Jeep Wrangler Forum banner

Auto vs. Manual - Technical Please

28K views 42 replies 29 participants last post by  ohioviper 
#1 ·
There are already a bunch of threads discussing which is "better" and whatnot, so please let's keep this about technical differences.

It's been a long time since I've driven an automatic, and I've never driven anything but a stick off road. I'm considering moving to an automatic when ordering a 2013, but I'm wondering what the non-obvious differences will be.

For the record, driving a stick is second nature at this point so I'm not worried about which is "better" from a "which is easier" standpoint, nor do I worry about rush hour traffic or crawling in a stick--I'm used to it. For day to day driving, I enjoy rowing my own gears.

What I'm wondering is how does the HSA compare to engine braking?
How do the crawl ratios compare in 4-lo?
For anyone who has driven sticks forever and then moved to an auto, what's it like driving off road with one in a variety of terrain?

An auto w/ remote start would be nice sometimes for the convenience, but at almost $1.5k I probably would stick with a stick if represented a technological step backwards are far as capability or durability. On the other hand, if it offers the technical advantage off road (along with the obvious convenience on-road) then it's well worth it.

If I missed a thread on point for this topic I apologize.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
With all due respect, I think crawl ratios and HSA's performance as compared to engine braking are somewhat objective facts.

I have no strong preference on stick vs. auto on a Jeep... so I'm looking for objective facts on both NOT personal preferences, which is what every other thread I've read has been.
 
#4 ·
kcraw said:
With all due respect, I think crawl ratios and HSA's performance as compared to engine braking are somewhat objective facts.

I have no strong preference on stick vs. auto on a Jeep... so I'm looking for objective facts on both NOT personal preferences, which is what every other thread I've read has been.
I think no matter how you look at it. It's still personal preference.
 
#5 ·
While I don't have any technical data to offer, I can say from experience that driving an auto after being used to a stick takes some getting used to.
Deceleration when letting off the gas is probably that most awkward thing for me. Off road is much easier as I can lean out the door and look at the rocks and line up better.
After jeeping in both stick and auto I think auto is more user friendly but I would be happy with either.
I'm sure you will be happy with which ever you choose.
 
#6 ·
While crawl ratios aren't exactly identical between the automatic and 6 speed, they will be similar. HSA = Hill start assist. Were you thinking "hill descent control"? I believe HDC is offered only on automatics. I learned to 4 wheel long before hill descent control came along.

You ask for objective facts but in the end you will still make a personal choice. :whistling:
 
#8 ·
:facepalm: Yeah, that's what I meant. I know it's some sort of braking system, but no idea how it works. I almost accidentally typed "breaking system" and that's part of what I wonder about. Is it generally reliable, and is it used the same way engine braking is used heading down a hill?

Also, thanks for the gear ratio link. Very useful.
 
#9 ·
Also, I appreciate the info. I know I'll have to make a decision based on preference, but I don't think the dealership is gonna let me take an auto Rubi for some rough off-roading to see how I like it, so I'm trying to make an educated guess.
 
#12 ·
Yeah, I meant HDC. Someone already called me out on that particular :facepalm:

As for crawl ratio... auto vs. manual doesn't matter, but first gear ratios do. So I'm answering my own question now thanks to the gear ratio link provided, but with 33" inch tires the final "crawl" ratio for the manual is 73.14:1 compared to 58.88:1 for the 5-speed auto.

First gear ratio is 4.46 and 3.59, respectively. Not a huge difference, until you start putting a multiplication symbol on either side of it. It's still a huge improvement over the 42RLE with a first gear of 2.8 resulting in a first gear final ratio of 45.92:1.

How important is crawl ratio? I don't know, guess we're back to personal preference. :whistling:
 
#13 ·
Just make sure to get 3.73 gears minimum when you order. I may be mistaken but I think some manual JK owners have pretty much lost 6th gear with 35s. Just don't get stuck with 3.21s (like moi).

FYI- 2012+ JKs have "manual" mode in the automatic. Clutchless shifting. When I am feeling Sporty-er- I drive my JK in manual mode and shift. Whenever I enter a California freeway- I pop it right back into auto. (The traffic is mind-boggling). You can crawl in 4LO by shifting, or keep it in automatic. My only complaint is that on a broad power-banded Jeep its hard to tell what gear you're in. You can drive around in a Jeep at 30 MPH in 1st and hardly notice. I find myself checking the dash alot to see where I am at since there isn't the "feel" of a shifter.
On the Hill Descent- its weird. It works, but its weird. The gas pedal and the brake operate totally without you. (You can of course still hit the brakes.). Like someone else said- its not necessary for crawling. Only used it once to see what it does. We have fire roads/trails here that take you up mountain peaks- its more handy on a long descent than anything else. Lest the stupid human ride the brakes too much and toast them.
 
#32 ·
Times 2 on "On the Hill Descent- its weird. It works, but its weird. The gas pedal and the brake operate totally without you". The first time I used it, I forgot that the button was pushed. I touched the brakes and it was hard and pulsating. Funny sounds, too.
 
#14 ·
From the Jeep site:

Hill Descent Control
Hill Descent Control with grade sensing allows a smooth and controlled hill descent on rough or slippery terrain without the driver needing to touch the brake pedal. This system applies the brakes to each wheel individually when needed to reduce forward motion while negotiating down steep grades.

That's why I'm slightly concerned. However, BLD seems to work pretty well. What I'm wondering from someone with experience is if BLD is to Lockers as HDC is to Engine Braking as far as performance, or if it is equally more equally effective.

The functionality of putting it into a lower gear versus pushing a button matters not to me, I only care how well it performs.
 
#16 ·
Also I have no idea how a torque converter comes into play with anything I said above, because I don't really know what I'm talking about it.
 
#21 ·
I can tell you about the daily driving aspect. I have a 6 speed 2009 JK. I love it because when I got it, it was much more responsive than the auto.

I have driven the Auto and Manual in the 3.6 liter on the 12 and I think the auto is very responsive, the 6 speed is even more responsive. I like speed and I chirped the damn tires on the sport I drove with the 6 speed.

No question for me. I like the control I have with a manual. Just my 2 cents.
 
#26 ·
The 2012s also have a 5 speed automatic versus a 4 speed in the prior models- and it does make it feel alot more responsive. (80 horsepower helps a little too). Its why I waited on the 2012 JK everyone hates so much.
I had an old manual TJ- and it was a ton of fun. If I didn't live in the top 10 worst cities for traffic- I'd have gotten a manual.
 
#23 ·
I have had a few jeeps.. most in sticks a few in auto's.. here is what I have experienced. A lower crawl ratio(higher number) in most cases will give you more control over the trail your own. That being said, with no fancy computer crap on the jeep just the driveline a stick will be better going down a hill than an auto with no other factors, going up a hill the auto will have a slight advantage as it will not stall out, and starting and stopping will be easier. You can limp home with a stick with an auto not so easy. Autos can die if they get to much mud or water sucked it.. a stick can press on. That being said.. I like my current automatic.
 
#25 ·
The auto will be running ~100 rpm faster on the interstate... potentially saving an expensive re-gear with 35"s, auto will have a better resale market when you sell, and you can shift gears in the water.

Manual's are fun to drive and get ~1mpg better at speed.

I'm trying to make the same decision myself and leaning towards the auto.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Even though many have mastered the manual transmission, the fact is doing rock crawling need percise control with one foot on the gas and the other on the brake. With the JK at least you have anti-stall but it is still a lot easier with an automatic not to mention the forward momentum of the anti-stall can't over come an initial vertical climb. Also the torque converter adds the needed torque in certain situations. Of course even if you stall, in most cases it's not the worse thing that could happen. When you are going over a large rock or boulder you need to have great control especially once you hit the top of the rock. The brake is needed as to not lurk over the rock while until you break past the top most portion of the rock you still need gas. Once over the break point you also need the slow crawl and control while the rear tire may still need the push over the rock and the front is coming down. Automatics just makes this a easier process. Their is a reason more serious rock crawlers use autos over manual transmissions. But saying that, if you like a manual then get one but the auto is a better crawler but not by a whole lot when you factor in experience.
 
#29 ·
Good point. I don't do a lot of rock crawling but some, and it is a little tricky with the JK trying modulate 3 pedals at once. I've also got an 07, so none of that HSA thing going on with my manual. In your experience, does the reduction in pedals outweigh slower crawl of the manual?

Also, anybody hear about anything like the Rubicrawler for the new engine/transmission?
 
#30 ·
Yeah, I was wondering how that came into play. I'll read your link, but any quick summary for how the torque converter changes the equation, so to speak?

Adding: Or any information on the torque converter in the new JK?
 
#31 ·
After my "no start" issues recently; I wouldn't have a JK with an auto. Period. With my manual, I can roll the Jeep down a hill, or get a pull, or have some help pushing and bump start it, but with an auto one is flat screwed if the starter won't engage.
 
#33 ·
In the name of science-I took off after work last night and hit the nearest fire road before it got dark. Plus I wanted to test her before the lift gets put on this weekend. Important research and all. Not exactly heavy stuff- not exactly crawling- but I tried the hill descent again on a gnarly side trail. It worked really well- but its so hard to "let" the Jeep do it by itself I just don't think its beneficial. I can't imagine relying on the HDC on a really steep or difficult maneuver.
I love my Jeep! Top down, sun setting through the canyons, gettin' dirty in my plain old stock JK. Still grinning like a fool on just a plain old fire road. Why does anyone drive anything else? :thumb:
 
#37 ·
My '11 was auto and my '12 is stick. For the trail I MUCH prefer the auto. The HDC is simply awesome. It'll hold you to slow speed in 1st, a little faster in 2nd, and 15 MPH in 3rd I believe. I really loved it. It's also great being able to just shift to drive and 4-low and then forget about the rest. Makes the trail so much more enjoyable.

The manual is good for the road...I'm seeing better mileage and I get to pick the gear for my needs to keep RPMs down and economy up. I like that.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top