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-   -   Want 35s dont want to REGEAR ?? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/want-35s-dont-want-to-regear-141613.html)

PieFace 02-22-2012 10:25 PM

Want 35s dont want to REGEAR ??
 
hey everyone,

Im looking to go to 35s, and i have 12 with 4.10 gears and a 6 speed.

Id never been offroad until last weekend, and I will tell you, I love my truck. It is unstoppable, and im sure i didnt scratch the surface of its capability.

I put it in 1st gear in 4 lo with my axels locked and the sway bar disconnected, and the thing would climb anything i pointed it at i didnt even have to touch the gas pedal. Once i realized my trying to drive the truck was the problem and just put in first and stopped touching the pedals it truely amazed me.

My favorite part was crawling down rocks without using the brakes.

Here's the question, My wheels are stock now. If i go to 35s without a regear, will it perform the same off road? or will the larger tires make 1st gear in 4 lo roll faster losing the crawl that i loved so much? or will it not be a noticeable difference.

Im planning to go to duratracs wich are a smaller 35. Guys with rubi's who went to 35s before a regear and took it krawling please let me know your views.

ESP 02-22-2012 10:37 PM

Wait and wheel it more, get experience and see what you need/want. Be careful with the bug right now especially if the credit card is within reach.

c0d3x5 02-22-2012 10:39 PM

If you plan on using the stock wheels, then u will need spacers,
Im sure someone will speak up here, and totally disagree on this,
but me personally would rather have a rim with the correct Back spacing such as 4.5" or less rather than a spacer. Its safer for u and the vehicle

As for your 2nd question, bigger tires will make u role more feet, its simple..

a 10 inch pizza will have to take more rpms to keep up with a 20 " pizza turning less rpms..

is it noticable.. imo not really, maybe to the experience driver who rock climbs for a living, but for the avg trail ride, your not going to even tell.. i promise..

kbwwolf 02-22-2012 10:45 PM

Dave @ AEV thinks the 4.10's are right on for a '12 with 35's. And the DT tire you're looking at (which I run on my '12 manual, but w/3.73 gears) is really almost a true 34" tire.

I don't think you'll notice much loss at all, especially in lower gears. In 4L in first, you're pretty much crawling along. I tried it out in our one decent snowstorm this year through a mixed mud/snow obstacle near the Wolf River, and had no problems.

The only place I think you'll notice the difference in tire size is on the freeway in 6th gear when trying to pass on inclines. Maybe have to downshift to 5th, where you wouldn't have had to before.

kbwwolf 02-22-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0d3x5 (Post 2064719)
If you plan on using the stock wheels, then u will need spacers,
Im sure someone will speak up here, and totally disagree on this,
but me personally would rather have a rim with the correct Back spacing such as 4.5" or less rather than a spacer. Its safer for u and the vehicle

^^^Definitely this, too. You won't be able to fit the 35" DT's on your rig with the stock wheels, without some serious rubbing.

kbwwolf 02-22-2012 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP (Post 2064708)
Wait and wheel it more, get experience and see what you need/want. Be careful with the bug right now especially if the credit card is within reach.

And this. :D

Man, everybody's on the $$ tonight.

But seriously, don't rush it. Better to learn what it'll do first, like ESP said. I waited over a month to install my lift/tires/wheels, even though I had it all in my garage. Gave me a much better idea of what changed when I finally DID do the installs.

PieFace 02-22-2012 10:53 PM

Im going to be changing to a 17x9 wheel with 4.5 backspace.

Trying to find the lightest ones I can. I think I can get this done with only about 12 more lbs. of weight on each wheel, but I wouldnt do it if it screwed with that downhill crawl. I had a smile from ear to ear when my truck took over on the declines.

kbwwolf 02-22-2012 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieFace (Post 2064761)
Im going to be changing to a 17x9 wheel with 4.5 backspace.

Trying to find the lightest ones I can. I think I can get this done with only about 12 more lbs. of weight on each wheel, but I wouldnt do it if it screwed with that downhill crawl. I had a smile from ear to ear when my truck took over on the declines.

Why not go down to 16" rims, and save even more weight? That's what I did...I've got 16x8 rims with 315/75R16 DuraTracs. Very light combo, though I wouldn't recommend the DT's if you rock crawl, or wheel in areas where there are a lot of rock obstacles, because of their 2-ply sidewall.

Anyway, just a thought on the 16's. You'll save a helluva lot of $$ on the tires at that size, too.

c0d3x5 02-22-2012 11:03 PM

i cant really say, for me there are not a whole lot of rocks to climb around here unless its man made trail,, just lots of mud... for me either way rocks or no rocks i think i would want a bigger tire than what comes stock, just because of ground clearance..

AZduck 02-22-2012 11:12 PM

Changing to 35" is roughly the same as backing off to 3.73 gears. If you happen to know somebody with stock tires, 3.73 gears and a 6spd, just go for a ride with them and see if you're satisfied with the capabilities.

35" tires are right on the edge of having to do serious upgrades to drivetrain and suspension components. Keep crawling thru moderate terrain, and you'll be fine. But bump up the speed or difficulty, and your stock parts are going to be stressed beyond their capability. You play, you pay.

Daniel_M 02-23-2012 08:23 AM

I think you'll be ok cause you got 3 things going for you. 3.6L Pentastar
(for highway), 4.10's and manual trans. The crawl you may lose may not be noticable and I don't think 4.10's is perfect for 35's on a 2012. I think with your trans and motor, 4.88's would be ideal. For my 2008 Auto, I am going 5.13's to push my 35's.

-Dan

XJ Knight 02-23-2012 08:29 AM

http://cdn.wranglerforum.com/attachm...1&d=1325781356

ESP 02-23-2012 08:44 AM

^ Ahh the good ole gears chart.

PieFace 02-23-2012 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XJ Knight (Post 2065617)


Can someone explain what im reading?

And thanks everyone for helping with this issue.

chris.george 02-23-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieFace

Can someone explain what im reading?

And thanks everyone for helping with this issue.

Tire size on the vertical axis (actual not listed size on the tire), gear ratio along the horizontal. Matching your tire size to ratio gives you RPMs at 70mph.

kbwwolf 02-23-2012 03:05 PM

Try these, Pie. Easier to read, plus the color coding (read the keys in the color bars @ top) will give you an explanation of where you are now, and therefore where you wanna be after regearing for 35's. Just understand that, when you say 35's, if you mean the DuraTracs, you actually wanna look at 34" tires on the chart.

Make sense?


http://cdn.wranglerforum.com/attachm...1&d=1326118413

PieFace 02-23-2012 08:11 PM

So 4.88s? Anyone make this switch under warranty? anyone have a brand they like?

kbwwolf 02-23-2012 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieFace (Post 2067835)
So 4.88s? Anyone make this switch under warranty? anyone have a brand they like?

I'm gonna go to 4.88's in the next couple-three months. Yukon is what I'm planning on.

I'll be under warranty when I do it...but that's not gonna stop me, or even give me pause. :D

kbwwolf 02-23-2012 08:19 PM

Now that I think about it:

If you decide to do it, find a shop with a lot of experience changing gears. It's not something any ole mechanic can do. And have the shop order you a master kit...gears, pinion nuts, the works, to maintain mfr warranty on the gears and prevent any potential problems with faulty parts, etc.

There'll be a break-in period after you get the new gears...follow it like religion.

Cost should be +/– $1500.

rics1997 02-23-2012 08:29 PM

I did 4.88 under warranty. Most gears have their own warranty. but I did mine on a 2010. A 2012 with 4:10 should be plenty. The cost of going to 4.88 from 4.10 really isn't that cost efficient IMO. The 35's on 4.10's really isn't much difference then stock 32's on 3.73 and better then stock 32's on 3.21's for 2012 models

chris.george 02-23-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbwwolf (Post 2067874)
Now that I think about it:

If you decide to do it, find a shop with a lot of experience changing gears. It's not something any ole mechanic can do. And have the shop order you a master kit...gears, pinion nuts, the works, to maintain mfr warranty on the gears and prevent any potential problems with faulty parts, etc.

There'll be a break-in period after you get the new gears...follow it like religion.

Cost should be +/ $1500.

How come 4.88? Mostly curious since AEV tends to recommend 4.10 for 35".

I've been debating it for a while too to be honest, so opinions are welcome :)

rics1997 02-23-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris.george (Post 2067909)
How come 4.88? Mostly curious since AEV tends to recommend 4.10 for 35".

I've been debating it for a while too to be honest, so opinions are welcome :)

You would get better gas mileage with 4.10 but even though 4.10 are more then whats needed on the 2012 model you will see better hp with a regear. Sort of anyways. You don't actually get more hp but since you will be at a higher rpm at any given speed you therefore have more hp at the same given speed since the hp curve is fairly steep at lower rpms. So you will gain from 10 to 30hp at same given speeds. There isn't that many thing that will give you those hp gains at the wheel. But it isn't as important in the 2012 models as it is in earlier models

Example using my 2010. I was running about 50hp with 3.73 at 70 mph and after regearing I am running 80hp at 70mph with 4.88. Thats a 30hp gain at the wheel not the crank. A lot easier to pass at highway speeds now.

kbwwolf 02-23-2012 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rics1997 (Post 2067907)
I did 4.88 under warranty. Most gears have their own warranty. but I did mine on a 2010. A 2012 with 4:10 should be plenty. The cost of going to 4.88 from 4.10 really isn't that cost efficient IMO. The 35's on 4.10's really isn't much difference then stock 32's on 3.73 and better then stock 32's on 3.21's for 2012 models

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris.george (Post 2067909)
How come 4.88? Mostly curious since AEV tends to recommend 4.10 for 35".
I've been debating it for a while too to be honest, so opinions are welcome :)

This is my thinking:

I currently have 3.73's (and 35's). Around town, they're fine. On the highway, I often have to downshift into 5th to pass slower traffic on mild grades, and a stiff headwind causes a noticeable, though not drastic, power loss.

Several times a year I'll make trips through the mountains of numerous states, and I really don't think 4.10 gears would be so great an improvement that I wouldn't be doing it almost exclusively in fifth gear (or, god forbid, even less).

4.56's would probably do the job, but there are two shops in my area that I'd trust to do a gear change, and guys at both places cautioned me about getting 4.56's simply because of the lack of availability. They weren't against the 4.56's, per se, just leery of being able to get em on short notice.

Not a dealbreaker, for them or me. And it's only in the last couple of weeks that I decided on the 4.88's over the 4.56's, for a couple of reasons.

One, is the mountain use my Jeep will see, as stated above. Another is the fact that spending that much coin to go two gears lower seems kinda foolish, and I'm worried that if I DO ultimately settle for 4.56 gears, I'm not gonna be satisfied. I've still got a winch, portable air, a front skid and several other skid plates to add before I'm gonna be done (mostly :D ) with my exterior mods. So more weight going on.

Bottom line...I'd rather go one gear too low than get stuck one gear too high. I've got a manual, so obviously there's a danger of going too low, but if my rpm's end up around 2600-2700 in sixth @ 70 mph (which is where they'll be, give or take, on my rig w/34" DT's and 4.88's), I feel like I'll be pretty much right where I wanna be.

I'm definitely open to arguments for and against.

And, not to hijack Pie's thread...I suspect he'd be interested to know, as well, since it sounds like he's considering the same route.

If not, Pie, tell us to shut up and get outta here. :thumb:

chris.george 02-23-2012 09:54 PM

Your thinking mirrored mine a lot, especially when I go through Yosemite and Santa Cruz ALL the time. There are a lot of mountains, hills, and beach terrain that just makes the lower gears... rough.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's high on my list yet. Especially with gas prices creeping near the $4.30 range 'round these parts ;)

PieFace 02-24-2012 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbwwolf (Post 2067989)
This is my thinking:

I currently have 3.73's (and 35's). Around town, they're fine. On the highway, I often have to downshift into 5th to pass slower traffic on mild grades, and a stiff headwind causes a noticeable, though not drastic, power loss.

Several times a year I'll make trips through the mountains of numerous states, and I really don't think 4.10 gears would be so great an improvement that I wouldn't be doing it almost exclusively in fifth gear (or, god forbid, even less).

4.56's would probably do the job, but there are two shops in my area that I'd trust to do a gear change, and guys at both places cautioned me about getting 4.56's simply because of the lack of availability. They weren't against the 4.56's, per se, just leery of being able to get em on short notice.

Not a dealbreaker, for them or me. And it's only in the last couple of weeks that I decided on the 4.88's over the 4.56's, for a couple of reasons.

One, is the mountain use my Jeep will see, as stated above. Another is the fact that spending that much coin to go two gears lower seems kinda foolish, and I'm worried that if I DO ultimately settle for 4.56 gears, I'm not gonna be satisfied. I've still got a winch, portable air, a front skid and several other skid plates to add before I'm gonna be done (mostly :D ) with my exterior mods. So more weight going on.

Bottom line...I'd rather go one gear too low than get stuck one gear too high. I've got a manual, so obviously there's a danger of going too low, but if my rpm's end up around 2600-2700 in sixth @ 70 mph (which is where they'll be, give or take, on my rig w/34" DT's and 4.88's), I feel like I'll be pretty much right where I wanna be.

I'm definitely open to arguments for and against.

And, not to hijack Pie's thread...I suspect he'd be interested to know, as well, since it sounds like he's considering the same route.

If not, Pie, tell us to shut up and get outta here. :thumb:

Let the thread run and evolve. Also, KB, whats your plan for on board AIR? Thats what im planning next.

Did I just hijack my own thread? lol

kbwwolf 02-24-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieFace (Post 2069480)
Let the thread run and evolve. Also, KB, whats your plan for on board AIR? Thats what im planning next.

Did I just hijack my own thread? lol

http://bravellir.com/gallery/d/5474-2/threadjacked.gif

I'm eventually gonna buy a Viair OBA system, but just this a.m. Sneck posted a thread on a portable air compressor deal from Amazon that's pretty irresistible, so I bought one of these. Check it out...

OBA deal on Amazon!

kbwwolf 02-24-2012 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris.george (Post 2068278)
Your thinking mirrored mine a lot, especially when I go through Yosemite and Santa Cruz ALL the time. There are a lot of mountains, hills, and beach terrain that just makes the lower gears... rough.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's high on my list yet. Especially with gas prices creeping near the $4.30 range 'round these parts ;)

I hear you on the gas...it's only gonna go up, too. Especially after someone bombs the shit outta Iran.

The thing is, though...regearing can actually improve your mileage if, like me, you're already running 35's and are currently underpowered. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everybody should run out and slap 35's on their rigs and get gear changes...THAT won't help.

But with my CURRENT setup I'd expect my mileage to stay the same or improve slightly with lower gears.

If I hit on the right combo.

Maybe.

Wheeee! http://bravellir.com/gallery/d/5576-2/icon_sad.gif

ESP 02-24-2012 10:40 AM

Did someone mention "combo"? :whistling:

kbwwolf 02-24-2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP (Post 2069551)
Did someone mention "combo"? :whistling:

Hahaha...what, you got some kind of tripwire alarm set up?

ESP 02-24-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbwwolf (Post 2069553)
Hahaha...what, you got some kind of tripwire alarm set up?

Yep. I get email text alerts at the bare mention of the word combo and I've even got it set up now to do it for gas mileage. I'm thinking of changing the latter however because in inbox is always full.


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