Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   TJ General Discussion Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/)
-   -   custom cage+soft top=?? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/custom-cage-soft-top-148229.html)

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 08:13 PM

custom cage+soft top=??
 
Hey so my jeep has a full cage on it and came with a hard top. I was going to buy framless top from crown today and decided to check the fit of the door surrounds someone gave me. Turns out the cage hits the spot on the surround that has the threaded rod to tighten or something. Is there a different style surround I could use or should i just try trimming the part thats hitting off?

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0863.jpg

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0864.jpg

GoldenSahara00 03-22-2012 08:14 PM

You can't just pop it in there? Haha. Dang. If you can, you could try and drill new holes.

Benderff 03-22-2012 08:19 PM

You will need to make both of the C parts on the surrounds fit the cage. Then you will need to drill holes so the knob bolts will go through the cage. That is how the surrounds attach. Do you have any extra cage work on the back half? If so a frameless top might not fit.

UnlimitedLJ04 03-22-2012 08:35 PM

Hate to tell you this, but it looks like somebody welded the windshield bars in the wrong place. Assuming the bottom alignment pin is set in place correctly on the door frame, and it's still that high compared to the windshield bar...you need to have the offending sections cut off and rewelded in the correct position. Both the door surrounds and windshield are positioned specifically to keep the soft top properly tightened over the top frame.

FWIW, I have custom cage additions welded in my Jeep, including replacement windshield bars. I took extensive measurements with the hard top on, and specifically mocked up the cage with the door surrounds installed to ensure the hard top and soft top would both fit. It looks like the person doing your cage didn't think ahead.

GoldenSahara00 03-22-2012 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04
Somebody welded the windshield bars in the wrong place. You'll need to have the offending sections cut off and rewelded in the correct position. Both the door surrounds and windshield are positioned specifically to keep the soft top properly tightened over the top frame.

FWIW, I have a custom cage additions welded in my Jeep, including replacement windshield bars. I took extensive measurements with the hard top on, and specifically mocked up the cage with the door surrounds installed to ensure the hard top and soft top would both fit. It looks like the person doing your cage didn't think ahead.

Or didn't plan on running a top :rofl:

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 08:36 PM

no extra on the back half that would effect it. And the bottom of the C hits the bar. I might have to trim it down and use some scrap metal to remake it lower or something idk. I dont want to cut up brand new ones. I might try to find an old one cheap to cut lol

GoldenSahara00 03-22-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30
no extra on the back half that would effect it. And the bottom of the C hits the bar. I might have to trim it down and use some scrap metal to remake it lower or something idk. I dont want to cut up brand new ones. I might try to find an old one cheap to cut lol

Even if you get it to fit, it's going to be too wide across the top because of the cage being put in wrong as unlimited mentioned. You will have a heck of a time getting the tabs into it and the whole top will fit funny

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 08:39 PM

I cant just cut it out because it is one tube coming from the floor up through the dash bending and going into the back half of the bar

UnlimitedLJ04 03-22-2012 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2170324)
no extra on the back half that would effect it. And the bottom of the C hits the bar. I might have to trim it down and use some scrap metal to remake it lower or something idk. I dont want to cut up brand new ones. I might try to find an old one cheap to cut lol

If you modify the door surround or try to lower it much, the soft top likely won't fit.

Both the door surrounds and windshield are positioned specifically to keep the soft top properly tightened over the top frame.

Your picture doesn't show us how far off it is...get some better pictures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2170337)
I cant just cut it out because it is one tube coming from the floor up through the dash bending and going into the back half of the bar

I didn't say it was going to be easy or simple to fix. It looks like somebody screwed up in the fabrication, now you get to deal with it.

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 08:44 PM

Ok Ill try now but its probably too dark right now. If not ill take some better pictures tomorrow.

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 09:01 PM

back
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0865.jpg

front actually lines up kinda close http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0866.jpg

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0867.jpg
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0868.jpg
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0872.jpg

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 09:02 PM

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0871.jpg

GoldenSahara00 03-22-2012 09:29 PM

The front actually looks okay but it appears the back was welding too low.

UnlimitedLJ04 03-22-2012 09:30 PM

you also have no windshield molding. the door surround needs to fit into that windshield molding.

and yup, the tubing was welded in the wrong place. get the windshield molding, cut the windshield bar loose from the B-pillar, bend it up so the door surround fits, weld it back on. You obviously want this done by a certified welder...since you're dealing with your life. You shouldn't need to remove the whole thing or the dash.

it also looks like you have no windshield frame attachment to the cage...which you also need...since that sets the fitting distance for both the hard top and soft top. fab up some clips welded to the cage to make that work, utilizing the stock bolt on attachment points on the windshield frame.

GoldenSahara00 03-22-2012 09:32 PM

I think we now know why he only had a hardtop

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 09:33 PM

Yeah so you think if i just trimmed the C in the back so the surround could come into the roll bar more and used a pipe cut in half to create a new c and somehow mount it in the proper location? It shouldnt change the height of the surround. Only problem would be the fact that the tube is lower and the soft top wont hit it like it would the stock tube.

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 09:38 PM

What do the windshield frame attachment and windshield molding look like? And my friend who helped me with my lift is a mechanic and certified welder. It looks like it might be easier to cut and re-weld the frame.

Boston_Bruins30 03-22-2012 09:41 PM

Also could you show me a pic of your cage so i can see what it looks like? Im not exactly sure where you think i should cut it.

UnlimitedLJ04 03-22-2012 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2170593)
Yeah so you think if i just trimmed the C in the back so the surround could come into the roll bar more and used a pipe cut in half to create a new c and somehow mount it in the proper location? It shouldnt change the height of the surround. Only problem would be the fact that the tube is lower and the soft top wont hit it like it would the stock tube.

You don't understand the problem. Take a step back and think about it.

First off, do you know what the A-pillar, B-pillar and C-pillar's are? Do you know what the windshield bars are? The windshield bars go from A-pillar to B-pillar...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2170610)
What do the windshield frame attachment and windshield molding look like? And my friend who helped me with my lift is a mechanic and certified welder. It looks like it might be easier to cut and re-weld the frame.

You don't need to modify the windshield frame in any way. You need to cut the windshield bar off the B-pillar. then use the door surround as a template to figure out where the windshield bar needs to be welded to the B-pillar at. you'll likely need to loosen the lower mount below the dash too, but you shouldn't have to remove the dash or the bar. you will need to use larger welding blankets to cover your interior and dash before doing any of this, or you will burn holes in everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2170628)
Also could you show me a pic of your cage so i can see what it looks like? Im not exactly sure where you think i should cut it.

The stock windshield bars actually have oblonged holes for the door surrounds. The B-pillar side of the stock windshield bar mount is actually slightly adjustable, and so is the length of those windshield bars. All this adds up to a stacked tolerance situation that sets the distance between the windshield frame and the B-pillar, and therefore the back of the tub. All of which are critical for hard top and soft top fitment.

On my cage, I used the stock mounts as templates, and sleeved the 1.75" DOM over them.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC01263.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC01271.jpg
^^The paint was ground off, and once positioned correctly, the whole thing was welded to the B-pillar.

You can see the factory upper windshield mounts, and the windshield door molding here:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC_0002.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC01261.jpg

Cage:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...ges/cage10.jpg

Once everything was finished, I installed the door surrounds, marked the area, and drilled the holes required. I ended up widening/oblonging them with a dremel, similar to the stock holes.

With door surrounds installed:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...g/DSC_0108.jpg

You can see the aftermarket safari top actually uses the door surrounds for mounting as well.

ShawnT 03-23-2012 12:44 PM

Looks like and effed up cage.

Boston_Bruins30 03-23-2012 05:40 PM

Ok I appreciate the help and patience so far. If I semi understand this I need to cut here
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0878.jpg
and here
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0879.jpg
Then put a bracket here and in the back to weld the horizontal tube to and bolt to windshield. With the surrounds in place.
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0877.jpg
Am I close? and if so what do I do about the two center bars and the one that goes parallel to the windshield frame, Cut off and re weld or leave alone? http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0882.jpg http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0883.jpg http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0863.jpg

UnlimitedLJ04 03-23-2012 09:04 PM

first thing I'd suggest is getting the windshield moldings so you have a reference point for the front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2173754)

then cut this loose from the B-pillar, and loosen the floor mount bolts. try to position the roll bar so it fits the door surrounds, which need to be lined up to the windshield molding.

If you can get everything lined up, awesome. Tack the windshield bar to the B-pillar, with the door surround in place.

Now, look at the floor mount and see where/how/if you need to drill new holes in the plate, or if you can adjust the height with washers, or whatever.

In fact, I'd do all that with the windshield folded down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2173754)
Then put a bracket here and in the back to weld the horizontal tube to and bolt to windshield. With the surrounds in place.
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMG_0877.jpg

you don't need to do this part with the door surrounds in place. you just need to make sure the bar won't move from the correct position...so address that first. Get it tacked in place, and bolted in place, with the door surrounds properly lined up. Once it's all locked in place, then fab up your tab. Make sure you leave room to get the screwdriver & screw in place & out. The windshield distance (and therefore the shape & position of the tab) will be set by the door surrounds - remember you were supposed to position all this stuff earlier in the above step?

I'd start with flat plate to make the bracket. Once you have the bracket drilled, and have the bolt set, all you need to do is bend it into an L angle shape. Do this with a BFH and a bench vice, or better yet, mark the area you want to hinge the plate, heat up the area with an oxy-acet torch, bend it and then let it cool. See if it fits. Repeat as necessary on both sides.

Once you're happy with how the bracket fits, tack it in place - while it's attached to the windshield.

Now drop the windshield again and see if you're happy with the location of everything...door surrounds, soft top fitment, everything.

If you are, then weld it all together. You need to pay attention to how you weld it so the cage & parts don't warp. Heat will warp stuff. A professional welder will know how to weld so that everything ends up square.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2173754)
Am I close? and if so what do I do about the two center bars and the one that goes parallel to the windshield frame, Cut off and re weld or leave alone?

You shouldn't have to mess with any of that. You should be able to flex the tubing just enough. If not, you may need to cut some of that stuff loose too, in order to position things were you need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston_Bruins30 (Post 2173754)

you shouldn't have to cut this at all.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:44 AM.