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mjbuck 03-20-2012 10:50 AM

Came across this today while perusing the internet..
 
Only On 7: Congress demands answers after I-Team 'death wobble' report | abc7news.com

scot68 03-20-2012 10:59 AM

Got to love it!! People don't maintain there vehicle or alter it improperly and its the Jeeps fault! When did it become "ok" not take responsibility for ones own actions? :confused: "It must be an engineering/manufacturing issue"!! I would like to know how many people with properly set up rigs or well maintained stockers actually experience DW. It always boils down to improper steering geometry, worn or mis-adjusted parts or tires.

TXST8tj 03-20-2012 11:05 AM

.....what? You mean I have to get a periodic alignment and/or tire rotate and balance????

This vehicle ownership isn't what I thought it would be.

burton160w 03-20-2012 11:13 AM

:banghead: people are ridiculous although I'm surprised Chrysler issued the fix to be "replace the steering dampener" when that's nothing more then a temporary band-aid.

2002TJ 03-20-2012 12:25 PM

1 Attachment(s)
You wanna talk Death Wobble? Wait till you get one started on one of these.

This scooter of mine had it right out of the box-factory fresh. Almost bucked me off several times in high speed sweepers if I hit a slight bump....The bars would start wobbling and my knees slappin the tank.

Harley denied it was a design problem and tried adjustin the steering head bearings. I discovered it was a design issue and bought a "3rd link" aftermarket kit that fixed it. Starting in 2009 Harley quietly added their own 3rd link.

This Jeep thang, however is not a design issue, it's due to worn parts or poor alterations or both.

We 4X4 folks need to be careful about screaming that the government 'fix' stuff like this....Next thang you know they will make it illegal to alter our suspensions

jeepjones 03-20-2012 12:37 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jeeps aren't for everybody. They aren't made for highway driving, they aren't made for soccer moms/dads, they aren't grocery getters. If you don't stay on top of maintenance they are going to let you know, "Death Wobble" is the warning sign that you need to do some serious repairs. If you want to neglect doing maintenance buy a Japanese built vehicle, like a honda, as long as the fluids are good they will run forever.

2002TJ 03-20-2012 12:40 PM

The 'death wobble' ain't just a Jeep issue. Like the article said, it can happen with all solid front axle 4X4's...Seen it with full size trucks and Blazers

scot68 03-20-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2002TJ (Post 2160630)
You wanna talk Death Wobble? Wait till you get one started on one of these.

This scooter of mine had it right out of the box-factory fresh. Almost bucked me off several times in high speed sweepers if I hit a slight bump....The bars would start wobbling and my knees slappin the tank.

Harley denied it was a design problem and tried adjustin the steering head bearings. I discovered it was a design issue and bought a "3rd link" aftermarket kit that fixed it. Starting in 2009 Harley quietly added their own 3rd link.

This Jeep thang, however is not a design issue, it's due to worn parts or poor alterations or both.

We 4X4 folks need to be careful about screaming that the government 'fix' stuff like this....Next thang you know they will make it illegal to alter our suspensions

:eek: Dam I bet that made you pucker!!! Your 100% right the last thing we need is more government involvement!

2002TJ 03-20-2012 01:07 PM

I think it's GREAT that we here swap experiences with DW and our attempts to fix it, plus our discoveries concerning which lift components work best together, and what wears out.

The average young Jeep buyer snags a used TJ and immediately starts jacking it up and throwin bigger tires on it cause he's seeking that cool look cause chicks dig it....Next thing he knows it's wobbling and/or the driveline components failing. Many of them end up here or other sites seeking answers..some even go to selling dealer with complaints.

What those kids don't understand at first is these rigs need a healthy dose of routine 'repairs' or upgrades to stock steering components to stay safe once lifted and/or larger tires added....It's sad but true that it takes a lot of bucks and those bucks don't go to 'cool' stuff that satisfies their desire to alter the appearance or their ride.

I'm glad we got those 'kids' out there involved in the cult and all the ideas they contribute and the effort and expense they suffer and how they share it all here eventually.

I just worry at times some of them miss the fact that their hard earned bucks must first go toward responsible maintenance and repairs before they attempt certain mods.

Jp90Talon 03-20-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scot68 (Post 2160250)
Got to love it!! People don't maintain there vehicle or alter it improperly and its the Jeeps fault! When did it become "ok" not take responsibility for ones own actions? :confused: "It must be an engineering/manufacturing issue"!! I would like to know how many people with properly set up rigs or well maintained stockers actually experience DW. It always boils down to improper steering geometry, worn or mis-adjusted parts or tires.

I agree with you 100% on the DW issue but when it comes to the OPDA issue in 05-06 wranglers it is a engineering/manufacturing issue that Jeep is ignoring.

Atthehop 03-20-2012 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2002TJ (Post 2160705)
The 'death wobble' ain't just a Jeep issue. Like the article said, it can happen with all solid front axle 4X4's...Seen it with full size trucks and Blazers

I saw it back in the 70's on trucks when I worked in a stealership.

wedu22 03-20-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2002TJ (Post 2160630)
You wanna talk Death Wobble? Wait till you get one started on one of these.

This scooter of mine had it right out of the box-factory fresh. Almost bucked me off several times in high speed sweepers if I hit a slight bump....The bars would start wobbling and my knees slappin the tank.

Harley denied it was a design problem and tried adjustin the steering head bearings. I discovered it was a design issue and bought a "3rd link" aftermarket kit that fixed it. Starting in 2009 Harley quietly added their own 3rd link.

This Jeep thang, however is not a design issue, it's due to worn parts or poor alterations or both.

We 4X4 folks need to be careful about screaming that the government 'fix' stuff like this....Next thang you know they will make it illegal to alter our suspensions

Been there, done that & ouch...1982 GS850GL dumped my butt on the highway in St. Petersburg, FL! Handlebars started shaking so hard, tried to slow down. I went over the handlebars, bike went over me..roll, roll, roll.:eek:
- Bike totaled & a school bus full of kids had there "current event" story for school the next day:rofl:
- Macdill, AFB had a field day w/my hands because it was the only part of my body not covered. Gloves were on back order:doh:

jrussblues 03-20-2012 01:44 PM

Bad journalism. "the track bar...an integral part of the STEERING system"...

These guys should be sued into oblivion. Irresponsible.

And the chp officer is greatly exaggerating.

2002TJ 03-20-2012 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedu22 (Post 2160918)
Been there, done that & ouch...1982 GS850GL dumped my butt on the highway in St. Petersburg, FL! Handlebars started shaking so hard, tried to slow down. I went over the handlebars, bike went over me..roll, roll, roll.:eek:
- Bike totaled & a school bus full of kids had there "current event" story for school the next day:rofl:
- Macdill, AFB had a field day w/my hands because it was the only part of my body not covered. Gloves were on back order:doh:

Yup, common mistake trying to slow down-worse if you hit the brakes...The only thing that works is to gas it hard, but usually first reaction is to back off and/or brake, or traffic/speed/lean angle prevents gassin out of it.

When you are layin there dead or bleeding the responding officer writes it off as single vehicle accident due to 'driver error'...Bike maker NEVER gets blamed because after all, 'scooters are dangerous and we all drive too fast' :)

wedu22 03-20-2012 02:21 PM

^^That is exactly what I did...let off the gas. Can't remember what the local yocal give me, if anything.

2002TJ 03-20-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedu22 (Post 2161027)
^^That is exactly what I did...let off the gas. Can't remember what the local yocal give me, if anything.

Yup, and when it comes to accidents involving our lifted 4X4's often times WE get blamed for altering steering and suspension geometry EVEN when we use well designed kits...Some lawyers claim our alterations caused us to not be able to stop in time or maintain control and avoid the accident or reduce the damage and injuries.

I remember when I was stationed in Virgina when 4X4 stuff first got popular with young folks. Virginia reacted to 'citizen' complaints that jacked 4X4's were 'itimidating'. The state quickly passed a bumper height law that stated your truck bumper could only be so high off the ground. LOL, drivers quickly responded by fabricating brackets to lower their bumpers...Looked goofy but it got them by the silly law, so the state then started focusing on headlight height legistlation, LOL

Dragonii 03-20-2012 03:14 PM

I have a solution for them....... sell your Jeep and buy a mini van.

2002TJ 03-20-2012 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonii (Post 2161191)
I have a solution for them....... sell your Jeep and buy a mini van.

Yup, with 6 airbags and anti-bullying devices and proximity sensors and self parking and headlight wipers....Oh wait, that's almost the newest Jeep, huh? :)

Dragonii 03-20-2012 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2002TJ (Post 2160630)
You wanna talk Death Wobble? Wait till you get one started on one of these.

This scooter of mine had it right out of the box-factory fresh. Almost bucked me off several times in high speed sweepers if I hit a slight bump....The bars would start wobbling and my knees slappin the tank.

Harley denied it was a design problem and tried adjustin the steering head bearings. I discovered it was a design issue and bought a "3rd link" aftermarket kit that fixed it. Starting in 2009 Harley quietly added their own 3rd link.

This Jeep thang, however is not a design issue, it's due to worn parts or poor alterations or both.

We 4X4 folks need to be careful about screaming that the government 'fix' stuff like this....Next thang you know they will make it illegal to alter our suspensions

Yep... that sort of thing has already led to the production of the 2wd JKU for Christ sake.:rofl:

By the way, I broke three bones in my left foot, one tooth and lost a lot of skin thanks to a "Death Wobble" on a '84 Honda Shadow.... can't blame that one on Jeep.

mjbuck 03-20-2012 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2002TJ (Post 2161071)
Yup, and when it comes to accidents involving our lifted 4X4's often times WE get blamed for altering steering and suspension geometry EVEN when we use well designed kits...Some lawyers claim our alterations caused us to not be able to stop in time or maintain control and avoid the accident or reduce the damage and injuries.

I remember when I was stationed in Virgina when 4X4 stuff first got popular with young folks. Virginia reacted to 'citizen' complaints that jacked 4X4's were 'itimidating'. The state quickly passed a bumper height law that stated your truck bumper could only be so high off the ground. LOL, drivers quickly responded by fabricating brackets to lower their bumpers...Looked goofy but it got them by the silly law, so the state then started focusing on headlight height legistlation, LOL



I'm a retired Deputy Sheriff in Michigan. The bumper height law in Michigan that was passed about 15 years ago had nothing to do with intimidation. It was passed due to lifted vehicles being so high off that ground they were running over and on top of smaller and mid-size vehicles, often crushing the passengers by crashing through the windshield or roof. I've seen it happen that way. Plus, many who raise their vehicles do so unsafely. Instead of spending the money on engineered kits that are designed to be safe, they take short cuts. I once examined a pickup truck that the owner lifted and used hockey pucks to accomplish this task.

Dragonii 03-20-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjbuck (Post 2161548)
I'm a retired Deputy Sheriff in Michigan. The bumper height law in Michigan that was passed about 15 years ago had nothing to do with intimidation. It was passed due to lifted vehicles being so high off that ground they were running over and on top of smaller and mid-size vehicles, often crushing the passengers by crashing through the windshield or roof. I've seen it happen that way. Plus, many who raise their vehicles do so unsafely. Instead of spending the money on engineered kits that are designed to be safe, they take short cuts. I once examined a pickup truck that the owner lifted and used hockey pucks to accomplish this task.

My mom lost a friend back when she was young because he lifted the back of his hot rod using a 2x4.:nonono:

mraybrake 03-20-2012 06:33 PM

yea my sis's '06 had the DW COMPLETELY STOCK!!!! nothing done to it. Hadn't even gone off road! Then we got the new steering stabilizer and it fixed it, till we went mudding, then it came back till we cleaned out the undercarriage. I'm not saying its jeeps fault, I'm just saying it shouldn't have happened on a new vehicle like that when nothing was done, and no off roading was done.

One of the comments above stated "They aren't made for highway driving, they aren't made for soccer moms/dads, they aren't grocery getters." This is true, however that doesn't mean that they can't be used like that in stock form. Jeep should make a quality product that can be used in ANY form. If these were made solely for off-roading and beefing up, why even bother putting tires and suspension on them?
Sorry, just my $0.02. My sis got into an argument with a jeep rep when she called about the DW on the jeep and the rep said basically what i quoted above.

*Edit* My jeep (bought it off the sis) no longer has the death wobble. I just watched the videos and found what they said interesting. Not always 100% accurate, but hey, when is the media 100% accurate?

Dragonii 03-20-2012 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mraybrake (Post 2161847)
yea my sis's '06 had the DW COMPLETELY STOCK!!!! nothing done to it. Hadn't even gone off road! Then we got the new steering stabilizer and it fixed it, till we went mudding, then it came back till we cleaned out the undercarriage. I'm not saying its jeeps fault, I'm just saying it shouldn't have happened on a new vehicle like that when nothing was done, and no off roading was done.

One of the comments above stated "They aren't made for highway driving, they aren't made for soccer moms/dads, they aren't grocery getters." This is true, however that doesn't mean that they can't be used like that in stock form. Jeep should make a quality product that can be used in ANY form. If these were made solely for off-roading and beefing up, why even bother putting tires and suspension on them?
Sorry, just my $0.02. My sis got into an argument with a jeep rep when she called about the DW on the jeep and the rep said basically what i quoted above.

*Edit* My jeep (bought it off the sis) no longer has the death wobble. I just watched the videos and found what they said interesting. Not always 100% accurate, but hey, when is the media 100% accurate?


I wouldn't say that they aren't capable of being grocery getters, I drive mine to work in an office building and to the local Walmart every day, not to mention taking the dog to the dog park every Saturday.
However, I do not see how anyone could go out and buy something like a Jeep Wrangler without doing research on the vehicle first. I just got my Jeep last month, first one I have ever owned, and I knew all about the Death Wobble before buying it. I can MAYBE understand someone buying a Corolla without researching it and it's possible flaws before buying it, but a 4x4 of any kind? No, there is no excuse. You don't buy something as specific as a Wrangler without doing your homework.

When we bought my girlfriends Scion Tc I told the salesman that I wanted it with Yokohama's, not the Bridgestone. He looked at me funny and said "you know what kind of tires they come with?"... yeah, I'm not spending 20k for something and not know a few things about it.

And by the way, "Death Wobble" is not just a Jeep thing. It's a solid front axle 4x4 thing. Go to Youtube and put in "Death Wobble"... first four results, Ford F250, Jeep, Dodge, Dodge, Dodge...

If you spend a bit time doing some homework you will not only find pretty much every possible thing that would cause the wobble, but fixes for it as well.

scot68 03-20-2012 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mraybrake (Post 2161847)
yea my sis's '06 had the DW COMPLETELY STOCK!!!! nothing done to it. Hadn't even gone off road! Then we got the new steering stabilizer and it fixed it, till we went mudding, then it came back till we cleaned out the undercarriage. I'm not saying its jeeps fault, I'm just saying it shouldn't have happened on a new vehicle like that when nothing was done, and no off roading was done.

One of the comments above stated "They aren't made for highway driving, they aren't made for soccer moms/dads, they aren't grocery getters." This is true, however that doesn't mean that they can't be used like that in stock form. Jeep should make a quality product that can be used in ANY form. If these were made solely for off-roading and beefing up, why even bother putting tires and suspension on them?
Sorry, just my $0.02. My sis got into an argument with a jeep rep when she called about the DW on the jeep and the rep said basically what i quoted above.

I'm not trying to argue but there was most likely an underlying problem you were unaware of. When you say "new" do you literally mean "brand new"? Or could the tires have had some uneven wear or been inflated improperly? Could there have been a loose/worn front end part? Think about how many hundreds of thousands of solid axle Wranglers were (and still are) built and how often you hear of the DW problem. If there was a design or manufacturing problem it would have been identified in the courts by now.

jcmstrickers 03-20-2012 07:17 PM

I have a quick question. Can DW be caused by having one of your sway bars connected? Or is it a more serious issue. I am getting serious DW over 50mph. Please help. Thanks

mraybrake 03-20-2012 07:20 PM

Ok. So I interpreted your post a little different. Not everyone does research like you do though. My sis wanted the jeep because she knew they were fun vehicles and wanted to get one. I don't quite agree with you on the "You don't buy something as specific as a Wrangler without doing your homework". Sometimes its best to live in the spur of the moment. She doesn't regret buying the jeep (and i don't either cause it got me a jeep :D haha) I love the jeep, DW or not.
I love doing research on things I want, or things I want to get in the future but its clearly not gonna happen lol. I should probably stop posting. Idk how your reading this but I promise I'm not uptight or anything. I love the community we have on this forum!

mraybrake 03-20-2012 07:24 PM

It wasn't new new. Probably between 20 and 30,000? Still within warranty, which Jeep and the dealership did a good job with dealing with the problem. Like I said, its gone now. Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking or anything like that. I hate reading post on other threads/ forums where that's all people do.

whiteyj 03-20-2012 07:24 PM

Honest journalism doesn't sell! There is no such thing anymore. It's all sensationalized BS.......:banghead:

Kilroy 03-20-2012 07:24 PM

My 06 with 38K miles has no lift, Michelins less than 1 year old, New track bar front and back, Bilsteins front and back, Heavy duty, after market ball joints, heavy duty aftermarket tie rod and drag link, Castor kit, and a rancho steering damper.

And, I still get an occasional death wobble. But the system is so tight it is not scary and is easier to handle than stock.

My '01 TJ didn't wobble, and 3 other solid axle vehicles I have owned didn't wobble.

scot68 03-20-2012 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mraybrake (Post 2162059)
It wasn't new new. Probably between 20 and 30,000? Still within warranty, which Jeep and the dealership did a good job with dealing with the problem. Like I said, its gone now. Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking or anything like that. I hate reading post on other threads/ forums where that's all people do.

It's all good!! :) I'm glad it was taken care of and now you have a nice Jeep!


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