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-   -   4" lift question? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/4-lift-question-165180.html)

Jervboy 06-07-2012 10:47 AM

4" lift question?
 
I was looking at some full traction 3" lifts, they look as though you do not need to mod the drive shafts at all because of all of the adjustable components with the lift, ie..trackbar, ect...especially with a four door wrangler.
Is there a 4" lift out there that does not need any driveshaft mods or driveshaft replacements??

pluke the 2 06-07-2012 02:08 PM

No. After 3.5" of lift you should be looking for replacement drive lines.

snochick 06-07-2012 05:28 PM

The reason you need to change the driveshaft is bc anything over 3" is gonna cause the stock driveshaft to rub where that boot is. An aftermarket one is smaller in diameter and doesn't have the boot or need one negating the rub factor.

That being said I just installed a 3" and there's no issue there so something to consider. It's a 2011 though 2012 needs something extra due to different exhaust.

Jervboy 06-07-2012 05:36 PM

I was looking around at some other forums and some other sites and came up with this lift kit, Full Traction 4" Ultimate Suspension Systems, says no driveshaft mods needed because of the adjustable control arms??? And adjustable front and rear track bars???

pluke the 2 06-07-2012 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snochick (Post 2449388)
The reason you need to change the driveshaft is bc anything over 3" is gonna cause the stock driveshaft to rub where that boot is. An aftermarket one is smaller in diameter and doesn't have the boot or need one negating the rub factor.

That being said I just installed a 3" and there's no issue there so something to consider. It's a 2011 though 2012 needs something extra due to different exhaust.

if you have an automatic, you're going to have issues...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jervboy (Post 2449413)
I was looking around at some other forums and some other sites and came up with this lift kit, Full Traction 4" Ultimate Suspension Systems, says no driveshaft mods needed because of the adjustable control arms??? And adjustable front and rear track bars???

that's bullshit. it has to do with the shocks.

Ricky-2012JKU 06-07-2012 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jervboy
I was looking around at some other forums and some other sites and came up with this lift kit, Full Traction 4" Ultimate Suspension Systems, says no driveshaft mods needed because of the adjustable control arms??? And adjustable front and rear track bars???

That's just advertising. This is where companies like to play around with words like "not required". Yea do you NEED new drive shaft after a for inch lift. No, but it is highly highly recommend for a 4 inch lift. To give you an idea of all the 3 inch lifted jeeps at te local dealer here have stock DS. all the lifted keeps higher than 3 have jk 2dr front and rear aftermarket DS and jk 4dr have front aftermarket and rear stock.

snochick 06-07-2012 08:10 PM

This would be a good spot for someone to post a pic of what happens to the driveshaft if you don't change it.

pluke the 2 06-07-2012 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snochick (Post 2449943)
This would be a good spot for someone to post a pic of what happens to the driveshaft if you don't change it.

haha you will learn young one, you will learn. go out and disconnect your front sway bar links and really flex it out. don't pose it, flex it, crawl under and snap photos of that driveline.

snochick 06-07-2012 08:21 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is the problem area in the first pic. If we let the front axle travel too far it's going to rub. We will be replacing this soon. Because although it will probably work for awhile it is going to get damaged. This is our rubicon with a 3" lift.

Attachment 129860

In the 2nd pic you can see the difference with an aftermarket driveshaft. This Is my gecko with a 4" lift.

Hopefully this shows you the difference well enough to make sense. It doesn't matter what brand you buy. It has to do with the height.

snochick 06-07-2012 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snochick
Here is the problem area in the first pic. If we let the front axle travel too far it's going to rub. We will be replacing this soon. Because although it will probably work for awhile it is going to get damaged. This is our rubicon with a 3" lift.

In the 2nd pic you can see the difference with an aftermarket driveshaft. This Is my gecko with a 4" lift.

Hopefully this shows you the difference well enough to make sense. It doesn't matter what brand you buy. It has to do with the height.

Alright sorry flip the pics around. My first attempt at posting pics from my phone.

KSPHI 06-18-2012 09:56 PM

I've got a recently installed TeraFlex 4" kit on my '12 JKU. JUst looking at the front DS angle makes me nauseous. IMO, if you're going for the 4", absolutely budget for driveshafts. Sure, some say it's unnecessary, but if you're like me, and a bit of a worrier, the piece of mind derived from new shafts justifies the cost every time!

That said, I'm still waiting on my shafts :hide:

kjeeper10 06-19-2012 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSPHI
I've got a recently installed TeraFlex 4" kit on my '12 JKU. JUst looking at the front DS angle makes me nauseous. IMO, if you're going for the 4", absolutely budget for driveshafts. Sure, some say it's unnecessary, but if you're like me, and a bit of a worrier, the piece of mind derived from new shafts justifies the cost every time!

That said, I'm still waiting on my shafts :hide:

:popcorn:

Tumbleweed 08-06-2012 10:25 AM

IMHO this is what happened to me. The DS angled down and rubbed the Tranny skid bar.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../IMG_48721.jpg
Unbelievably, this boot is not available. The entire DS needs to be replaced. Incredible. You can replace the boot on a CV joint, a much more complicate item. Yet a slip joint, not so much. I might try to use a shock cover instead if I can find one the right diameter.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

Eric Chrisman 07-02-2013 01:10 AM

Please reply
 
So is it only necessary to replace the front drive shaft with a 4" lift?

wmwhitey 07-02-2013 01:20 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Sure go 4" with out an exhaust extension and a new front DS it will look like this if you go offroad I was not even flexing hard when this happened.

Tweak 07-02-2013 01:50 AM

the amount of clearance on a 3.6 is seriously tiny, I installed the spacers with my 3.5RK lift (more like 4.5) and I still rub. the general consensus is that the slip boot is not an integral part. aftermarket shafts dont have them. the CV boot however, is integral and once its seal is broken the driveshaft will soon follow.

wmwhitey 07-02-2013 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweak (Post 3919415)
the amount of clearance on a 3.6 is seriously tiny, I installed the spacers with my 3.5RK lift (more like 4.5) and I still rub. the general consensus is that the slip boot is not an integral part. aftermarket shafts dont have them. the CV boot however, is integral and once its seal is broken the driveshaft will soon follow.


I dont feel this is accurate I have friends that have ripped the boot on there stock DS and all we did was take it off pack it with grease and it has been holding strong over a year now and wheeled hard.

Tweak 07-02-2013 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmwhitey (Post 3919420)
I dont feel this is accurate I have friends that have ripped the boot on there stock DS and all we did was take it off pack it with grease and it has been holding strong over a year now and wheeled hard.

are you talking about the slip boot or the CV boot? thats good to know, I havent seen it, like I said its just been stated more than a few times around the forum, but that makes me feel better because I'm just waiting for a stick to jump up in there.

wmwhitey 07-02-2013 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweak (Post 3919424)
are you talking about the slip boot or the CV boot? thats good to know, I havent seen it, like I said its just been stated more than a few times around the forum, but that makes me feel better because I'm just waiting for a stick to jump up in there.

The slip boot the one I posted the pic of if the CV boot tears I would defiantly buy a new DS. I just installed a new front 1310 adams DS with solid spiced ujoints.

allthefineprint 03-19-2015 03:44 PM

[QUOTE=pluke the 2;2449675]if you have an automatic, you're going to have issues...

why do people keep qualifying the need for new drivelines with automatic? what's the difference between an automatic and a manual? isn't the issue the same - 2012 JKU manual here.

spinlock 03-19-2015 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jervboy (Post 2449413)
I was looking around at some other forums and some other sites and came up with this lift kit, Full Traction 4" Ultimate Suspension Systems, says no driveshaft mods needed because of the adjustable control arms??? And adjustable front and rear track bars???

The brand of lift is irrelevant. The problem is the same one every JK, although it is worse on the Pentastar. The exhaust crossover shown above happens to coincide the with widest diameter portion of the driveshaft; where the boot is located. As you lift the chassis the angle of the DS increases and it gets closer to the crossover. The smaller the space becomes the less you can flex the suspension before the boot rubs on the crossover heat shield and tears. Replacing the boot will not avoid or fix the problem.

You have 3 solutions. Either don't flex the suspension, move the exhaust crossover back with the TF exhaust spacers which buy you a couple of inches or use a smaller diameter shaft to increase the clearance.

allthefineprint 03-19-2015 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinlock (Post 17796321)
The brand of lift is irrelevant. The problem is the same one every JK, although it is worse on the Pentastar. The exhaust crossover shown above happens to coincide the with widest diameter portion of the driveshaft; where the boot is located. As you lift the chassis the angle of the DS increases and it gets closer to the crossover. The smaller the space becomes the less you can flex the suspension before the boot rubs on the crossover heat shield and tears. Replacing the boot will not avoid or fix the problem.

You have 3 solutions. Either don't flex the suspension, move the exhaust crossover back with the TF exhaust spacers which buy you a couple of inches or use a smaller diameter shaft to increase the clearance.

the exhaust crossover explains the need for a correction with a lift but what about the rear, why the need/recommendation for a new driveline in the rear. also, it seems that either the exhaust relocation OR new DS will resolve the geometry issues in the front - which is recommended and why?

I'm planning on just doing a new DS because I'd rather put the scratch into something that actually makes my ride stronger rather than just relocating and not enhancing the exhaust.

kjeeper10 03-20-2015 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allthefineprint (Post 17797369)
the exhaust crossover explains the need for a correction with a lift but what about the rear, why the need/recommendation for a new driveline in the rear. also, it seems that either the exhaust relocation OR new DS will resolve the geometry issues in the front - which is recommended and why? I'm planning on just doing a new DS because I'd rather put the scratch into something that actually makes my ride stronger rather than just relocating and not enhancing the exhaust.

Driveshafts have nothing to do with geometry.
2 door or 4 door ?

allthefineprint 03-20-2015 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 17814769)
Driveshafts have nothing to do with geometry.
2 door or 4 door ?

4 door.

kjeeper10 03-20-2015 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allthefineprint (Post 17815249)
4 door.

You have some leeway over a 2 door in the rear.
BUT.. Even with 8 control arms, the angle at the TC is severe once you get up near 4"
The factory driveshaft won't last too long.

kjeeper10 03-20-2015 11:44 AM

Something else to remember. Pinion angle up front takes importance over caster. Sometimes we have to give up on handling to keep the driveshaft happy.

mommymallcrawler 03-20-2015 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 17816305)
Something else to remember. Pinion angle up front takes importance over caster. Sometimes we have to give up on handling to keep the driveshaft happy.

AKA it may possibly drive like butt.

kjeeper10 03-20-2015 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler (Post 17816689)
AKA it may possibly drive like butt.

Yepppp

allthefineprint 03-23-2015 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 17816305)
Something else to remember. Pinion angle up front takes importance over caster. Sometimes we have to give up on handling to keep the driveshaft happy.

so the upper and lower control arms are used as much for control of the DS alignment - so, since I'm learning, are you shooting for a parallel DS alignment at the yokes?

is there any changing the castor angle if you get your DS dialed in?


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