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-   -   Lockers. Can someone explain? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/lockers-can-someone-explain-141404.html)

HermDigs 02-22-2012 06:23 AM

Lockers. Can someone explain?
 
Can someone explain lockers? How they work different kinds, pros/cons, etc...thanks

alecshirey 02-22-2012 07:53 AM

i dont know much about them but they make your tires spin at a constant rate no matter what. one tire could be air born, but both tires will still have full power. it goes into your differential. there are ones that are always on primarily for designated wheelers, DD's would run through tires too quick. and then the only other one i know of is using compressed air to turn them on and off with a switch.

Imped 02-22-2012 07:55 AM

Open diffs = the tire with the least traction gets power. Locked = both tires receive equal power at all times. With open diffs at both ends, 4wd = 2wd. With lockers at both ends, 4wd = 4wd.

VA Jeeper 02-22-2012 07:57 AM

I thought you could run them on a DD since you can switch them on or off. (locked or unlocked). Im trying to learn about them too. I wouldnt think the Rubicon would be very popular if they went through tires fast.

jerladd 02-22-2012 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imped (Post 2060852)
Open diffs = the tire with the least traction gets power. Locked = both tires receive equal power at all times. With open diffs at both ends, 4wd = 2wd. With lockers at both ends, 4wd = 4wd.


Imped says it pretty well here. I've heard it explained similar. It went something like this... "Your 4 wheel drive without lockers turns into a 2 wheel drive in a sticky situation, 1 front 1 wheel and 1 back wheel spinning. With lockers it's a lot harder to find a sticky situation." I'd for sure put one in the rear if it doesn't have it already.

VA Jeeper 02-22-2012 08:01 AM

Dont you stand a chance of breaking an axle with the stock D35 rear diff and a locker? I thought it was best to upgrade to a Ford 8.8. ??

Imped 02-22-2012 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA Jeeper (Post 2060864)
I thought you could run them on a DD since you can switch them on or off. (locked or unlocked). Im trying to learn about them too. I wouldnt think the Rubicon would be very popular if they went through tires fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA Jeeper (Post 2060879)
Dont you stand a chance of breaking an axle with the stock D35 rear diff and a locker? I thought it was best to upgrade to a Ford 8.8. ??

Research is your friend. Selectable lockers are either on or off. Off = open diffs. On = locked. Yes, the D35 is weak. The 8.8 is an option.

crallscars 02-22-2012 08:11 AM

The term 'Lockers" usually refers to the brand Detroit Locker which is a very good performance 'Positraction' carrier, they are usually found in high performance cars.

There are many other types. The most common referred to as a 'Posi' or Positraction rear End' uses clutch packs with a predetermined pressure on the discs. There is a third type that uses machined cones.
The outcome is the torque is applied to the wheel with the traction instead of a 'Open' rear that applies torque to the tire with the least traction.

Hammerwalk 02-22-2012 08:12 AM

Try this for some more info...

Auto vs. Manual Differential Lockers - Jp Magazine

Jeep Locker Review - Gov Loc Differential - Jp Magazine

Jonny15 02-22-2012 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA Jeeper
I thought you could run them on a DD since you can switch them on or off. (locked or unlocked). Im trying to learn about them too. I wouldnt think the Rubicon would be very popular if they went through tires fast.

You can. The rubicon has selectable lockers so you can engage them offroad and then disengage them for driving onroad.

There are also automatic lockers than you can install that engage automatically. These can be a pain sometimes onroad though as they tend to engage at times when they're not needed.

Yet another option is a spool. This is an option for offroad only rigs and its simply a diff that locked 100% of the time.

VA Jeeper 02-22-2012 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny15 (Post 2060947)
You can. The rubicon has selectable lockers so you can engage them offroad and then disengage them for driving onroad.

There are also automatic lockers than you can install that engage automatically. These can be a pain sometimes onroad though as they tend to engage at times when they're not needed.

Yet another option is a spooled diff. This is an option for offroad only rigs and its simply a diff that locked 100% of the time.


So I think I would want a selectible since mine is a DD. They are either electric or air operated right? Of the two which one is least expensive and which one is better?

Jonny15 02-22-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA Jeeper

So I think I would want a selectible since mine is a DD. They are either electric or air operated right? Of the two which one is least expensive and which one is better?

Or cable operated like the OX locker which would probably be your cheapest choice for a selectable locker.

Automatic lockers like a Detriot are actually going to be the cheapest option for a dd. It takes a bit to get used to driving with them but once you get used to them they work great. If you live in a snowy or icy climate though i'd go with a selectable instead as an automatic locker can be a handful to deal with in those conditions.

HermDigs 02-22-2012 08:52 AM

Thanks all good info

Kevbz 02-22-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HermDigs (Post 2060637)
Can someone explain lockers? How they work different kinds, pros/cons, etc...thanks

I try to answer you direct with out any extras...

No lockers are whats called an open differential, each wheel can rotate at its own speed. this situation is mostly noted when you take a sharp u-turn, not so much when traveling straight. say you are u-turning to the drivers side. the driver rear wheel is rotating alot less than the passenger wheel (think high school track, the runners start at different places because they are running a wider circumference). and open differential allows this.

Lockers "lock" that differential so now both tires spin at the same speed, regardless of the track they are following.

to take a step back, Imped said "With open diffs at both ends, 4wd = 2wd. With lockers at both ends, 4wd = 4wd." To take that further when you are in 2wd, your rear wheels are getting the power (nothing going up front) they each get power until one starts to slip, say one tire on ice, one on pavement. in an open differential that tire on ice will spin all day long, and the other tire is just sit there, its doing whats its supposed to do, allow that other wheel to travel a larger circumference to catch up, it is passive, it cant tell its ice that the tire is slipping on, it thinks you are turning a wicked u turn! Multiply that by two if you are in 4wd, same situation happens up front like Imped said

Now we lock the differential, make the tire on pavement spin the same amount as the tire on ice. you have two axle shafts (passenger and driver) in the rear, they are connected by a carrier, when you lock, you lock both sides together, they are no longer independent.

As for lockers, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Passive systems (no driver interaction needed) and driver selectable. The passive ones are called "posi" (I think that is a old GM term for posi-traction), or "LSD" (limited slip diff). through the use of clutches, springs, gears and other engineering goodies the axle that is spinning a lot will cause those clutches, springs and gears to temporarily lock the opposite axle up, until the wheels are back at the same speed and then it passively disengages. that's why you here some people say you can here the LSD "clicking" during a sharp turn. its starting to lock up. Pro's of a passive system...no user intervention for daily driving, good for the occasional bad weather day, wet icy day, off road in slippery conditions. Con's if the conditions are bad enough, one wheel will spin, then the other wheel will spin, back and forth, back and forth, as each wheel gets power. I maybe wrong on this but that's how "posi" worked, I don't think that LSD "lock together and stay together" per se, the power alternates to the wheels.

User selectable lockers can use air power, electric, or cables to lock those axles together, and keep them together until you select otherwise. Pro's...on when you want them, off when you don't. Con's...very hard on axles and not for on road use ever unless mother nature makes it seem off road (snow, solid sheets of ice) but you have to know when your tires are slipping, and when they are not with selectable. Try that u-turn with locked axles and the tires will buck and bounce and shake and rattle. You are placing the forces of nature, friction between the tires and the road, and the metal gears against each other. sometimes the gears win, some times the rubber on the road wins.

I'm a slow typer so sorry to all those who posted between me hitting replay and hitting send...a hour might have passed by now...:rofl:

Kevbz 02-22-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA Jeeper (Post 2060965)
So I think I would want a selectible since mine is a DD. They are either electric or air operated right? Of the two which one is least expensive and which one is better?

LSD are all options on trucks and cars. It's considered an upgrade to the standard drivetrain. If you are daily driving, and want that piece of mind that you are not going to be stuck on a hill because one wheel is on ice snow etc, LSD is the way to go.

Selectable are utilized the most for off roaders who want all the tires spinning and no loss in traction at all, but to select them on during on-road driving can be bad during any turning.

Like said, LSD is cheaper and more user friendly once you get used to not taking sharp turns (it takes a bit of travel for the LSD to lock up, so most city driving it never locks, but like mentioned you need to learn when it will and take it easy in those instances)

530ktm 02-22-2012 09:14 AM

Don't forget the automatic lockers like Detroit and Lockrite to name a couple. These work all the time when you need them. An automatic locker in the front will do nothing when in 2 wheel drive as it only will work when 4 wheel drive is engaged. I have the Lockrite in the front and the Detroit in the rear of mine and it is a very mild mannered locker on the street even though it is working all the time. This set up may not be the best if you live in the snow as it is possible to make driving interesting at times. I have been in the snow a few times and you just need to learn the personality of these. To sum it up, you have a choice of Limited Slip, Automatic and Selectable lockers. The automatic and selectable lockers are the only ones that will completely lock the drivers side and passenger side axles together.

Jerry Bransford 02-22-2012 09:21 AM

Here's an article on lockers I wrote several years ago, it explains them fairly well. Sorry it's a bit lengthy. :)

Click on What? Why do I need a locker? I thought I had 4WD!

Kevbz 02-22-2012 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 530ktm (Post 2061102)
This set up may not be the best if you live in the snow as it is possible to make driving interesting at times. I have been in the snow a few times and you just need to learn the personality of these.

:thumb: makes for fun steering when the rear end starts to fishtail, I call that white knuckle driving!

lockdjp 02-22-2012 09:30 AM

Save yourself the money and go with Aussie lockers. i have run them in a dana 30, dana 35, chrysler 8.25. All of which i had 100% success. They are less than half the price of most lockers and you don't have to pull the carrier in most cases. Aussie lockers give you 100% traction when needed with no wires or electronics or cables or air. just install and don't worry. You get no abnormal tire wear when turning corners cause the auto lockers unlock allowing the outside wheel to travel faster than the driveshaft then relocks when accelerating or in a straight line. The aussie locker never allows any of the wheels to travel slower than the driveshaft so as long as your moving you have 100% tractions. attached is the website link. check them out. very good product and cheap. Home page - Aussie Lockers - Welcome to Torq Masters Home of the Aussie Locker

Jerry Bransford 02-22-2012 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lockdjp (Post 2061163)
Save yourself the money and go with Aussie lockers. i have run them in a dana 30, dana 35, chrysler 8.25.

Never install a locker into a stock Dana 35, it simply isn't strong enough... especially its carbon steel 27 spline axle shafts. The Chrysler 8.25 isn't much stronger.

Frenz 02-22-2012 09:39 AM

Very important must know info look @ this.. http://www.aussielocker.com/download...tors_guide.pdf

lockdjp 02-22-2012 09:41 AM

@Jerry Bransford,,,,I agree with you on the dana 35, it was risky but i didn't have any issues at the mounds in flint mi. nothing major there but no breakage. If i were to do it again i would install the super 35 kit and a truss. then you can run any locker desired.

lockdjp 02-22-2012 09:51 AM

Even if your axles can handle the lockers, always change your u-joint if they haven't been in years, that will be a weak point.


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