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-   -   35's and beefing up your front axle (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/35s-and-beefing-up-your-front-axle-148974.html)

Gottabstick 03-25-2012 11:24 PM

35's and beefing up your front axle
 
Hello all. Just wondering what y'alls opinion on front axel mods for a non wheeling jeep with 35's ? I've only seen it mentioned a couple of times on here and was wondering if anyone had input. I 've heard its tough on the stock axle when using 4wd or wheeling, but for me - mostly highways, few light trails- should I be concerned?

terminator012 03-25-2012 11:31 PM

Subscribed..... Looking into it myself.

XJ Knight 03-25-2012 11:34 PM

As far something like trussing,sleving, Chromoly shafs, goes with the way you said you plan on using your Jeep I would not worry.. Getting into those kinda of axle upgrades are for those who plan to trully put their JK D30 through a tougher test then what your doing

rics1997 03-26-2012 12:00 AM

Gussets are fairly cheap. I got Synergy Gussets, I would at least do that for 35. Even road conditions, 35's put strain on the axle and C's when turning especially at higher speeds. If you plan on trail riding later the a minimum of sleeves and rock crawling chromoly axles.

Highly recommend the gussets. Not a must but do recommend. I am at the offroad shop a lot and bent C's are very common with larger tires.

Jeep lunatic 03-26-2012 12:18 AM

Even the front Dana 44 gets the smile with 35's, so yeah I'd stay away from 35's on a Dana 30 unless you truss it. The JK is wider so the axles are wider than a TJ's and Mopar engineers didn't have enough brains to make the axle tubes stronger to account for the added width. Jp magazine has had many write ups on this over the past few years.

Jeep lunatic 03-26-2012 12:19 AM

Stronger axle shafts won't keep the tubes from bending. Only thing to do is build a truss and make it strong.

KSPHI 03-26-2012 06:59 AM

Is the stock Rubicon Dana 44 front strong enough to support 35's? Should a 44 be sleeved and gusseted as well?

terminator012 03-26-2012 07:11 AM

Anyone on here running these?

Nitro dana 30 sleeve install - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum

They look like they could be a pain to install if not done correctly.

The Synergy gussets have plenty of write ups on how to install. You need to be a good welder though or hire it done.

SilverSport 03-26-2012 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSPHI (Post 2182602)
Is the stock Rubicon Dana 44 front strong enough to support 35's? Should a 44 be sleeved and gusseted as well?

If you are running mostly highway and a few light trails, don' worry about sleeves and gussets. Spend that mod money on something else.

kjeeper10 03-26-2012 07:49 AM

Run a lighter 35x15 combo like the Duratrac and alloy wheel.

My BF 35" list at 61 lbs.

zmotorsports 03-26-2012 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gottabstick (Post 2182130)
Hello all. Just wondering what y'alls opinion on front axel mods for a non wheeling jeep with 35's ? I've only seen it mentioned a couple of times on here and was wondering if anyone had input. I 've heard its tough on the stock axle when using 4wd or wheeling, but for me - mostly highways, few light trails- should I be concerned?

Personally, I would still run at least gussets on an otherwise street Jeep. Potholes and poor road conditions still transmit a lot of forces through the tires/wheels to the "c"s which could cause them to slip and/or deform. Gussets are merely cheap insurance against that. Sleeves are not needed nor chromoly axles for a street driven Jeep w/ 35" tires.

If you plan on doing any off-roading I would definately recommend both sleeves and gussets but mild to moderate off-roading does not require stronger axle shafts.

Mike.

zmotorsports 03-26-2012 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSPHI (Post 2182602)
Is the stock Rubicon Dana 44 front strong enough to support 35's? Should a 44 be sleeved and gusseted as well?

Same rules apply to the d44 as the d30 as the wall thicknesses of the front axle tubes are the same.

Mike.

zmotorsports 03-26-2012 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terminator012 (Post 2182616)
Anyone on here running these?

Nitro dana 30 sleeve install - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum

They look like they could be a pain to install if not done correctly.

The Synergy gussets have plenty of write ups on how to install. You need to be a good welder though or hire it done.

I have not used the Nitro sleeves but I have used the EVO sleeves which are similar. They are not what I would call a pain to install but they are a little time consuming. The mechanical part is pretty straight forward but when it comes time to the welding aspect of the project make sure a capable weldor performs this part as the welds should be of as high a quality as possible. It doesn't make much sense to spend time and money on a modification only to have an incapable person weld them in poorly.

It is not rocket science but you can damage/warp the axle if the proper sequence is not followed and too much heat is put into the axle housing. Anyone who is even somewhat experienced with welding can perform this modification properly by taking their time and not putting too much heat into the axle housing.

Mike.

SilverBolt 03-26-2012 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmotorsports (Post 2182775)
Personally, I would still run at least gussets on an otherwise street Jeep. Potholes and poor road conditions still transmit a lot of forces through the tires/wheels to the "c"s which could cause them to slip and/or deform. Gussets are merely cheap insurance against that. Sleeves are not needed nor chromoly axles for a street driven Jeep w/ 35" tires.

If you plan on doing any off-roading I would definately recommend both sleeves and gussets but mild to moderate off-roading does not require stronger axle shafts.

Mike.

This is sound advice. The option is to spend a couple of hundred to strengthen the housing now. Or spend a couple of grand to replace it later. Cheap insurance.

Daniel_M 03-26-2012 09:09 AM

The weakest point in the D30 is the ring and pinion. Most likely that will grenade IF there is a failure. The housing can be bent, however, that is what the beefing up is for. For you mainly mall crawler and 35’s then only inner c gussets will be fine. You don’t need trussing, or sleeves for on road only. There is a big misconception though in that JK D30’s are taking a shit all over the place.

Shoot I wheel my D30 and only have gussets.

The Nitro sleeves are easy to install, they are weldless. Be sure to clean the inside of your housing good, and if you think it is clean, it's not, clean some more. Then with a BFH and a 2x4, or better yet, a bearing race driver, hammer the sleeves in. Helps if you freeze the sleeves overnight prior to install.

-Dan

terminator012 03-26-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10
Run a lighter 35x15 combo like the Duratrac and alloy wheel.

My BF 35" list at 61 lbs.

I weighed my tires on the wheels. They weigh 86.6 pounds after balancing. They steelies and the 265 mudders weighed more than this combination with the duratracs.

kjeeper10 03-26-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terminator012

I weighed my tires on the wheels. They weigh 86.6 pounds after balancing. They steelies and the 265 mudders weighed more than this combination with the duratracs.

I need to drop my spare and get the actual
weight. On paper my tire 35x15 km2 is 61
lbs
my wheel is 23 lbs I believe.

That's 84 lbs

Stock 32x17 I read is 53 and 25 = 78

Can't be right ?

TheHighLow 03-26-2012 06:29 PM

Would a front Teraflex D44 be stronger than Rubi's stock D44. That's the setup i'm going up front with the ARB locker and 35's.

IndyJeepMan 03-26-2012 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighLow
Would a front Teraflex D44 be stronger than Rubi's stock D44. That's the setup i'm going up front with the ARB locker and 35's.

Either are plenty strong, thats alot of $$$ for a front axle for 35" IMO.

kbwwolf 03-26-2012 06:47 PM

Gussets, minimum, for 35's, regardless of axle. JMO.

I run 35's and plan to either sleeve & gusset the front, or buy a chromoly axle. Still looking into it. :)

Some good advice from Z and Rick above.

terminator012 03-26-2012 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmotorsports (Post 2182797)
I have not used the Nitro sleeves but I have used the EVO sleeves which are similar.

Mike.


Those EVO sleeves look pretty good. Is the any advantage to having the seal on it. Common sense would tell you that would be better.

I have a friend that has welded some stuff for me. I might run it by him and see what he thinks.

I think I had rather have the EVO or Nitro over this. But I don't have a clue which one is better.


PRESS RELEASE : PUREJEEP Jeep JK DANA 30/44 Axle Gusset Kit


At least you can't see the the other ones. Even the Gussets are different.

MarineHawk 03-27-2012 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep lunatic (Post 2182256)
Even the front Dana 44 gets the smile with 35's, so yeah I'd stay away from 35's on a Dana 30 unless you truss it. The JK is wider so the axles are wider than a TJ's and Mopar engineers didn't have enough brains to make the axle tubes stronger to account for the added width. Jp magazine has had many write ups on this over the past few years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep lunatic (Post 2182261)
Stronger axle shafts won't keep the tubes from bending. Only thing to do is build a truss and make it strong.

So, I assume Iím going to want something like this:

Synergy Suspension Inner C Upper & Lower Gusset Kit:
http://www.eadoffroad.com/jeep/wrangler-jk/jk-drive-line/jk-axle-trussing/synergy-suspension-ppm-8009-07-synergy-jeep-jk-front-d30-44-hd-inner-c-gusset-kit

And then either:

This:
(A): Synergy Suspension Front Inner Axle Sleeve Kit:
http://www.eadoffroad.com/synergy-suspension-ppm-5901-30-synergy-jeep-jk-lj-tj-xj-zj-dana-30-44-inner-axle-sleeve-kit

Or this:
(B) 3.0" X .250 4130 replacement axle tubes designed for the 2007+ Jeep JK Dana 44 Front Axle:
http://www.eadoffroad.com/jeep/wrangler-jk/jk-drive-line/jk-axle-trussing/poly-performance-ppm-8009-20-synergy%20-jeep-jk-front-d44-hd-tube-set-3-inch-od-tube

Which is the better way to go? Is there any reason for doing the replacement Tube instead of the sleeve if you havenít already wasted your axle tube?

Am I correct that, if you replace the tube, you gotta replace your track-bar bracket and your LCA and lower-shock mounts (I just replaced those)? http://www.eadoffroad.com/jeep/wrangler-jk/jk-drive-line/jk-axle-trussing/poly-performance-ppm-8009-40-jeep-jk-front-dana-44-axle-hd-3-inch-extreme-re-tube-kit

And then is the advantage for doing all that with a replacement tube that you have a 73%-stronger axle tube versus a 59% increase if you just do the sleeve?

If so, Iím hoping that a 59% increase is enough so I donít have to spend fortune on my axle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbwwolf (Post 2184994)
I run 35's and plan to either sleeve & gusset the front, or buy a chromoly axle. Still looking into it. :)

Does this mean you're going to build a new tube also?

zmotorsports 03-27-2012 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terminator012 (Post 2185587)
Those EVO sleeves look pretty good. Is the any advantage to having the seal on it. Common sense would tell you that would be better.

I have a friend that has welded some stuff for me. I might run it by him and see what he thinks.

I think I had rather have the EVO or Nitro over this. But I don't have a clue which one is better.


PRESS RELEASE : PUREJEEP Jeep JK DANA 30/44 Axle Gusset Kit


At least you can't see the the other ones. Even the Gussets are different.

There are pros and cons to both internal and external support. Personally, I wanted the smoother look so I chose the internal sleeves to get my strength through more wall thickness. I also am a little more prone to think that the external would be a place where dirt, mud and road grime could get caught in.

If your friend feels comfortable welding those sleeves in when you are ready let me know and I can give some pointers and walk you/him through it.

Mike.

zmotorsports 03-27-2012 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighLow (Post 2184935)
Would a front Teraflex D44 be stronger than Rubi's stock D44. That's the setup i'm going up front with the ARB locker and 35's.

Yes the Teraflex d44 front axle is going to be stronger as their wall thickness is .312" vs. the stock Rubicon is .250" wall thickness. Also, a Dynatrac d44 housing is also .312" wall thickness with their HD version being .500" but you have to special order that one. Last I heard that Teraflex would also build you one that is .500" but there again, that is going to be a special order (read $$$).

By sleeving a stock d44 (or d30 for that matter) you are adding and additional .250" to the already .250" wall thickness. It is not the same as having a true .500" axle tube but adding two wall thicknesses via sleeves definately adds a lot of strength. I have only seen one sleeved d44 axle break but that was not first hand and I know the guy wheels the hell out of his rig. He drives it harder than I could ever drive or treat a vehicle so I think a sleeved axle housing is going to be strong enough for the majority of the rigs out there even running upwards of 37" tires.

Mike.

MarineHawk 03-27-2012 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmotorsports (Post 2187060)
There are pros and cons to both internal and external support. Personally, I wanted the smoother look so I chose the internal sleeves to get my strength through more wall thickness. I also am a little more prone to think that the external would be a place where dirt, mud and road grime could get caught in.

If your friend feels comfortable welding those sleeves in when you are ready let me know and I can give some pointers and walk you/him through it.

Mike.

Thanks Mike. I would rather go with the sleeve if it requires me to change fewer things. Do I need to change out anything else if I just do the sleeve? The installer I have been using has done this before.

I already put these LCA kids on: Skid Row Offroad JP-5008 - Skid Row Offroad Front Lower Control Arm Skid Plates for 07-12 Jeepģ Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

I assume I can keep them since they are bolt on, right? (I ask because this kit comes with LCA skids: Synergy Suspension Jeep JK Dana 30/44 Inner Axle Sleeve Upgrade Kit).

Gottabstick 03-27-2012 08:49 AM

Thanks for the responses. Looks like gussets it is. Now just to find a local welder I can trust to tack them on. I see the synergy ones are only 65$ , gotta think 30-40$ for the labor. 100$, not bad for a bit of peace of mind IMHO

zmotorsports 03-27-2012 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarineHawk (Post 2187103)
Thanks Mike. I would rather go with the sleeve if it requires me to change fewer things. Do I need to change out anything else if I just do the sleeve? The installer I have been using has done this before.

I already put these LCA kids on: Skid Row Offroad JP-5008 - Skid Row Offroad Front Lower Control Arm Skid Plates for 07-12 Jeepģ Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

I assume I can keep them since they are bolt on, right? (I ask because this kit comes with LCA skids: Synergy Suspension Jeep JK Dana 30/44 Inner Axle Sleeve Upgrade Kit).


I wouldn't necessarily say it would require you to change less things. I know some who have added the exterior truss without removing anything which in that case the inner sleeves would require a little more work as the axle shafts need to come out at minimum. I generally completely disassemble the axle including carrier and knuckles. This is mainly due to the fact that gears are being changed at the same time. I also like to bead blast the knuckles and repaint before re-installing but most shops will not do that so they more than likely will not remove the knuckles.

The inner sleeves are compatible with both stock axle shafts as well as most aftermarket axle shafts including RCV shafts. The only time they will not work is if you are adding an ARB AirLocker as they require a 35 spline axle shaft and most inner sleeves are sized to only accept up to a 32 spline shaft.

Think "down the road", if you are ever think you will go to an ARB then the exterior truss may be a better approach so you will have that option. Personally, I like the ELocker better than the ARB so a 32 spline is all I will ever need.

As far as the bolt on skids for your LCA, they will work with either although I am probably a bigger fan of the weld on ones, especially if you are having welding done already.

Mike.

EAD Offroad 03-27-2012 09:12 AM

MarineHawk,

You have it about right, there are two choices, inner tube or outer tube.

The outer tube is slightly stronger (more metal). The big cons of the outer tube is that you now have gone from a 2.5" OD axle tube to a 3.0" axle tube so none of the brackets fit anymore. Thirdly the labor skill level/cost required with an outer tube is higher. Pros, it's stonger.


Pis are worth a 1000 words.

Outer full kit
http://www.eadoffroad.com/image/cach...-1-300x300.jpg

Inner kit
http://www.eadoffroad.com/image/cach...-1-300x300.jpg


I think Synergy came up with a great product with the inner kit, C-Gussets and LCA skids. Those get you the biggest bang for the buck IMHO.


As far as pulling the axle. I would, it's just easier to work on and you can paint it while it's out and make it look pretty. Pulling a JK axle is relativity quick and personally I think you would save time. I'd also pull the ball joints and install some Synergy HD BJs while you are at it. FWIW on that note, Synergy are out of BJs until May 1st and I have 4 sets left here but they are going fast. If you decide to go that route PM me and I'll put a set aside for you.

EAD Offroad 03-27-2012 09:19 AM

I think I missed a Q about axle shafts. Adding Chomolly shafts is never a bad idea, they can still twist and break but it takes more work.

I actually run stock shafts on my Rubicon because I'm cheap. I buy take offs from people who upgrade for next to nothing and keep them for spares. I bust at least one or two axle shafts each wheeling season but have got to the point I can swap them on a trail now in 30 minutes :D

One nice thing about a JK is that you can take any of the shafts out and still limp off a trail and even drive a couple hundered miles home. Done that :facepalm:

MarineHawk 03-27-2012 01:10 PM

Thanks Alec. Ordering now, including the ball joints.


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