needed the tires aligned. Then I noticed that the wheel was just sitting crooked and that's when I mentioned it to the dealership, it was looked over I guess!

I think it's classic case of they want me to spend a lot of money/they are LAZY!!

Roxanne 02-21-2012 11:43 AM

Also, the traction control light did come on for a while, but went back off. I didn't freak out because I looked on this site and saw my steering wheel just needed an alignment, but the light was definitely on for a while!

kjeeper10 02-21-2012 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxanne
Also, the traction control light did come on for a while, but went back off. I didn't freak out because I looked on this site and saw my steering wheel just needed an alignment, but the light was definitely on for a while!

Recentering the wheel is pretty easy. Better with two people. Explained in that link. Start there :)

Roxanne 02-21-2012 11:58 AM

Thank you!!

the Kolector 02-21-2012 12:22 PM

I am dealing with the issue currently as well. I took mine to a 4x4 shop and they determined all 4 ball joints are needed and recommended front lower control arms as well for better alignment adjustability. Granted, I have a little higher lift than you are running. I decided to do the work myself and will also replace the front track bar at the same time. If I am going to have to spent the money, I would rather do it in fewer steps and replace it at the same time instead of going back and forth dealing with it. Hope it gets fixed soon, it is definately frustrating. Be sure to post pics of the Jeep as well! :thumb:

Roxanne 02-21-2012 12:26 PM

I think I am most frustrated because I get nervous driving in certain conditions, so I bought a Jeep so I would feel safe, winter and summer and wherever I go! And I bought this particular one over another one because it was already built how I wanted it to be, I wasn't going to have to put more money into it after I bought it, it was already perfect! Little did I know...

Hopefully once I print out all of this information and have the tech ride with me they will try harder to fix the problem, especially if they are taking to to a Jeep dealership.

kjeeper10 02-21-2012 01:15 PM

2" lift :facepalm: forgot lol

Anyhow.... I agree, take some pics of the suspension.

ESP 02-21-2012 01:20 PM

Roxanne, where in NC are you located? Are you near to Raleigh?

Roxanne 02-21-2012 01:21 PM

I used to be in Greensboro, I'm in the mountains now, near Asheville.


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