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-   -   Jeep ride is toast!!! (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f62/jeep-ride-is-toast-153679.html)

scottmphoto 04-15-2012 01:51 PM

Jeep ride is toast!!!
 
So after the lift party, I took the JK for a longer test ride. The thing is all over the road...wandering. I need both hands on the wheel at all times, especially after bumps.:nonono:

I took it on the freeway today - bad idea.

So I did some Googling...found a couple of options and I wanted to bounce some ideas off you all.

1. Found this blog post. Symptoms seem like mine.

2. Is this a good idea? Problem is, with the new Rubi springs, I really don't know how much lift I ended up with. Might be hard to get an exact bracket size.

3. What about caster bolts?

4. I might just take it to a shop for a once over. Hopefully this will be an easy fix. I don't feel safe driving it, so she'll sit for now.

Thanks for your input!!

Scott

DrHolliday 04-15-2012 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmphoto (Post 2261460)
So after the lift party, I took the JK for a longer test ride. The thing is all over the road...wandering. I need both hands on the wheel at all times, especially after bumps.:nonono:

I took it on the freeway today - bad idea.

So I did some Googling...found a couple of options and I wanted to bounce some ideas off you all.

1. Found this blog post. Symptoms seem like mine.

2. Is this a good idea? Problem is, with the new Rubi springs, I really don't know how much lift I ended up with. Might be hard to get an exact bracket size.

3. What about caster bolts?

4. I might just take it to a shop for a once over. Hopefully this will be an easy fix. I don't feel safe driving it, so she'll sit for now.

Thanks for your input!!

Scott

Get some front Adjustable LCA's You'll be able to adjust your camber that way. Your flighty when driving it b/c as you lift it with the stock control arms you loose caster. and that gives you that hard to drive feeling.

These ones seem to be popular

Rusty's Adjustable Front Lower Control Arms w/ Forged Flex End (JK) - JK Wrangler & Rubicon ('07+) - Jeep Control Arms & Accessories - Jeep Suspension

But you don't need those ones, you can buy any companies LCA's.

I wouldn't do caster bolts. Just don't like the idea of those moving around on ya. And I wouldn't worry about the track bars just yet. Its more of an appearance thing and shouldn't cause any excessive tire wear for you.

If you go to an alignment shop they will probably try to sell you on adjustable ball joints that are $100 to $150 each. LCA's are just cheaper and easier to adjust for any lift you might upgrade to.

scottmphoto 04-15-2012 02:50 PM

Thanks! Are those LCAs something I can install?

DrHolliday 04-15-2012 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmphoto (Post 2261595)
Thanks! Are those LCAs something I can install?

Yup, easy to install, do a little bit of reading, I'm thinking I recal if you set the length to 23" center to center on them then your caster should be close to stock specs.

TheRock 04-15-2012 06:15 PM

Boo! Looks like we have another work day in our future, eh? It felt ok in second gear. :(

Cold 04-15-2012 06:18 PM

Scott,
Sorry to heat about your issues :(

Bump steer is when you hit a bump and you feel it in the steering wheel or the Jeep bounces around. You have a bracket installed to correct this behavior so I would try a quick and easy fix like letting some of the air out of your tires. That can help a lot. If you are running higher pressure with E rated tires and stiffer springs it can bounce all over the place and feel highly unstable. Drop it down to 30psi and see if that makes a difference.

As for the amount of lift, technically you only have 2.5" of lift. The higher spring rates of the Rubi coils just hold the weight better so its closer to where the factory intended it to ride. They arent actually taller, just stronger so they sag less. The Teraflex track bar bracket should account for this.

With lifting the Jeep you lose caster and the only way to fix that is with adjustable front lower control arms. They aren't to difficult to install. Just a few tools. If you need a hand there are a few of us that can help you out. ;)

Robert

scottmphoto 04-15-2012 10:56 PM

Thanks Robert....

I guess I'd like someone with experience to just take it for a spin...and let me know what they think. Can we pick a time where we could meet up?

On the adjustable CAs, is that something I will absolutely need or just a worst case scenario?

She's a daily driver for me, so I need to order anything possible soon..

I do feel some bump steer issues, but I also feel like I am constantly having to steer, even on straight stretches of road. Almost like a boat at low speed....just feels odd.

Any feedback greatly appreciated.

Scott

07UnlimitedX 04-15-2012 11:07 PM

Adjustable control arms are a worst case scenario. I'm up 4"+ on stock control arms. Did you try lowering tire pressures a little bit?

darkproximity 04-15-2012 11:11 PM

pardon me butting into your local thread, but your steering issue is no doubt coming from true bump steer, if your trac bar and drag link dont travel in the same arc then you will definitely get bump steer..

take a picture of your axle from the front so you can see the steering linkage and the trac bar.

darkproximity 04-15-2012 11:12 PM

read this article, it will explain it better than i can

Jeep Parts, Jeep Accessories & Jeep Soft Tops From The Jeep Parts Experts - Quadratec

this becomes a problem on any vehicle with trac bars when you lift them and don't address the steering.

07UnlimitedX 04-15-2012 11:17 PM

These angles were not changed for the installation of the lift. The lowering bracket was installed, thus keeping all angles within close proximity of the stock angles.

Cold 04-15-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkproximity (Post 2263597)
read this article, it will explain it better than i can

Jeep Parts, Jeep Accessories & Jeep Soft Tops From The Jeep Parts Experts - Quadratec

this becomes a problem on any vehicle with trac bars when you lift them and don't address the steering.

We installed a trackbar drop bracket that came with the Teraflex kit.

darkproximity 04-15-2012 11:21 PM

I'd still be interested in seeing a picture, just because teraflex sent you a bracket doesn't mean much to me, ive seen the wrong parts be sent before. something as bad as he described where he feels its unsafe to drive.. then there is something wrong there. even slightly different angles will give you negative steering inputs. one of the reason i advocate yj owners to ditch their track bar all together. obviously not an option for coil springs so you'll have to really get a good look at it.

darkproximity 04-15-2012 11:33 PM

Also, did you install a drop pitman arm?

scottmphoto 04-16-2012 12:17 AM

@ Dark, I got home late tonight and will post a pic in the daytime.

I did some DIY alignment tonight (many thanks to Cold) and it helped a bit on the surface streets but TC (traction control) still engaged on an I5 onramp and had to be switched off. When ever I let off the accelerator, its a hard pull to the Right. On the gas, it seems relatively OK. Then we just have these totally random TC engagements....

Will take it for an alignment tomorrow by a pro shop.

scottmphoto 04-16-2012 12:31 AM

Here are some shots I tool quickly in the dark. Not sure if they help or not.

Scott

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5113/6...cf7d161f_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7063/6...01d89534_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5031/6...1421409b_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/7...286dae82_b.jpg

scottmphoto 04-16-2012 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 07UnlimitedX (Post 2263575)
Adjustable control arms are a worst case scenario. I'm up 4"+ on stock control arms. Did you try lowering tire pressures a little bit?

Not yet.....Cold talked me through a self-alignment tonight. Tomorrow I'll air down a bit...I am running 65psi right now.:angel:

darkproximity 04-16-2012 12:52 AM

dang thats high pressure!

you can tell from the 2nd to last picture you posted that your trac bar and drag link are at very different angles, i guarantee you this is giving you the negative steering input. i've driven a tj that had bump steer and man i agree it makes you nervous. i'm not saying that you DONT need to adjust caster and toe in, but the majority of the holy crap factor is coming from your misaligned angles.. if you take a pic just like that 2nd to last one, but just a tad further back i'll photochop some lines over it and show you what im talking about.

scottmphoto 04-16-2012 01:42 PM

Verdict is in...courtesy of Les Schwab. The Track bar relocation bracket had 3 bolts. None of which were tight. He torqued them up. My alignment wasnt bad ( I did some of it at home last night).

She drives like a scolded cat again!!!!

scottmphoto 04-16-2012 03:12 PM

Here is the alignment report for the data nerds.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5116/6...39629e1f_b.jpg

Cold 04-16-2012 04:13 PM

Ill have to compare that to mine!

AprilsRevenge 04-17-2012 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold (Post 2266030)
Ill have to compare that to mine!

Robert, your papers are on top of the washer ;-). I found them while cleaning today..:punk: I'm glad everyones rigs are up and running!

~April~

scoobyjeep 04-18-2012 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmphoto (Post 2265778)
Here is the alignment report for the data nerds.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5116/6...39629e1f_b.jpg

those specs don't look to bad, doesn't look like you need adjustable control arms yet, i would look at your track bar/drag link angles. it almost looks like you could remove the track bar drop bracket

BobbyM 04-20-2012 11:45 AM

JK's are sensative when it comes to align specs, the toe in the rear looks off a little ways and the front lower adjustables would help more, so you can put some more caster in it, Jeeps are anal when it comes to caster,

IslandTJ 04-20-2012 02:12 PM

Now it's time to test it on the trails ;)

scoobyjeep 04-20-2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyM (Post 2283100)
JK's are sensative when it comes to align specs, the toe in the rear looks off a little ways and the front lower adjustables would help more, so you can put some more caster in it, Jeeps are anal when it comes to caster,

their is a fine line between having good caster and getting your pinion angle, pinion angle is more important

BobbyM 04-21-2012 11:38 PM

with a JK you can achieve ALOT of caster and still keep decent pinion angle

scottmphoto 04-23-2012 11:45 AM

Newb question.....how do I adjust caster/pinion?

Cold 04-23-2012 08:53 PM

Adjustable control arms.

STLRubi 05-02-2012 02:23 PM

Not sure why you have a front drop bracket installed on a 2.5" BB. TF recommends this for a 4"+ lift in combination with forged drag link flip kit. TF 2.5 BB and spring lifts only include a rear drop bracket.


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