Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   TJ Tech Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/)
-   -   Currie Johnny Joint UCA Mount Welding? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/currie-johnny-joint-uca-mount-welding-159799.html)

ipleadda2nd 05-12-2012 09:30 PM

Currie Johnny Joint UCA Mount Welding?
 
I want to get the Currie Johnny Joint kit that replaces the front passenger side upper control arm mount. The thing is 1" thick! Would a 180 amp welder be able to do this?

longtooth 05-12-2012 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd
I want to get the Currie Johnny Joint kit that replaces the front passenger side upper control arm mount. The thing is 1" thick! Would a 180 amp welder be able to do this?

Yes

ipleadda2nd 05-12-2012 11:03 PM

Awesome! The reason I ask is the Hobart 187 is rated at 5/16" steel. The Currie mount is 1". Do I need to do multiple passes or something?

I guess I don't understand why the 5/16" rating does not apply here.

Jerry Bransford 05-12-2012 11:17 PM

The mount isn't made from 1" steel, what are you talking about welding that is 1" thick? :confused:

longtooth 05-13-2012 12:23 AM

OP your looking at it wrong. The houseing that holds the jj is around 1" thick, the mount your welding it too is not. So it is an easy weld, I did mine with a miller 140.

ipleadda2nd 05-13-2012 12:49 AM

OK, so it seems when a welder has a thickness rating it means only one of the two pieces being welded together needs to be less than or equal to that rating.

In this case one surface is 1" thick (the Currie JJ housing) and the other is around 1/8" thick (the factory UCA mount). Since one of those pieces is less than or equal to 5/16" it's OK.

TnDz TJ 05-13-2012 09:32 AM

Not stirring the pot....

What are you trying to do again?

I think you are confused.... post a pic of what you are welding. I have NEVER seen a 1" thick mount for a Jeep.... except for a recovery point.....

UnlimitedLJ04 05-13-2012 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd (Post 2362788)
I guess I don't understand why the 5/16" rating does not apply here.

don't look at the welders 5/16" rating as meaning much of anything.

it's all about how much heat (amperage) the machine can put into the material & area. The reason more heat is needed with thicker material is because it takes more heat to warm up.

But, you can cheat to achieve better weld penetration. You can bevel the edge of the mount area, and then fill the removed material area with weld.

So, the mount is 1" thick...well you can bevel the edge with a grinder (or it may be beveled already from Currie). That basically increases the weldable "area". You'll then run one root pass to fill in the bevel, then run another one or two passes on top of that root pass, to cap the outside. basically filling in the bevel until you get a characteristic weld bead on top. be sure to alternate sides and let the work cool so it doesn't warp the hell out of it.

http://www.weldingpositions.com/wp-c...reparation.jpg
from: http://www.weldingpositions.com/doub...eparation.html

ipleadda2nd 05-13-2012 10:38 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for all the help of far. I wonder why you can't just push out the rubber bushing and press in a JJ. Why do you need the JJ housing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnDz TJ (Post 2363485)
Not stirring the pot....

What are you trying to do again?

I think you are confused.... post a pic of what you are welding. I have NEVER seen a 1" thick mount for a Jeep.... except for a recovery point.....

Here it is. You cut the factory UCA mount off the axle housing about half way down. This slides in the bottom half still attached to the axle housing and welded into place.

Attachment 122307

Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts

Black Magic Brakes 05-13-2012 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd (Post 2363644)
Thanks for all the help of far. I wonder why you can't just push out the rubber bushing and press in a JJ. Why do you need the JJ housing?

You don't have to use the 1" thick mount. You can do it much harder and work more.

http://justaddrocks.com/Mike%20K/DSC_2898.JPG
http://justaddrocks.com/Mike%20K/DSC_2903.JPG
http://justaddrocks.com/Mike%20K/DSC_2905.JPG

The reason you can't press in the JJ mount on the passenger side is there isn't enough press fit to retain the special JJ barrel and the mount on that side needs to be beefed up.

ipleadda2nd 05-13-2012 07:31 PM

Got it, thanks!

Deadman Walking 12-21-2012 09:01 PM

Nice looking welds.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes (Post 2363685)
You don't have to use the 1" thick mount. You can do it much harder and work more.

http://justaddrocks.com/Mike%20K/DSC_2898.JPG
http://justaddrocks.com/Mike%20K/DSC_2903.JPG
http://justaddrocks.com/Mike%20K/DSC_2905.JPG

The reason you can't press in the JJ mount on the passenger side is there isn't enough press fit to retain the special JJ barrel and the mount on that side needs to be beefed up.


ipleadda2nd 05-30-2013 12:44 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I chose to work harder.

Here is my implementation of what Black Magic Brakes was doing. I used a wire feed (with gas) welder instead of a TIG.

Since I'm still newish to welding I'm not sure how long of beads I can lay before warping. So I did 1" stitch welds. I do need to get better at overlapping the stitches to get them to look more continuous.

Attachment 255564

Attachment 255565

Attachment 255566

Jerry Bransford 05-30-2013 12:50 PM

I'm only a hack welder myself but I'd have to say that looks like some pretty good welding on top. Not sure about where it is welded to the tube though. I can't see it from the photo that well but is there adequate penetration into the tube? What size MIG welder? 110v or 220v?

ipleadda2nd 05-30-2013 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 3808116)
I'm only a hack welder myself but I'd have to say that looks like some pretty good welding on top. Not sure about where it is welded to the tube though. I can't see it from the photo that well but is there adequate penetration into the tube? What size MIG welder? 110v or 220v?

Thanks! I'm using a Hobart 187 with 75% Argon / 25% CO2 gas. It's 220V.

I don't have a better picture of the weld on the tube. I'm under the impression it does have good penetration. I'll post a pic and let me know what you think Jerry.

Black Magic Brakes 05-30-2013 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd (Post 3808096)
I chose to work harder.

Here is my implementation of what Black Magic Brakes was doing. I used a wire feed (with gas) welder instead of a TIG.

While I appreciate the compliment, that was done with a Mig and 75/25. That is a poor representation of what good welds should look like and I only do it that way to keep the heat down.

Yours is actually welded better. :D

freeskier 05-30-2013 05:58 PM

10 Attachment(s)
Good welds don't have to look pretty, only thing that matters is penetration.

Also as far as thickness "ratings" when welding two pieces of metal together there are a couple ways to go about doing it. You can either set up for the thinner of the metals and just weld, which is the safest. Or you can set up for the thicker of the metal but aim the heat/puddle more to the thicker metal. This will give you a better weld but if you aren't very experienced in welding you could also blow through the thinner metal.

ipleadda2nd 05-30-2013 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes (Post 3809057)
While I appreciate the compliment, that was done with a Mig and 75/25. That is a poor representation of what good welds should look like and I only do it that way to keep the heat down.

Yours is actually welded better. :D

My mind is officially blown!

Edit: Oh, you did a series of overlapping spot welds? Hmm, I'll keep this in mind, some day it may come in handy.

ipleadda2nd 05-30-2013 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeskier (Post 3809140)
Good welds don't have to look pretty, only thing that matters is penetration.

Also as far as thickness "ratings" when welding two pieces of metal together there are a couple ways to go about doing it. You can either set up for the thinner of the metals and just weld, which is the safest. Or you can set up for the thicker of the metal but aim the heat/puddle more to the thicker metal. This will give you a better weld but if you aren't very experienced in welding you could also blow through the thinner metal.

Thanks. I talked with a Hobart traveling rep once and he told me about this. I'm going to start implementing this technique, because I'm not satisfied with the welds when I turn the heat down to the lowest common denominator.

Black Magic Brakes 05-30-2013 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd (Post 3809193)
Thanks. I talked with a Hobart traveling rep once and he told me about this. I'm going to start implementing this technique, because I'm not satisfied with the welds when I turn the heat down to the lowest common denominator.

Welding thin to thick is very easy if you are a sight weldor that depends on puddle manipulation.

Simply run the bead on the hotter settings and start with it on the thicker material and as you move the bead along, just do a slight wash over to the thinner stuff and move back as soon as you see the puddle melt onto the thinner side.

Black Magic Brakes 05-30-2013 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeskier (Post 3809140)
Good welds don't have to look pretty, only thing that matters is penetration.

That is the mantra of crappy weldors worldwide. :rofl:

The simple fact is that if you are a proficient weldor, the mastery of technique and processes will automatically lend itself to clean looking welds. Everything else is BS.

Black Magic Brakes 05-30-2013 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd (Post 3809175)
My mind is officially blown!

Edit: Oh, you did a series of overlapping spot welds? Hmm, I'll keep this in mind, some day it may come in handy.

Yes, but not normal ones. That is a crappy technique that only has value in certain conditions. It is good to know how to do, just don't make a habit of it and use it for everything. The reason that one isn't what it appears is I adjusted the machine to be a bit slower and a whole bunch hotter. If I tried to do a continuous bead with it, it would blow big holes in the sheetmetal mount.

You do one spot and then the next one starts at the tip of the base of the puddle and you wash it back up onto the first one.

It's handy for doing tricky stuff that you want to look a certain way but it has been held up as an example of what a good weld should look like which is not true at all. That "stack o'dimes" BS comes from folks who are trying to imitate the process for Tig welding aluminum which has nothing to do with how you should be welding steel with a Mig.

That said, you can get tricky with the technique if you master it. ;)

http://www.justaddrocks.com/images/i...f/DSCN6938.jpg

toolmantim 05-30-2013 09:40 PM

Puddle manipulation. :thumb: Great term.

That IS welding. Beyond that your just looking for the proper balance needed to bond the 2 materials properly.

Black Magic Brakes 05-30-2013 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolmantim (Post 3809734)
Puddle manipulation. :thumb: Great term.

That IS welding. Beyond that your just looking for the proper balance needed to bond the 2 materials properly.

The value of being able to see what you are doing is rarely emphasized enough. A friend sent me a pic of his welds once where he was doing a lower control arm mount. The weld extended past the end of the tab onto the tube by about an inch and a half.

I told him to quit welding by braille and go get a good hood so he could see what he was doing.

freeskier 05-30-2013 10:14 PM

10 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes (Post 3809538)

That is the mantra of crappy weldors worldwide. :rofl:

The simple fact is that if you are a proficient weldor, the mastery of technique and processes will automatically lend itself to clean looking welds. Everything else is BS.

I guess all I was really trying to say is they don't need to look like works of art. Also to your point about seeing the puddle and a good hood. When I was learning I got super frustrated as I could barely get it started. I kept welding tips closed. I decided to buy an auto dimming hood with adjustable shade. Being able to see front start to finish and being able to adjust the shade to see the puddle AND the wire going into the puddle made a massive difference.

ipleadda2nd 06-05-2013 10:40 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 3808116)
I'm only a hack welder myself but I'd have to say that looks like some pretty good welding on top. Not sure about where it is welded to the tube though. I can't see it from the photo that well but is there adequate penetration into the tube? What size MIG welder? 110v or 220v?

Here's a pic of that weld on the tube. Now that I got better at welding I could get that bead to lay flatter. I probably should have increased the heat.

I plan on extending it an inch. I can redo it at that time if you think it didn't penetrate enough.

Attachment 257943

Black Magic Brakes 06-05-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd (Post 3827845)
Here's a pic of that weld on the tube. Now that I got better at welding I could get that bead to lay flatter. I probably should have increased the heat.

I plan on extending it an inch. I can redo it at that time if you think it didn't penetrate enough.

Attachment 257943

For that position, you are running a bit cold and moving a bit slow. Turn the heat up, or wire speed down and move slightly faster.

toolmantim 06-05-2013 12:25 PM

It kinda looks like your nozzle direction is giving you problems also. You need to move that thing around so that you can direct the heat where it needs to be.

nozzle angles and small circles are your friend.

Black Magic Brakes 06-05-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolmantim (Post 3828120)
It kinda looks like your nozzle direction is giving you problems also. You need to move that thing around so that you can direct the heat where it needs to be.

nozzle angles and small circles are your friend.

Not really. While angle is important, it is more important for new welders to learn puddle control, movement speed, heat and wire speed settings rather than becoming dependent upon some mystical gyrations of the electrode to make a good weld.

No circles here, and the only electrode manipulation was a very slight and by slight I mean no more than 1/16" side to side wash to wet out both sides evenly.

http://justaddrocks.com/robert%20yat...s/DSC_2401.JPG

Same here with only less manipulation.

http://justaddrocks.com/robert%20yat...s/DSC_2396.JPG

That is not to say that there is no time to use a pattern or manipulate the electrode, but learn to weld first and then the use of a pattern will come naturally.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 PM.