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-   -   Best quality spark plugs? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/best-quality-spark-plugs-153058.html)

joshbarb2 04-12-2012 10:16 AM

Best quality spark plugs?
 
So I'm doing a few upgrades to Jefe the Jeep and im wondering if anyone knows the best quality spark plugs to get

Jerry Bransford 04-12-2012 10:34 AM

A little information on your jeep would be helpful.

Ron Lee 04-12-2012 10:35 AM

Typically....
 
I use Autolites in everything I run...from my '64 GTO Tri-Power four speed to my '74 Harley FLH 88" stroker. Best built...AC's leak around the porcelain, Champions won't hold a gap. :cool: BTW...I worked for 14 years at Jeg's High Performance as a sales/tech advisor...fwiw. Ron :rolleyes:

Murray8503 04-12-2012 10:45 AM

Wish I would have seen your post yesterday Ron Lee. I just bought new champion plugs yesterday.

scot68 04-12-2012 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Lee (Post 2249679)
I use Autolites in everything I run...from my '64 GTO Tri-Power four speed to my '74 Harley FLH 88" stroker. Best built...AC's leak around the porcelain, Champions won't hold a gap. :cool: BTW...I worked for 14 years at Jeg's High Performance as a sales/tech advisor...fwiw. Ron :rolleyes:

That's interesting about the Champions.. I run the Champion Double Platinums in three 5.7L Hemi vehicles and my 4.0L TJ. I have never had a problem with misfires or premature wear. With that said I have had good luck with Autolite and NGK in the past.
Whatever you do stay away from Bosch plugs!!!

2002TJ 04-12-2012 02:22 PM

The absolute best plugs to use on your Jeep, Chevy, Ford or whatever is exactly what it came with from factory.


These multi billion dollar companies spend lotsa effort developing today's engines to deliver the most power, reliability and efficiency...

Go read the horror stories about failed aftermarket plugs and save yourself the bucks and trouble.

I'm not saying you can't improve on OEM ignition, but it simply isn't necessary on our modern stock engines unless highly modified with higher compression and redlines.

TJeepman 04-12-2012 04:02 PM

From the Owner Manual:
Quote:

Refer to the “Vehicle Emission Control Information” label in the engine compartment for spark plug information.
The OE choices for my Jeep are copper core Champion and NGK as per the above emissions label, which also gives the part #s. The Mopar ones here are made by NGK the last time I checked. Both work fine. No need to borrow trouble by experimenting with something else. Whatever you do, stay away from the fancy plugs unless you want burnt pistons. The KISS principle applies.

I run Champion Double Platinums in my two Dodge Grand Caravans, the best and most trouble free spark plugs for those vehicles. Owners experimenting with Bosch spark plugs generally regret it.

2002TJ 04-12-2012 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJeepman (Post 2250863)
From the Owner Manual:


The OE choices for my Jeep are copper core Champion and NGK as per the above emissions label, which also gives the part #s. The Mopar ones here are made by NGK the last time I checked. Both work fine. No need to borrow trouble by experimenting with something else. Whatever you do, stay away from the fancy plugs unless you want burnt pistons. The KISS principle applies.

I run Champion Double Platinums in my two Dodge Grand Caravans, the best and most trouble free spark plugs for those vehicles. Owners experimenting with Bosch spark plugs generally regret it.

I totally AGREE with you.

Gents, I'm 59 years old and stuck my head under my first hood back in the '60's....

Back then I was just like you younger guys and read every mag and all the marketing hype published, and spent all my extra cash on that junk....My dad laffed at me and told me to shut the hood and just drive it and spend my money buying cokes and burgers on the skirts.

He was SO right.

I've smartened up since and built several very powerful and reliable rigs both 4 wheeled and 2.....in the process I learned to respect the factory engineers and their unmatched resources compared to the aftermarket guys when dealing with stock engines..

Yeah, time has proven that sometimes the bottom line drives OEM to cut a few corners, but given time they correct themselves because that same bottom line bites them in the fashion of Gov mandated recalls.

Before you EVER buy ANY Bosch vehicle product, do your researce and find ANY OEM that uses that particular product or sticks with it when they do.

Ask my buddy who bought a late model Chevy diesel truck with bosh injectors when GM tried to use cheaper than Isizu injectors on those Isizu diesel engines....He was lucky to find replacement rebuilt injectors for less than 3K and had to pay 16 hours labor to install them.

Stay away from Bosch anything unless it came OEM and is still being used by OEM

Jerry Bransford 04-12-2012 07:55 PM

The cheapest plugs are copper core and that's what the factory installs to save a few bucks per vehicle. Cheapest doesn't usually equal best.

But until the OP tells us what model year Jeep and which engine he's running, it's impossible to give him an accurate valid spark plug recommendation.

htkrph 04-12-2012 08:24 PM

04 i6 Auto... what would be the good ones for me?

wwch99tj 04-12-2012 08:26 PM

Autolite app985

Patrick H 04-12-2012 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwch99tj (Post 2251821)
Autolite app985

That's what I'm running in mine. Make sure you don't get the AP985. The double P means double platinum.

vamil93 04-12-2012 08:31 PM

I run Champion 7034's. Have not had a problem with them. Replaced the factory NGK's about a month ago.

Jerry Bransford 04-12-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htkrph (Post 2251812)
04 i6 Auto... what would be the good ones for me?

Your '04 4.0L engine is what is known as a DIS (Distributorless Ignition System) which is far fussier about what spark plugs it likes to run well on. A DIS ignition system also fires the spark plugs twice as often which means a conventional copper-core spark plug only lasts half as long in this type of engine. All 4.0L engines that are 2000 and newer have the DIS ignition system. 1999 and older 4.0L engines aren't nearly as fussy so long as they are the right model plug. 2000 and newer 4.0L engines won't run well for long on single-tipped Platinum plugs, even though some catalogs show them as an acceptable plug. So do avoid any platinum plug that only has platinum on the center electrode.

Which is why I always recommend dual-tipped Platinum or Iridium spark plugs which will perform well for at least 100K miles. Iridium tipped plugs will last significantly longer than even the 100K miles dual-tipped platinum plugs will.

Good dual-tipped platinum plugs include the Autolite APP-985 and Champion 7034. NGK has a good dual-tipped platinum plug called the Laser Platinum that would work well too but I don't have the NGK p/n for that particular plug.

A good iridium tipped plug for your engine would be the Autolite XP-985. A technical trainer I know at Autolite checked his iridium plugs at 165K miles and they showed no visible wear.

Such plugs last so long that it's a good idea to smear a dab of copper-based antiseize onto their threads before screwing them into the head. Make sure no antiseize gets onto the electrodes (tip).

A good writeup on what makes a DIS ignition system so fussy and go through conventional plugs twice as fast is at http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/te...fe%20Plugs.pdf

So while conventional plugs are what the factory installs and they are the cheapest, that doesn't mean they are the best choice for replacement spark plugs. :)

JEREMYTJ 04-13-2012 11:22 AM

Has any one tryed the E3 plugs?? They are supposed to be the best out and they prove it too but im not spending about 8 bucks a plugg unless i get 20 replys that u should buy them lol

zeprider25 04-13-2012 12:56 PM

what you guys recommend on a 99 TJ 4.0?

TJeepman 04-13-2012 01:03 PM

KISS - Go with what the Manufacturer says. Anything else is an experiment and good luck with that. You are on your own in more ways than one.

As Jerry says, the copper core plugs (specified by by Manufacturer per emissions label in the engine compartment) are the cheaper and don't last as long but ...... they work just fine and there's no need to be concerned about the plugs seizing up by being in the engine 3 times as long.

My next plugs will be either Champion RC12ECC or NGKZFR5N / Mopar SP000ZFR5N, all per the emissions label. The replacement interval is 30,000 miles / 48,000 kms. You could regap them and reuse them after that if you wanted to, but I don't bother. If reusing, might want to apply a dab of appropriate anti-seize to the bottom two threads.

For new plugs, no anti-seize required per the manufacturer's instructions (below). Using anti-seize can be risky, as many say, plus don't want that stuff on the firing end.

Double platinum plugs are good where specified. My two Garand Carvans call for Champion double platinums and that is what they get, no if, ands or buts. Replacement interval is 102,000 miles / 170,000 kms but I usually do mine at about 60,000 miles / 100,000 kms anyway, 100,000 kms is an easy number to remember. Copper core plugs can be used in those vans as well but that's not what's called for. Considering how hard it is to get at those back plugs in the Caravan, long lasting plugs are a bonus.

Don't get taken by the glitter or hype. My engine has purred like a kitten for many years now (since August 2004) using the ho hum specified spark plugs.

Champion Instructions: Champion - A Complete Guide To Spark Plug Performance
Quote:

Here are a couple of tips to help assure the success of changing spark plugs. The first is to remove spark plugs from aluminum cylinder heads only when the engine is cool. Since aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates, removing spark plugs from an aluminum cylinder head while hot can actually cause thread and cylinder head damage. Before installing the spark plugs, make sure the threads are clean and in good condition. If in doubt, run a thread chaser through the plug opening in the cylinder head. Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.
Also take a look at the above Champion web site for their writeups on Copper Core, Double Platinum, etc.

NGK Technical Bulletin: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/TB-...1antisieze.pdf
Quote:

For spark plugs with special metal plating simply do not use anti-seize on initial
Installation; All NGK Spark Plugs are manufactured with a special trivalent Zinc-chromate shell plating that is designed to prevent both corrosion and seizure to the cylinder head; Thus eliminating the need for any thread compounds or lubricants.
Additional Information
NGK recommends only using spark plugs with metal plating on all aluminum head applications to prevent damage to the head and plug. Metal shell plating acts as a “lubricant” which breaks away from the main body of the spark plug during removal, preventing damage to the spark plug and or threads in the cylinder head.

Jerry Bransford 04-13-2012 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeprider25 (Post 2254233)
what you guys recommend on a 99 TJ 4.0?

Autolite AP985 and Champion 3034 are two very good choices. Both are single tipped platinum that will perform well for 100k miles.

So far as E3 plugs go, I consider them to be the modern day equivalent to snake oil... Just more shoddily made.

ipleadda2nd 04-13-2012 03:25 PM

I just went with the Champion 7034 (double platinum) per Jerry's recommendation. Here's the deal.

The plugs I pulled out (at 74,000 miles) were Champion 438 (traditional, no platinum). Were they the factory originals? IDK. The tip had eroded away so bad causing such a large gap, my gap tool couldn't even measure it.

Geez. After replacement my Jeep runs a little smoother and a little more power. Gas millage is yet to be determined.

So there's a real world example of how traditional plugs don't last long in DIS ignitions.

rrich 04-13-2012 04:42 PM

74,000 miles and they don't last long? GET REAL!

If you like the poor quality of FRAM filters, you'll LOVE Autolites!

I just had to throw another set of Autolite plugs in the trash yesterday. Customer put them in less than 1000 miles ago. It wouldn't pass smog - HC 800 at idle, should be less than 100PPM.

Champions did the trick. HC 40 now.

TJeepman 04-13-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd (Post 2254746)
I just went with the Champion 7034 (double platinum) per Jerry's recommendation. Here's the deal.

The plugs I pulled out (at 74,000 miles) were Champion 438 (traditional, no platinum). Were they the factory originals? IDK. The tip had eroded away so bad causing such a large gap, my gap tool couldn't even measure it.

So there's a real world example of how traditional plugs don't last long in DIS ignitions.

74,000 miles for a plug that should have been changed at 30,000 miles. Way overdue for sure. Copper core plugs are designed for high energy ignition systems, by the way.
Quote:

One of the features that makes the Copper Plus stand out among other spark plugs is an extra hard and dense ceramic insulator. This allows flawless functioning with high energy ignition systems, while maintaining extremely accurate heat ranges.
Yes, don't forget about heat ranges.

The plugs specified for an engine aren't necessarily the ones that are hottest, coldest or last the longest. The specified plugs for the engine are the right temperature plugs that suit the engine best per the engine manufacturer's design and operational tests. Second guessing the experts is a lot of fun though.

The 2005 Dodge Ram 5.7L Hemi had copper core plugs specified as OE. Was the engine manufacturer cheapskating the plugs? Of course not. They wanted optimum performance and that was the plug to use.

If they are good enough for a 5.7L Hemi V8, they are good enough for my 4.0L I6.

TOKKIE 04-13-2012 05:16 PM

The only thing I have to add is listen to Jerry. He knows his sheit. Some times the under hood sticker may not be correct, say maybe if there had been a tsb or something saying to change to double tipped platinum with the 4.0 and dis.

Racer38 04-13-2012 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwch99tj (Post 2251821)
autolite app985

x2

ipleadda2nd 04-13-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrich (Post 2254961)
74,000 miles and they don't last long? GET REAL!

Well, they didn't last that long. If the gap is that big, they must have been over spec for a long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJeepman (Post 2254976)
74,000 miles for a plug that should have been changed at 30,000 miles. Way overdue for sure.

Exactly. I'm not saying the plugs didn't last as long as rated. What I am saying is when compared to platinum they didn't last long. It's relativity man! And I'm not bringing cost into the equation. I wasn't commenting on value, just longevity.

htkrph 04-13-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 2251916)
Your '04 4.0L engine is what is known as a DIS (Distributorless Ignition System) which is far fussier about what spark plugs it likes to run well on. A DIS ignition system also fires the spark plugs twice as often which means a conventional copper-core spark plug only lasts half as long in this type of engine. All 4.0L engines that are 2000 and newer have the DIS ignition system. 1999 and older 4.0L engines aren't nearly as fussy so long as they are the right model plug. 2000 and newer 4.0L engines won't run well for long on single-tipped Platinum plugs, even though some catalogs show them as an acceptable plug. So do avoid any platinum plug that only has platinum on the center electrode.

Which is why I always recommend dual-tipped Platinum or Iridium spark plugs which will perform well for at least 100K miles. Iridium tipped plugs will last significantly longer than even the 100K miles dual-tipped platinum plugs will.

Good dual-tipped platinum plugs include the Autolite APP-985 and Champion 7034. NGK has a good dual-tipped platinum plug called the Laser Platinum that would work well too but I don't have the NGK p/n for that particular plug.

A good iridium tipped plug for your engine would be the Autolite XP-985. A technical trainer I know at Autolite checked his iridium plugs at 165K miles and they showed no visible wear.

Such plugs last so long that it's a good idea to smear a dab of copper-based antiseize onto their threads before screwing them into the head. Make sure no antiseize gets onto the electrodes (tip).

A good writeup on what makes a DIS ignition system so fussy and go through conventional plugs twice as fast is at http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/te...fe%20Plugs.pdf

So while conventional plugs are what the factory installs and they are the cheapest, that doesn't mean they are the best choice for replacement spark plugs. :)

and now I know. Once again I have been to school and back thank you! :flowers:

stuckinwater 04-13-2012 05:59 PM

Anyone have any input about plugs on a 2.5?
Would the plugs do any difference on the 4 banger than in the I6??
For example, could I run the double platinum ones that y'all are runnin in ur 4.0s?

TJeepman 04-13-2012 06:06 PM

JK (spit) specifies double platinum plugs. Isn't that a 3.8L minivan engine in the JK?

Aren't the double platinum plugs meant to be long life plugs for passenger cars and trucks with automatic transmissions? The real trucks use copper core. :)

TJeepman 04-13-2012 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuckinwater (Post 2255218)
Anyone have any input about plugs on a 2.5?
Would the plugs do any difference on the 4 banger than in the I6??
For example, could I run the double platinum ones that y'all are runnin in ur 4.0s?

Check what your emissions label in your engine compartment says and then experiment with a cross referenced double platinum, or whatever. You will be the first to know how they perform in your vehicle.

The 2.5L has been discussed before: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/what...ugs-43438.html

My advice: Sleep well; be happy; don't borrow trouble; don't expect a spark plug manufacturer to go good for a poor performing plug regardless of what hype and glitter they throw at it to get you to buy it; take the path of least complication and least unknowns and the one with the best "expert" opinion - your emissions label.

wwch99tj 04-13-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuckinwater
Anyone have any input about plugs on a 2.5?
Would the plugs do any difference on the 4 banger than in the I6??
For example, could I run the double platinum ones that y'all are runnin in ur 4.0s?

I run the AP-985 in mine with no problems

stuckinwater 04-13-2012 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwch99tj

I run the AP-985 in mine with no problems

The double platinum or the non-double platinum ones?


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